PAPA 17 >> what a blast

Have to agree on ditching the super bands, but I might point out that what you may view as a weird kickout is possibly intentional in order to make games as hard as possible. Consistent games allow players to get too comfortable and result in marathon games. Check out the A division TZ scores for an example of what happens with consistent "happy" kickouts. You basically needed to hit 900M to not have a bad score, and that was largely due to a slot machine kickout that required zero effort to safely trap on either flipper. Unless the kickouts were literally untouchable (maybe they were on a C bank game; I never got to play those as I was in A), they were quite likely not a result of a lack of consideration. The A division WCS had its Final Draw scoop bent out to the left as far as possible to prevent players from safely backhanding the MB start on that game.

I had an amazing time at PAPA 17 and it was super fun to hang out with everyone again. I even managed to qualify in A this year (unlike last year where I got knocked out by one point by the last ticket submitted in qualifying), although I completely shit the bed on Sunday losing by 60k on Metallica and failing to advance to the round of 16. Perhaps my only suggestion in the future would be to either pay down to 24th or revert to only taking 16 finalists. I have no real desire to make money playing pinball but when you spend $200 or more throughout the weekend trying to qualify it would sure be nice to get a little of that money back for making the cut regardless of how you do on Sunday. Maybe if I wasn't a broke college student I wouldn't care, but it is slightly weird to make the finals of a "pump and dump" format tournament and not get anything for doing so. Anyway, I really enjoyed myself this year and can't wait to come back for PAPA 18!

Oh, one other suggestion before I forget: If modifications to game settings or bizarre physical bastardizations are performed, it would be nice if they were listed on a note on the machine. Players weren't told ahead of time about the disabled magnet on TAF or the odd WOZ settings. Kind of lame to walk up to a game and do something you usually do only to have it not work the way you expect it to.

OK, this post turned out more negative sounding than I meant for it to. PAPA is truly the happiest place on earth and I have no qualms with blowing tons of money to fly all the way from Seattle to Pittsburgh twice a year to visit. I strongly encourage anyone who has the chance to at least come and check out PAPA once, regardless of how much tournament experience they have. It's like nothing else you'll ever see.

Who won the A?

@SCpins: Cayle George won.

PAPA really is a blast. For me, I take off Friday from work, bring my oldest son and we just play pinball until our hands hurt. It's one of the few times a year we get to play machines other than our own. We try to play machines that we've never played before, which right now is still a lot of them. It's a great atmosphere with friendly people and a clean restroom . If you've never been you should try to get there at least once.

Thanks for the feedback guys! Glad you had a great time.

Some games are set up a certain way to play more difficult. Also keep in mind that as games get played, the way they play can change significantly. Coils get heated up, games get dirty... etc. We will see significant changes in game play from Thursday morning to Saturday night on some games (see Fish Tales).

The TAF that was in C division was also the one we used for the A finals. I know we did not touch the scoop on TAF from Saturday night into Sunday morning, so perhaps the kickouts you were seeing were from a tired coil?

Don't forget it is a mechanical device and such things will occur from time to time no matter how hard we prepare. After all, 'the ball is wild'.

Had an amazing time at PAPA - my hats off to all who make this happen.

Watching the A finals was especially cool and unique - how often are you in a large crowd watching competitive pinball, cheering every multiball activation, oohing and aahing at every wild save?

I had a couple of thoughts on how to make watching A finals even more awesome and like other big spectator sport events:

1) A big screen dedicated to the match scores, with the current player highlighted; and another big screen dedicated to just the DMD of the current game (so we can all see the game scores). This would really help give the play more context and drama. I realize the DMD was visible on part of one screen on one side of the bank, but you couldn't really make out the scores unless you were right next to it. I also realize we could look up match scores on our phones. But I think making these details more up-front would really add to the spectator experience.

2) Maybe even a PA announcement of each player on their turn (they could pick their walk-up music like in baseball...probably too cheesy? )

3) The audio of the current game piped into speakers and audible to the crowd.

Thoughts on the feasibility/advisability of these?

On that TAF, this must have been the case. On Sunday, I think every kickout was a simply hold up right flipper for a consistent cradle.

I can't echo this one enough. I heard from other players -- who weren't even in the first round -- about the TAF disabled magnet... but not until after my second ball of TAF, one of which that I spent much of Seance waiting for the magnet to turn off before shooting at the ramp. It sure would have been nice to know about the disabled magnet, and it seemed that other players were aware of this -- but it certainly wasn't through a posting on the pin's glass or some announcement made to all players.

