I am leaving in the morning for Pittsburgh. Gonna tool around the city a few days before and after the tournament. If anyone wants to meet up with me and pinball girl PM me and I will give you a way to contact me...
All you NC folks try and find me... I know a few people from the Lost Ark tournaments in Greensboro are going.
I will be wearing cartoon type shirts with things like Oscar the Grouch, Sonic, Angry Birds, Snoopy, Beavis and Butthead etc... OR my PAPA shirts from last yr.
Is it considerably harder to qualify in B division over C? I know the caliber of players is generally higher in B, but judging by past years' it looks like almost twice as many people entered as "C" vs. "B" which means you have way more people to compete against and likely longer wait times for qualifying. I registered for C since it's my first time but wondering if B might be a better choice? Anyone with experience in both? thanks!
Quoted from MikeS:Is it considerably harder to qualify in B division over C? I know the caliber of players is generally higher in B, but judging by past years' it looks like almost twice as many people entered as "C" vs. "B" which means you have way more people to compete against and likely longer wait times for qualifying. I registered for C since it's my first time but wondering if B might be a better choice? Anyone with experience in both? thanks!
I don't think "generally higher" quite covers the skill difference in B vs. C. The qualifiers listed here, and even some of the higher non-qualifiers, include a bunch of players with tons of tournament and league experience (and success).
http://papa.org/papa15/live/B.html
Could just be my impression, however. Maybe I just happen to know a lot of the B crowd because I'm a B player. And waiting time to play when you're trying to qualify might be a consideration. Then again, a lot of the C players from last year might be thinking the same thing, and maybe B will have 150 or 175 people this year.
Quoted from MikeS:Is it considerably harder to qualify in B division over C? I know the caliber of players is generally higher in B, but judging by past years' it looks like almost twice as many people entered as "C" vs. "B" which means you have way more people to compete against and likely longer wait times for qualifying. I registered for C since it's my first time but wondering if B might be a better choice? Anyone with experience in both? thanks!
Yes, B is harder for sure than C. If it's your first PAPA, and you do not have a lot of other tournament experience with at least decent results, I'd recommend C. Better odds of playing on Sunday. And if you do play on Sunday, try B next year.
I'd say it is indeed easier to qualify in "B" than "C" due to most players in "C" not voiding an entry a seasoned player would. "C" has loads more players putting up scores so the odds are better they will at least put up one score or more to knock yours down. Just my experience in "C" for a few years.
Quoted from robotronjohn:I am leaving in the morning for Pittsburgh. Gonna tool around the city a few days before and after the tournament. If anyone wants to meet up with me and pinball girl PM me and I will give you a way to contact me...
All you NC folks try and find me... I know a few people from the Lost Ark tournaments in Greensboro are going.
I will be wearing cartoon type shirts with things like Oscar the Grouch, Sonic, Angry Birds, Snoopy, Beavis and Butthead etc... OR my PAPA shirts from last yr.
If you are coming in early, be sure to stop by the Pre-PAPA tournament!
Quoted from Whysnow:So I have to play all 5 games consistently well in order to have a shot?
The way I am understanding what you are saying >> if on entry 1 I do well on games 2 and 5. Then on entry 2 I do well on games 1, 3, and 4. I still have to pick either entry 1 or entry 2 as my one to be used for ranking?
The scoreboard will automatically display your best run at all times. In C bank, 3 good games out of 5 can sometimes be enough to qualify for finals. You don't need all 5 games to be good, a great game can counterbalance a mediocre one.
Quoted from bub2010:I see a lot of people talking about classifications and qualifications and such, but just wondering... do many folks like myself just come out to play pins and not be in the tournament, but rather just come out to play?
Yes. Most people who come into PAPA HQ do not play in the tournament, they just play a ton of great pins around the facility. I'd say that most people who come from out of town end up playing an entry or two, even if they're not expecting much to come from it.
