(Topic ID: 154980)

PAPA 19 World Pinball Championships

By ninjadoug

6 years ago


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  • 113 posts
  • 47 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Snailman
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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There are 113 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
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#51 6 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

But this isn't a case of assholes spoiling... it's just people talking about what happened.

You thinking those are 2 diff'rent things is exactly the problem

#52 6 years ago

Talking about it is one thing, naming the thread after the winner is another. "PAPA 19 discussion" instead of "John Doe Wins PAPA 19". I can avoid info in one situation. In the other I might as well not bother watching the 10 hour video.

#53 6 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

You thinking those are 2 diff'rent things is exactly the problem

The problem is you can't tell the difference. They are very different.

Someone walking around a bookstore with a "Snape killed Dumbledore" T-shirt the day of the book's release = asshole

People posting on a pinball site about who just won a public pinball championship = normal conversation.

Expecting "everyone else" to self-censor, watch what they post and keep things under wraps is extremely selfish, not to mention unworkable. I mean really, you expect thousands of people to avoid mentioning a winner in public? For how long? It's not like people will even know when you have gotten around to watching it. If you want to keep yourself from seeing the results, keep yourself away from any place that might have them until you can watch. Very simple, and puts the onus on you (the laggard), where it belongs.

#54 6 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Expecting "everyone else" to self-censor, watch what they post and keep things under wraps is extremely selfish, not to mention unworkable.

Quoted from metallik:

I disagree that people should censor thread titles and watch what they're saying just because a few people haven't seen the big event yet.

This is the diff'rence...I don't expect people not to talk aboot whom won the second after it happens; I would.

The diff'rence is starting a thread called "Papa 19 (or whatever)" vs. "Congrats John dickinhiemer for winning papa 19."
See that's fucking selfish...people can't control themselves for 2 seconds and start a thread, then mention something inside it.
They have to be the first breaking "news." Which is why 5 people all start "code just dropped" threads an hour after the other 4 people did...instead of taking 2 seconds to simmer down and look on the front damn page.

#55 6 years ago
Quoted from desertT1:

Talking about it is one thing, naming the thread after the winner is another. "PAPA 19 discussion" instead of "John Doe Wins PAPA 19". I can avoid info in one situation. In the other I might as well not bother watching the 10 hour video.

If you DVR'd a football game, would you surf ESPN before watching it? Of course not. Take the same care with pinball matches...

#56 6 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

See that's fucking selfish...people can't control themselves for 2 seconds and start a thread, then mention something inside it.

I can't disagree more. What's "fucking selfish" is expecting thousands of people to self-censor themselves just because you can't be arsed to avoid pinball sites til you can watch the stream. See example to desertt1.. you'd never surf sports sites if you had a big game DVRd, so why expect anything different in pinball land? Solution is very simple - don't get on pinside til you watch the stream. Stop blaming everyone else.

#57 6 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Stop blaming everyone else.

I do really get your point and mostly agree with it. There's people at my work that LITERALLY still don't want Star Wars talked aboot. So I tell them I'm going to talk aboot it and tell them to leave...I think its a courtesy thing.
Same with the title of a thread...but whatever man; agree to disagree.

#58 6 years ago

On another note. I'm here at PAPA and so far it's been amazing. Playing so many titles that are on my want list that I would never get a chance to play, and ultimately see if they really stand the test of "try before I buy".

Finally got my hands on Ghostbusters too!

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#59 6 years ago

this spoiler argument is complete nonsense.

anyway I also went to PAPA and was really impressed. Ghostbusters was really good and the amount of games available is staggering. Everyone who worked there was really nice.

#60 6 years ago

A laughed so hard when Elwin pulled that off on GOT. Total disbelief of the commentators and what was seen on the display. Incredible to find such an exploit and, even more, to execute on a deciding finals game. The games compared he would probably had won even with these issue balanced out. Which is good.

