(Topic ID: 100579)

PAPA 17 >> what a blast

By Whysnow

6 years ago

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  • 338 posts
  • 71 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by robotronjohn
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders


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    #87 6 years ago

    My thoughts.

    1) Super bands. LOVE them. I honestly feel like I get a better flow when they are on the games.

    2) "Oh, one other suggestion before I forget: If modifications to game settings or bizarre physical bastardizations are performed, it would be nice if they were listed on a note on the machine. Players weren't told ahead of time about the disabled magnet on TAF or the odd WOZ settings."

    I can't say this enough "EXPECT PAPA to bastardize the games" This is the world championships. I always walk up to the games and look and see what they've done (post removal, rubber removal, eb's turned off, etc). I learned that quickly when I started in 2008. To quote "these games are not set up like the ones in your basement"

    3) sandbagging. I've heard this OVER and OVER again. I totally agree with the guy from Coast to Coast. And I've expressed it to Mark and Doug many times over the years. There are and continue to be sandbaggers in C. Logic? "I've never won the money in C, so I won't move up to B" I played in C for four years. NEVER qualified. But I voluntarily moved up to B last year. I'm not even ranked in the top 1000. My thoughts are that I play in league and I play in tournaments, so I'm not a novice and don't truly belong in C. I'm just not as talented as some of the other players. The games really are not set up much differently between B and C. And anyone who moved up this year can tell you that. They end up setting them up that way because they know there are sandbaggers in C. So, it hurts the novices that come in to play. 299 players that could have played in B if you go by the IFPA ruling. And if you look, I'm betting there were a lot of players outside of that 399 number that played in B. And there were players outside of the 100 number that played in A. I can name at least 3 off the top of my head.

    PAPA is about challenging yourself. I'd far rather finish 85th in B, than 98th in C.

    As always, thanks to the PAPA crew, the volunteers and the numerous people it takes to run the tournament. Looking forward to PAPA 18 and Replayfx!

    #98 6 years ago

    I know someone who never qualified in B, but chose to move up to A when he couldn't qualify. The second year he was in A? He qualified. He finished 10th overall that year. And the disparity between B and A is HUGE.

    #113 6 years ago
    Quoted from TaylorVA:

    The only issue with C division, imho, is how PAPA outlines it in the criteria to participate in the division. Just drop the part about players tournament and league experience. I just think it can be disappointing to people that drop the coin to go there thinking they will be playing with inexperienced tournament players just to find out they are playing with mid 400 IFPA ranked players which are certainly experienced. Don't suggest a restriction that is not actually used so people know what the actual skill level is. That is all.

    Sadly, it's hard for them to police it. But they have a good staff that is willing to listen to suggestions, which is awesome. I told someone on Sunday that if they have an issue with a ruling, wait a couple of days to let the "frustration" settle, then email Mark and explain what the ruling was and why they think it's wrong. It's so hard to plan on every possible thing that could happen.

    And take the time to skim through the rulebook if you get a chance. You learn a lot. I scorekeep at PAPA and when I am a player, I sometimes know what they will probably rule. Plus, our league models it's rules after the PAPA rulebook.

    #135 6 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Why is it that so many hot dog players here have this attitude?
    It is so odd because all of the A players I actually interacted with at PAPA were extremely nice and actually had the ability to have a constructive conversation rather than only seeing things through there A player eyes and always talking down to those that are not on the same level. They also were more than happy to share tips and tricks.
    Is it just the anonymity of pinside that brings out the ego?

    the biggest complainers can usually be found in the C division. I wonder why that is....

    #140 6 years ago
    Quoted from silver_spinner:

    and for playoffs sake, since we only get 30 seconds per practice per machine (which is really less in actual ball play time), i highly request notes on each game telling if ball saves on or not, how many tilt warnings , magnets off taf, and any other thing we should know. playoffs there is no time to adjust or figure things out while playing as each ball is critical and strategy needs be figured out with knowledge of certain things in advance. i had no idea about taf magnets being off until ball 2 of the 2nd time i played it in the playoffs. if i had known that in advance i would have played different.

    If you're a regular tournament player, you'll find that most tournaments don't give you a chance to warm up before the playoffs. PAPA is one of the few places that gives you a thirty second warm up. And in most tournament settings, ball saves are turned off and tilts are tightened. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but I've played at quite a few tournaments over the last couple of years and this is becoming the standard. Kind of like using the virtual locks on Transformers or Xmen (which I hate). The number of Tilt warnings should be standard though. I don't think I've ever seen PAPA set them up other than the danger, danger, TILT. And they try to let you know if Tilt ends game (Target Pool). There are some settings (like the magnet) that it would be nice if they did let you know. But I don't think they're obligated to.