Quoted from DrJoe:Yes, B is harder for sure than C. If it's your first PAPA, and you do not have a lot of other tournament experience with at least decent results, I'd recommend C. Better odds of playing on Sunday. And if you do play on Sunday, try B next year.
Quoted from GravitaR:I'd say it is indeed easier to qualify in "B" than "C" due to most players in "C" not voiding an entry a seasoned player would. "C" has loads more players putting up scores so the odds are better they will at least put up one score or more to knock yours down. Just my experience in "C" for a few years.
Thanks! I'll probably stick with "C" since it's my first year and I've been studying up on the rules of the rumored "C" games a bit more than the B games. It still is tempting to compete in B though just because there will likely be far less people competing in B which means less waiting in line, etc.
Molly said it well. Another way to think about it is PAPA is a 4 day tailgate with friends (and many new ones made each year) with pinball in-between. Remember to rest, get off your feet, EAT food, and be merry. OH yeah and take a shot at a ticket, if it goes bad there are plenty of friends that will understand (and likely be in same boat).
Regarding WPPRs, personnally I am a total WPPR wh*re, but last year was in C and this year B. Not ready for A yet. Toughest competition you'll see anywhere other than maybe IFPA championship. And quite frankly, playing in A to get significant points will be really difficult unless you are really good enough to compete with A players.
If this is your first PAPA, I recommend trying C first and maybe move up to B if you feel up to it. Get the experience and have fun!
Ya, I'd play in "C" first so you can compare yourself to the others that are there in the same boat as you. A great way to judge your abilities amongst your peers since it's your first visit to the facility. Mingle amongst the players waiting on games and of course partake in the great parking lot scene.
Sure PAPA is a world class tourney but there is loads more to do while there like some mentioned above. i happen to know more people from the Pittsburgh area then i do from my home state due to playing at PAPA and Pinburgh.
Depends on what you're into, I've noticed a cooler or two in the car trunks. Rule number one though, BE COOL AND DO NOT MAKE ANY TROUBLE FOR THE FACILITY.
Quoted from MikeS:Thanks! I'll probably stick with "C" since it's my first year and I've been studying up on the rules of the rumored "C" games a bit more than the B games. It still is tempting to compete in B though just because there will likely be far less people competing in B which means less waiting in line, etc.
B.
Molly, I've seen you when you were not thrilled with your performance. 
Glad to see you're taking it more in stride. I'm missing this one but have been a regular in B the past 4 years. For the noobs... what she said! If you've never been to PAPA you will surely miss a ton of tournament time just trying to play the tons of pins you've never even seen before, or perhaps all of your favorites. When you do play in the tournament, you will likely NOT play your best. You will be trying hard... too hard. Nerves play a big part in how well you play, especially in a playoff format. I have found that it takes years of playing in league and in tournaments to get past the nerves and be able to play "in the zone". It's not like playing at home or in your favorite location.
A few tips. Qualify early and often. Lines get longer at night, especially on the "Saturday night beat down". Don't be in a rush to play all five games. Take a break. Practice on a duplicate pin out on the floor. Get some food. Get off your feet. Get a good idea of what kind of score you need on that particular pin and then try to get it. Consistency is key. You don't need a top 5 or even a top 10 score to qualify. In general you can only afford 1 game that is a "zero"(lower than 87th place). If you want to know your points from a particular game, see where it ranks and subtract that number from 88. Example, you post the number 55 score on Fish Tales. 88-55= 33 points. A must is putting the qualifying website into your favorites on your smartphone. That way you can always know what kind of score on a particular pin you are shooting for.
Also, don't get too excited if you are #15 on Friday night, or even #7 for that matter. Players get serious on Saturday night and unless you can improve you will tumble right off the charts. The scoring system is brilliant so keep in mind that if you have a #1 or #2 score you are in real danger of losing 10 points or 5 points in an instant.
Above all I have found this to be true. The most fun you will have all weekend is during the after party! 400 pins with lights off and music playing is nirvana for a pinhead like me!