#61 6 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Standings now showing Dave Stewart had a 14 billion GOT game? Is it me, or does this scoring issue/bug/whatever sound as bad as that one on WOZ that everyone tried to hide, or the Prime Directive 3 exploit from Stern Star Trek?

I don't think so. Not real familiar with the WOZ one but the PD3 one was easy to get to and could go on for ever. The GOT situation takes a lot of skill to achieve and will end if you drain your ball (can't keep restarting it). Because of this I actually don't feel like it is a bug. To me it almost feels like victory laps. If you can kick a specific modes ass bad enough you deserve to blow the game up. I personally like it and I hope they don't kill it all together in future releases.

On another note - Snailman, go kick some ASS and represent us Austin folks.

#62 6 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

The GOT situation takes a lot of skill to achieve and will end if you drain your ball (can't keep restarting it).

I watched some of the video this morning... making 20 center ramp shots doesn't seem that bad, for 20 million a pop. I frequently get to Hand on location here, ESPECIALLY if it's on default mode, not advanced (I do understand they're all playing on advanced so the scoring is out of whack by comparison, but even in regular mode, I've been able to pull 1.5 billion out.), but I didn't really understand the mechanics of the Hand mode I guess. So basically, you shoot all the lit shots, then hit the ram to relight and get 30 seconds of free shots to everything, and then rinse and repeat?

#63 6 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

I watched some of the video this morning... making 20 center ramp shots doesn't seem that bad, for 20 million a pop. I frequently get to Hand on location here, ESPECIALLY if it's on default mode, not advanced (I do understand they're all playing on advanced so the scoring is out of whack by comparison, but even in regular mode, I've been able to pull 1.5 billion out.), but I didn't really understand the mechanics of the Hand mode I guess. So basically, you shoot all the lit shots, then hit the ram to relight and get 30 seconds of free shots to everything, and then rinse and repeat?

Assuming you've played Stark before HOTK, the 20 seconds of free time exist. Once you've gone through 2 super jackpots, 2 free times, and have collected the hurry-up, that's when the glitch comes in. Free times post hurry-up collect are worth those insane amounts.

#64 6 years ago
Quoted from WaddleJrJr:

the glitch comes in

Yeaaaaaah....after watching the rest of that play out, there's no way on earth that scoring is intentional by Stern. 700+ million and 1.1 billion shots? You've completely negated the point of playing the game for anything else at all at that point, for tournaments. Either you get to it and have a chance to win, or you don't, and you're guaranteed a loss? I refuse to believe this isn't a glitch.

#65 6 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Yeaaaaaah....after watching the rest of that play out, there's no way on earth that scoring is intentional by Stern. 700+ million and 1.1 billion shots? You've completely negated the point of playing the game for anything else at all at that point, for tournaments. Either you get to it and have a chance to win, or you don't, and you're guaranteed a loss? I refuse to believe this isn't a glitch.

They got up to 2.2 billion a shot by the end.

#66 6 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Yeaaaaaah....after watching the rest of that play out, there's no way on earth that scoring is intentional by Stern. 700+ million and 1.1 billion shots? You've completely negated the point of playing the game for anything else at all at that point, for tournaments. Either you get to it and have a chance to win, or you don't, and you're guaranteed a loss? I refuse to believe this isn't a glitch.

Pump and dump, maybe. Match play or limited entries, I wish the player luck that is going just for that.

You're making it sound to easy on a tournament prepped game. Look at TPF, less than about 5 people made it to HOTK at all and I'm sure that's the same at nationals where very few people made it that far.

The problem PAPA had was they left the LOL on and set the tilt to allow for some pretty aggressive saves. You tighten that tilt and you make that LOL setting for one ball per game and you're not going to have it happen to often. I still can't believe they have more than one LOL on the PAPA game. That to me is the biggest reason we are seeing the scores we are. Can't give the best players in the world that many extra balls or they will blow a game up.