    #162 6 years ago
    Quoted from Zaxxis:

    There doesn't need to be a D division. If you are new and want to wet your whistle when it comes to competitive pinball, there is a little tournament called Pinburgh.
    I use to be on the bandwagon for a D division and I am sure some will think it's my "A division attitude", but since it's the WORLD PINBALL CHAMPIONSHIPS, I am not sure PAPA needs to spend more energy trying to get "one more new person" to attend PAPA WC when they do plenty to try to attract new players via Pinburgh, PAPA Circuit, ReplayFx, all of the videos, etc, etc.

    I honestly think that Replay, PAPA, etc wants to grow pinball. hence the circuit, hence PAPAtv, hence the changes to PAPA this year. If you don't grow it and bring new players in, then 10 years from now, there will be no PAPA.

    I think a novice division isn't a bad thing. because you want to bring those new players in and give them the experience of competing in a major tournament. And feel like they have a chance to succeed. Otherwise, they'll play one year, go "this isn't worth it, I have NO chance" and they won't ever go back.

    That's my same argument for a women's division. Not that I don't think I can't compete with the men. But look at the last 10 years of PAPA. How many women have actually qualified in A, B and C? Not too many. I see lots of ladies coming in with their significant other, but they don't want to compete against all the guys. They get bored of wandering around the facility or end up going to tour Pittsburgh or hang out in a hotel. Heck, that's why I scorekeep. If you give them a division, they might feel more comfortable competing against each other, initially. If there were a womens division, you would be drawing new people into the sport, who down the road, may feel more comfortable entering C or B, once they get that tournament experience under their belt and feel more comfortable with their skills. I think that's the logic for the juniors division. To bring in the younger generation. If you don't appeal to them, again, PAPA, pinball, etc, will die in 10 years.

    #189 6 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    pictues >>You seem to be stuck on this being the PINBALL WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS and thinking that is actually a big deal for anyone besides the A division.

    Yeah, I think I have to disagree with this statement. If people didn't care, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I know many people over the years refused to move up to the next division because they have never "won the money in B or C" and felt that they didn't have to or "weren't ready for the next level" (case in point, the guy who commented here that has qualified three times in B in the last four years). The championships are just as big of a deal to the other divisions. The year my husband finished second in C, he walked around saying "I was the first place US winner in C." (he lost to a guy from Canada and yes, he was joking) but that second place meant a lot to him. He has all his PAPA hardware displayed because he's proud of it.

    We need to clone Virginia so she can just scorekeep in all divisions

    And you don't want more than one of me running around PAPA. LOL. Kudos to all the people willing to help out at PAPA. Even those 2 hour shifts can be tough! You guys put us through our paces!

    #238 6 years ago
    Quoted from movingpictures:

    That's just a tad silly, don't ya think?
    Someone unable to qualify in C for 3 years should move up to a more skilled division?
    Just because they have experience in failing?

    I believe I said this earlier and I'll say it again. My husband never qualified B. He was there for at least three years. He finally said the heck with it and moved up to A. He qualified the second year he was there. So moving up isn't always a taboo thing to do.

    The problem with C is the sheer number of competitors. You may not be qualifying because there are 150 - 200 competitors in C. And I believe C2C said on his podcast, most of them don't void their entries, so you're competing against ridiculous scores. You might find you have a better chance in B. Less competitors. And the games aren't set up majorly different. I maintain, had I thrown in a second entry, I probably would have finished higher than last. And I'm ranked 1193 at IFPA. I'm not required to play in B by PAPA rules. But I play in a league. I also play in many tournaments and I feel I don't belong in C, despite my ranking, because I am experienced.

    And why not challenge yourself. Play B next year. The worst that can happen is that you don't qualify. Which you don't seem to be doing in C either.

    #239 6 years ago
    Quoted from Newsom:

    Helena Walter won B a few years ago.

    I believe she won at Pinburgh, I don't think she won PAPA, but I could be wrong. And I didn't say they didn't qualify. I forget what the statistics are. Someone actually did them as research for a justification for a women's division.

    #320 6 years ago
    Quoted from DrJoe:

    Likely to keep a bunch of B and C division players from trying an "A" ticket at 10:00 p.m. on Saturday since they didn't make the cut in the div the played in all weekend. All of the divisions are crowded with players Saturday night trying to make the cut and to have a large in-rush of players trying an "A" ticket last-minute prevents those that played "A" all weekend from being able to get on a machine.

    This was put into place a few years ago when that pretty much happened. A few players weren't going to make it in their division, so they said "hey! Why not go play A" at like the very last minute.

    If any of you watched the live tutorial last night on PAPAtv, Mark talked about rulings, etc, when someone asked him what players could do to make things go smoother for the tournament staff. check it out. I think it would help a lot with some of the questions you guys have been having.

    It's archived on Twitch.

    #334 6 years ago
    Quoted from Zaxxis:

    Actually, the have been people that have moved down in the past, but I am not sure if any happened in recent years.

    From the PAPA website:

    "A player may choose to move to a higher skill division, automatically voiding all entries in lower divisions (no refunds are provided), but no player may move to a lower division without special permission from tournament officials."

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