>2) Maybe even a PA announcement of each player on their turn (they could pick their walk-up music like in baseball...probably too cheesy? )

This is a great idea but probably only for the final final round because other games are happening at the same time

My only minor critique was that I couldn't hear many of the games. I'm a pinball dum-dum (art/sound/lights) & could care less about competitive play so I was slightly bummed to have traveled 8 hrs + (with that horrible traffic on the way in on Thursday) to walk up to a game of Cyclopes and not be able to hear those charming 80's sounds. Anyone who has been to Logan Arcade in Chicago knows I like my games LOUD (still trying to find the sweet spot in the back room). Anyhow, I was there to play games and drink Straub in the parking lot, both of which I did until I couldn't see straight. With only one small complaint, I left happy and hungover on Saturday afternoon on my way to do some camping in Ohio. I even made my girlfriend listen to the finals on the car radio as I watched on my phone on the way back to Chicago on Sunday. I caught her laughing several times at the commentary and reactions. Great job, broadcast crew!

I'm sad that PAPA is moving to March as I really enjoy the tailgating and do not enjoy driving in the winter. Looking forward to seeing what Replay will have to offer. At the very least, Pittsburgh is a great town with incredible pancakes (Pamela's/Dor-Stop). That alone will draw me back next summer.

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What the hell is that ^

Something worth driving 8 hrs for that has nothing to do with pinball and everything to do with Pittsburgh. Here's something to say "what the hell???" to. Ladies and gentlemen, Beto's Pizza...

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Ditto. Not sure how the hell I missed ya! I was the Thursday night, Friday all day, and for a couple hours Saturday afternoon.

I'm sure there's probably a reason for it, but I was disappointed that none of the qualifying rounds were broadcast. I remember there being a lot more coverage in the past couple years, but maybe I'm thinking of pinburgh..

I watched pretty much all of the Sunday broadcast (except for a nap), and loved it. It's funny that pinball has risen above baseball as one of my favorite spectator sports..

Color of superbands doesn't indicate anything, purely cosmetic, and they don't come in multiple durometers. You're thinking of Saturn Bands, which do. So they should have been consistent from machine to machine.

but inconsistency is the same for all players , not one over the other .

agreed

I watched the finals on Twitch. Wish I was there. Still up in the air on Pinball Expo.

Inconsistent flipper feel from game to game means that the results of the tournament are measuring, in part, players' ability to adjust to each game. Sounds fine to me.

I don't think luck played much of a factor in deciding the result. Look who qualified and advanced in A division. There were alot of very big names. Are you surprised that Cayle George won? I'm not.

Obviously it's a challenging tournament. If you remove some of the challenge, you're removing some of what makes this tournament special. Lightening flippers in place of regular ones? Check. Center posts removed? Check. I'm sure you'd hate those things, too, if you had to deal with them. Yet, the challenge is the same for everyone.

I really think of it like playing sports in rain/wind/snow. It's easier to win when you remember that both teams have to deal with the conditions, and they don't exist for the sole purpose of putting you at a disadvantage.

Probably not. The current level of challenge, as fate would have it, is just about right.

I don't think making the games easier will allow for those players to improve to the next level. My opinion doesn't carry as much credibility as I have never been to the event. Just my two cents (possibly less).

If anyone has complaints or recommendations, be sure to contact someone at PAPA directly. Posting here doesn't always mean it will be read.

For what it's worth, PAPA won't be standardizing its flipper rubbers anytime soon. Flipper rubbers are a tool in game setup, and standardization would reduce our ability to challenge players in a variety of ways.

It's cool. I also respect your opinion and have struggled with this decision several times, but in the end, I prefer to reserve the right to make decisions based on specific games, rather than blanket preferences. I readily admit your argument has its positives, but it's just not something we're prepared to do right now. The other side has positives as well.

In the end, there were fewer than 7 games out of 75 that had "non-standard" flipper rubbers, so it's not like it's a wide swath of games that got that treatment.

I don't find superbands inconsistent personally. Different? Sure. But they play the same every game. It's not like they randomly become harder or softer in between balls.

I'd like to know what was up with that TAF in Division C. That "thing" kicked my ass twice, and I bailed on it for my third ticket. I almost always get multiball on that game, but on one game I actually scored just over 3 million...and 2 million of that was a skill shot. I heard a lot of people were having trouble with that machine. Not all, obviously, but a lot.

I was actually thinking about someone from PAPA saying in this forum that they expected anyone competing in Division C to be able to tour the mansion twice. That simply HAD to be tongue in cheek...

...right?

Next year they can put a super band on the lower left flipper, a red regular on the upper, and then a 30 year old dried piece on the bottom right. That should provide the "challenging players in many different ways".

mhs, is there an email for PAPA I can use? I tried to paste my post on the A Division spectator experience into the contact form but it doesn't nearly fit. Thanks-

Just take the flipper rubber off all together, and replace the bats with banana bats.

Why not?

or go really old school , no flippers . just like pinball started out , a pin and a ball

Who watched the entire (recorded) Live Stream on twitch only to get Valinor'ed at the end??

Speaking of floating grounds (from another post here on the forums), there were 2 machines side by side that give you one hell of a jolt when you touch them at the same time.

It didn't happen to me myself, but it happened to a friend I was with.

I'll get the details when I talk to home next.