It's like the 1 billion+ shot in Batman DK. It's there but very few people can get that on command. If they can do it then they deserve to win.

#67 6 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

The problem PAPA had was they left the LOL on and set the tilt to allow for some pretty aggressive saves. You tighten that tilt and you make that LOL setting for one ball per game and you're not going to have it happen to often. I still can't believe they have more than one LOL on the PAPA game. That to me is the biggest reason we are seeing the scores we are. Can't give the best players in the world that many extra balls or they will blow a game up.

Absolutely this. I am stunned this PAPA GOT has that loose of a tilt and the LOL lanes on anything other than once per game.

#68 6 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

pretty aggressive saves.

Right...he was shaking the machine a LOT in that video, I felt. It's pretty funny to me when someone says a strategy or exploit is only valid for qualifying. My opinion on the matter is always going to be "go big or go home" because you never know when the other guy is going to blow it up, especially if you play in our areas, with all the guys that consistently don't suck? No way...I'm not leaving a big hole to be exploited by an opportunistic opponent. If I defeat myself and don't execute....fine, but at least I tried to make the maximum effort, which is all I can ask of myself.

I've tried the BDK trick too. It's easier than this, IMO, but I suck at shooting right orbits for some reason. Have the same problem with AC/DC and not being able to change songs.

The GOT at Nationals was *brutal*. Just absolutely brutal. Everything open wide, no ball save, and just fast fast fast. Still in disbelief I lost a game where neither of us ended up over 10 million, and lost by literally *any shot on the playfield*.

#69 6 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

On another note - Snailman, go kick some ASS and represent us Austin folks.

Thanks. I'll do my best next week.
I wish I could have made my schedule work out to attend PAPA19, too.

#70 6 years ago

Already 94 people competing in PAPA19 A division thus far. It's poised to go over 100.

And Classics I from yesterday.... I think it was around 180 people that competed. On 12 pins. Awesome growth in # of competitors!
But those must have been some crazy lines to wait your turn.

#71 6 years ago

Are there many people that exclusively try and fail at makin A each year even though they qualify for lower divisions? I've never played PAPA, but if I went, I would always try for A. I'm sure I wouldn't come close, but i would want to see how much I could improve each year against the worlds best.

At first I totally agreed with playing in the lowest division that allows you to play, but now I feel like I would like it better to just take shot at A and see what happens.

I guess I would rather fail to qualify for A than win B or C. I'm ranked close to 3,000 so I might even be allowed to play in D haha.

Also, I wouldn't spend more than 100-150 in entries either.

#72 6 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

I've never played PAPA, but if I went, I would always try for A. I'm sure I wouldn't come close, but i would want to see how much I could improve each year against the worlds best.

I guess....or you can see how not close you'd come in B division. papa is HARRRRRD man...like insane. When I went I walked in the door it was like the beginning of Kingpin. I grabbed some dudes slice of pizza and ate it, walked up to WhirlWind and blew...I don't know 20+ million or something and got a $100 bonus...then it was all down hill. It really has little to do with other players honestly...the qualifying is just so brutal. I chose B over C because I liked the bank more...friend of similar level to me entered C and won a giant awesome trophy...so yeah.

EDIT: You can't trust those game there...DW was in the bank which is a slam dunk...I don't know if I made 3 loops the entire weekend. End of qualifying frenzy with people trying to make the cut DW was sitting totally open...no one wanted to play it.

#73 6 years ago

It's fun to compete. Paying $25 a pop to have virtually no chance of making the playoffs is not my idea of fun. That's one reason I didn't go this year. Other reason is I missed making the circuit final just by a hair. I've gone to many Papa's, maybe 6 or 7, but this was the first year I would've been forced into A div based on WPPR ranking.

I like what Josh Sharpe said about A div qualifying at Papa19. "Closest thing to work that a pro player will ever do in a competition "

#74 6 years ago

Yeah trophies are sweet, and they are like 90% of why I like to play in competitions. The money is cool, but the pride and trophy is cooler. I guess if the bank for B or C was amazing for me I wouldn't be able to pass it up, but A bank this year is definitely the bank that I would want.