Quoted from bkerins:Don't ask these questions to the people who run PAPA, ask these questions to the people who run IFPA.
Don't tell me what to do! Guy makes a couple of videos and now he's all like, "don't do this and don't do that". 
Quoted from alveolus:Well, like 99.9% of the rest of the field, I have zero chance of winning at PAPA.
I could win. I am the .1%! 
Quoted from LOTR_breath:The most fun you will have all weekend is during the after party! 400 pins with lights off and music playing is nirvana for a pinhead like me!
???? !!!! ????
Quoted from Whysnow:LOL, not if you don't go...
That's why I said "could" and not "will". And you didn't even invite me!!! I'll take vacation to go next year. And win. 
I have league on Saturday, wouldn't want to let those guys down. And if I'm going to win PAPA I probably better get some skills first. I'll start by winning Mad Rollin Pinball 2013 and work my way up.
Only 6 slots left you know. And WOZ will be there!
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/official-mad-rollin-pinball-2014-saturday-september-14th-2013
Quoted from bangerjay:Speaking of after hours shenanagins, no one remembers me threatening to rape them, it was a male, to be clear.
Must have been drinking beer from Doug. 
Quoted from MikeS:Is it considerably harder to qualify in B division over C? I know the caliber of players is generally higher in B, but judging by past years' it looks like almost twice as many people entered as "C" vs. "B" which means you have way more people to compete against and likely longer wait times for qualifying. I registered for C since it's my first time but wondering if B might be a better choice? Anyone with experience in both? thanks!
Is B harder than C? Absolutely. I always recommend to play in the division that you feel most comfortable in and allowed within the PAPA rules.
While some people call it sandbagging, alot of B players are those that would be considered low-tier A players. They know the games, they know strategy, but are streaky enough where A is nearly impossible to qualify.
Go to around 31:10 for a sample of the after party :^)
Quoted from Whysnow:SO what exactly is the deal with the after party and who do I have to bribe to get my way in?
I'd play in the lowest division you're comfortable with. I felt lucky to qualify in C and far luckier to win. Yeah, I played fairly well and had one stupid game but it takes a ton of luck to win any tournament against the type of players you'll be playing against at PAPA in any division, especially on a game like Flash Gordon. 
The lines really weren't bad but I only played on thursday and friday so I didn't sit through the mad dash. I'll be playing in B this year because I have to so hopefully the lines are short and the division not as heavily entered as in the past. Either way, I expect to have my ass handed to me to make up for doing well last year. At least I won't have to deal with Modica since he can't sandbag the B division anymore. 
Quoted from DrJoe:One entry in Classics is a 4-game ticket. You play one game on 4 different machines in the classics bank. Finishing in the bottom half of the field will earn you less than one wppr point. Bottom 1/4 of the field will get you 0.3 points or so.
PAPA world championships is probably not your best choice for chasing WPPRs. But, you take with you the experience competing, play a bunch of games you haven't before, meet many pinball enthusiasts, watch some of the top players on the monitors, etc...and if you happen upon a wppr or two, all the better.
If you're really after wppr points, check out ifpa's calendar of events....there's something somewhere every weekend and the points are a lot easier to come by than at PAPA.
So here's a question regarding the points in classics... last year I qualified 16th in on friday, finished 16th when I shit the bed in the first round and scored around 6 WPPR points for my efforts. If I finish first in one of my monthly league events I get ~7 WPPR points. Now, I feel like qualifying for classics was FAR MORE DIFFICULT then finishing first in my league. Like insanely moreso. I was kinda mystified when I saw the number of points I got tbh.
Quoted from jay:So here's a question regarding the points in classics... last year I qualified 16th in on friday, finished 16th when I shit the bed in the first round and scored around 6 WPPR points for my efforts. If I finish first in one of my monthly league events I get ~7 WPPR points. Now, I feel like qualifying for classics was FAR MORE DIFFICULT then finishing first in my league. Like insanely moreso. I was kinda mystified when I saw the number of points I got tbh.