#75 6 years ago

If it was a standard tournament style, A all the way dude...but the bank game play is such a bitch. You'd have $100 in your little paw, you'd blow the first game and that qualifying chance is over in 120 seconds... only $75 left

#76 6 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

If it was a standard tournament style, A all the way dude...but the bank game play is such a bitch. You'd have $100 in your little paw, you'd blow the first game and that qualifying chance is over in 120 seconds... only $75 left

So the guys that qualify for A, thy are putting an amazing score up on every game on their ticket? That's impressive. I figured there would be maybe 3-4 big scores on them, but not all 5.

I'm not even sure I would like any level of PAPA, just want to play with the best. I guess pinburgh is just the best way to go in that respect.

#77 6 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

So the guys that qualify for A, thy are putting an amazing score up on every game on their ticket? That's impressive. I figured there would be maybe 3-4 big scores on them, but not all 5.

Well the ones that are going to end up qualifying do.

Believe me it kept me up at night thinking whether to go A or B. I talked so some big names when I got there, almost ashamed to tell them I entered B. First thing they said "you're stupid, you've never been here before you should have entered C."
*cue the Larry David music*

#78 6 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Right...he was shaking the machine a LOT in that video, I felt. It's pretty funny to me when someone says a strategy or exploit is only valid for qualifying. My opinion on the matter is always going to be "go big or go home" because you never know when the other guy is going to blow it up, especially if you play in our areas, with all the guys that consistently don't suck? No way...I'm not leaving a big hole to be exploited by an opportunistic opponent. If I defeat myself and don't execute....fine, but at least I tried to make the maximum effort, which is all I can ask of myself.
I've tried the BDK trick too. It's easier than this, IMO, but I suck at shooting right orbits for some reason. Have the same problem with AC/DC and not being able to change songs.
The GOT at Nationals was *brutal*. Just absolutely brutal. Everything open wide, no ball save, and just fast fast fast. Still in disbelief I lost a game where neither of us ended up over 10 million, and lost by literally *any shot on the playfield*.

You're a better player than me but I think you should really rethink that strategy. Look at the tournament and play to it's strengths. For PAPA champs all you had to do was not be last to move on. Why go for the home run in that situation? I don't recall anyone ever playing as GJ which would be the "home run" strategy. For pump and dump qualifying I agree 100%, you gotta go for broke but if you only get one or 2 plays on a game to qualify you have to first protect against that house game and then work towards maxing out the scoring. You know where I play so you know there are a lot of really good players that can blow up games here too (Colin, Garret, Mark, Thomas, John, Robert, I could go on). Anyone can blow a game up just as likely as they can have a house game. I'm only speaking of the situation at hand which was this PAPA event.

For instance, knowing the scores already posted on that GOT in Vegas I was surprised that some people didn't go as Tyrel then go for stark first. Start Stark and nail that ramp to max it out while increasing the multipliers then scoring a couple hundred million with little risk to losing the ball.

As it relates to GOT. All you have to do in order to have a chance at this exploit is make sure to bring Stark in with HOTK. With GOT you aren't "leaving a big hole to be exploited by an opportunistic opponent" unless you don't try to carry Stark into HOTK. Outside of all that it's all about gameplay.

Since the Masters is on I'll use it as another example of this. On whole 15 (Par 5 with water by the green) you don't see everyone going for the green in 2 every time. The player will look at the situation and look at the pro's and con's of going for it and dunking the ball in the water or making it on the green.

#79 6 years ago

PAPA isn't like the World Poker Tour where some unknown player can come into A and shock the World and win it all. Unless you are highly ranked and are forced into A I would stick to the B or C bank. Has anyone from outside the top 50 IFPA rankings ever won PAPA before?

#80 6 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

At first I totally agreed with playing in the lowest division that allows you to play, but now I feel like I would like it better to just take shot at A and see what happens.
I guess I would rather fail to qualify for A than win B or C. I'm ranked close to 3,000 so I might even be allowed to play in D haha.

My thought on this is that you aren't really playing with the "A" players unless you qualify. I think the real experience growth is in the brackets phase when you play head to head. At 3000 IFPA ranking I think you are doing yourself an injustice by going for A right now unless your ranking is just because you only play in one event a year and your ranking doesn't represent your skill. If you want to learn from some good players and still have a chance to qualify I'd go B at the most.

#81 6 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

My thought on this is that you aren't really playing with the "A" players unless you qualify. I think the real experience growth is in the brackets phase when you play head to head. At 3000 IFPA ranking I think you are doing yourself an injustice by going for A right now unless your ranking is just because you only play in one event a year and your ranking doesn't represent your skill. If you want to learn from some good players and still have a chance to qualify I'd go B at the most.

You're right. You're not playing WITH the best players until you qualify, but you're certainly competing against them. I think now that I've thought about it a little more my decision will be 95% based on the games in the bank. If the bank is all games I know backwards and forwards and I'm confident on all them, that is my best chance at qualifying, not the players that are also playing those games. Idk, it's very interesting how they run this tournament though. Cannot wait to see some of the stream later this weekend.

#82 6 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

If the bank is all games I know backwards and forwards and I'm confident on all them, that is my best chance at qualifying, not the players that are also playing those games.

That's logical thinking, but completely incorrect
You'll ALWAYS have a better chance of qualifying/winning C.

#83 6 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

That's logical thinking, but completely incorrect

Maybe. I am just spitballing here cause I don't get to be there this weekend and that sucks haha.

#84 6 years ago

Having a great time at PAPA!

IMG_20160408_123415429_(resized).jpg

#85 6 years ago

My first PAPA, two years ago, I entered C, the lowest division at the time. Just barely qualified but ended up finishing 4 in the finals. Missed last year, but going tomorrow morning and will have to play B (at least), so I'll probably get stuffed. But expect to have loads of fun.

My strategy is to play all 10 games on the first two tickets to get a feel for the machines. Then pick my five and go for it (assuming I didn't have a monster run on one of the first two tickets). If I manage to post a solid bank, at that point I will keep playing tickets on the five machines not on the solid bank to bring down the other entries and keep my solid one afloat...

#86 6 years ago

The code is 1.26 and lol is set to factory 1 per game. If you see more than 1 than it was either a pop award or another bug!

There are 2 hotk bugs. The first is the huge scoring bump for stArk free shooting once you beat hotk. The 2nd and the reason why papa is now rebooting got after every game is that the bug sticks. So the next player on the next game can get to hotk and the first shot during stark free shooting will pick up where the previous player on the pervious game left it. They enacted it after Dave's 15 billion game where just the first round of stark scoring got him 14B.

#87 6 years ago

Nice. At least they're on it.

#88 6 years ago

Interesting comparason on how to qualify. Both player achieved approximately the same. One with 5 solid games. One with two blowouts and two bust. Marcus' best game equals Andys worst in terms of value. Both will do.

http://www.papa.org/live/playerIndex.php?disp=player&pid=220
http://www.papa.org/live/playerIndex.php?disp=player&pid=207

#89 6 years ago

So, no stream yet and the the finals should have started.. anyone happen to know when it will start?

#90 6 years ago
Quoted from Edenecho:

So, no stream yet and the the finals should have started.. anyone happen to know when it will start?

I don't think it has started. The bracket has always been updated pretty quickly in the past, and no games have been chosen yet.

http://www.papa.org/live/playerIndex.php?bracketId=114

#91 6 years ago
Quoted from LOTR_breath:

It's fun to compete. Paying $25 a pop to have virtually no chance of making the playoffs is not my idea of fun. That's one reason I didn't go this year

My first PAPA this year, I have to play in A. I'm realistic about my skills, I'm ok but not in the league of most of these top guys in A.

When you see great players like Lyman at 57, and Trent at 33, you know you ain't gonna make the grade.

I'll have one good game then the next one is a stinker .. You need to be really consistent to do well at this format, and I'm not. To give you the concept of what it's like (if you haven't done PAPA) go to an arcade or your buddies house (not your house!), play 5 different games in a row and get GC on every game. Pretty hard to do.

Some of these guys were pumping in the entries. Josh was telling me last year someone pumped in 60+ entries to A and still didn't make it.

Personally, I only played about 5 or 6 ... Two on Thursday, then I got the flu so I didn't play much after that (it was -5c when we left last night) Had another two entries yesterday but it wasn't happening. No point throwing $100s of bucks at it when it will never happen. Had a good game on Dirty Harry circa 580m, bad game on Avengers which I usually play well on, then 3 SDTS on Party Zone .. Void! All between coughing fits.

Highlights of the weekend were Danni (my 13 year old daughter) finishing 7th in Womans, and 2nd, 3rd and 2nd in Juniors. I got 9th in Split Flipper, just missing the playoffs by one place, and 41st in Classics 1 (nearly 180 competitors!)

Downlight was getting the flu. Not that it realistically made much difference.

rd

#92 6 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

My first PAPA this year, I have to play in A. I'm realistic about my skills, I'm ok but not in the league of most of these top guys in A.
When you see great players like Lyman at 57, and Trent at 33, you know you ain't gonna make the grade.
I'll have one good game then the next one is a stinker .. You need to be really consistent to do well at this format, and I'm not. To give you the concept of what it's like (if you haven't done PAPA) go to an arcade or your buddies house (not your house!), play 5 different games in a row and get GC on every game. Pretty hard to do.
Some of these guys were pumping in the entries. Josh was telling me last year someone pumped in 60+ entries to A and still didn't make it.
Personally, I only played about 5 or 6 ... Two on Thursday, then I got the flu so I didn't play much after that (it was -5c when we left last night) Had another two entries yesterday but it wasn't happening. No point throwing $100s of bucks at it when it will never happen. Had a good game on Dirty Harry circa 580m, bad game on Avengers which I usually play well on, then 3 SDTS on Party Zone .. Void! All between coughing fits.
Highlights of the weekend were Danni (my 13 year old daughter) finishing 7th in Womans, and 2nd, 3rd and 2nd in Juniors. I got 9th in Split Flipper, just missing the playoffs by one place, and 41st in Classics 1 (nearly 180 competitors!)
Downlight was getting the flu. Not that it realistically made much difference.
rd

FYI: Latest information from the US Centers for Disease Control site:

Flu_map_(resized).JPG

#93 6 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

FYI: Latest information from the US Centers for Disease Control site:

Flu_map_(resized).JPG

US Virgin Islands look like the place to be.

rd

#94 6 years ago

https://www.twitch.tv/papatvpinball

Stream is up, games are going.

#95 6 years ago

I made it to papa for the first time yesterday just to play some pins and take in the atmosphere. Im not a good enough and certainly not consistant enough to compete. But i brought my father-in-law and daughter along. We had a few hours and spent 40 bucks in tokens.
Daughter really liked iron man and spiderman pins so lucky me i may be able to play that angle into getting a new pin! I think my TSPP or TFLE may have to go first though!

Hope to be back next time!

#96 6 years ago

Very exciting finals!
Only a shame noone had the balls to pick Baywatch, would be cool to see it in a finals and see how it played. It must have played better than WH2O.

#97 6 years ago

SPOILER ALERT.........

......................

............................

..............................

Robert Gagno is getting a banner in the rafters! Congrats to Robert!

#99 6 years ago

#5, so mean. Surely just a friendly ribbing, but thank goodness for Pinburgh.

#100 6 years ago

Gene takes some great shots.

rd

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