Well, it's very simple. Here you go:
(From the IFPA website)
In determining the World Pinball Player Rankings, several basic rules were put into place to meet the needs and goals of the IFPA, tournament directors and for the players themselves.
All regular tournaments start with a baseline of 25 points for the first place finisher, regardless of the number of players in the tournament.
Three tournaments will start with a baseline of 50 points. We consider these tournaments the "Crown Jewels" or the "Triple Crown" of competitive pinball. These tournaments are: IFPA World Pinball Championships, PAPA World Pinball Championships and the European Pinball Championships.
Tournaments or leagues that are run multiple times in a calendar year are treated as one event and are worth the same as a single annual event. So two events are worth 25/2 (12.5 base points each), three events are worth 25/3 (8.33 base points each). This can be somewhat subjective, so please contact us to find out the qualifications of your tournament.
To distinguish the value a tournament is worth, there is a new Tournament Value Adjustment (TVA) based on the quality of the players participating. There are two strength indiciators that the IFPA uses to determine the TVA for each event. The TVA can increase the value of a tournament by as much as 75 points, for a total of 100 points maximum for any non Triple Crown event.
The two strength indicators included in the TVA are a player's RATING and a player's RANKING. The more highly RANKED players that attend a tournament, the more it's worth. The more highly RATED players that attend a tournament, the more it's worth. A more detailed explanation of the TVA formula is found below.
WPPR points distributed will be factored based on the number of people who competed in the tournament and where a player finishes. For example, a player might get 5 points for finishing 2nd in a 10 player tournamnet, but get 30 points for finishing 2nd in a 50 player tournament.
The WPPR System will weigh recent results over historical results. Points earned over the last year are worth 100% of their value. Events one to two years old are worth 75% of their original value and events that are two to three years old are worth 50% of their value. Any event over three years lose all of their value
Side tournaments and events, that are run in conjunction of the main tournament, are worth 50% of the main tournament. If multiple side events are held, those 50% points are split among them.
Only open tournaments are included in the WPPR system. However, depending on circumstances, exceptions can be made.
Tournament Value Adjustment
As we mentioned earlier there are two strength indicators that we use to determine the TVA for an event. This includes a TVA based on player RATING, and a TVA based on player RANKING. These values are added to the base value of an event to determine the 1st place WPPR point value for that tournament. The TVA takes into account the best 64 players participating in a tournament for each strength indicator. For the RATING strength indicator, the top 64 RATED players are taken into account. For the RANKING strength indicator, the top 64 RANKED players are taken into account.
RATING FORMULA
The TVA based on RATING can be worth up to 50 additional WPPR points for a tournament. The formula used to determine the WPPR value that each player adds to the pot is:
(RATING * .00109375) – 1.40625
We consider a 'perfect' player to be rated 2000, so based on the formula that player would add .78 WPPR points to the value of the tournament. 64 players with a rating of 2000 would amount to a 50 WPPR point increase for that tournament. Any player with a rating of 1285.71 or less will have no impact on the strength of the tournament.
RANKING FORMULA
The TVA based on RANKING can be worth up to 25 additional WPPR points for a tournament. The formula used to determine the WPPR value that each player adds to the pot is:
[ln(RANKING) * -.105837527) + .729913984
We consider a 'perfect' tournament to include the top 64 ranked players in the world participating. Based on the formula the #1 ranked player in the world would add .73 WPPR points to the pot, the #2 ranked player in the world would add .66 WPPR points to the pot, etc. In total the top 64 ranked players would equal an additional 25 WPPR points in value for the tournament.
WPPR Point Distribution
Calculation and distribution of WPPR points for each tournament involves many steps:
Set an entry ranking for first time players. Currently they are given the same ranking as the 10th percentile ranked person.
Determine the tournament base value. Periodic events split the minimum 25 points across all tournaments for that year.
Determine the TVA based on the RATING strength indicator (per formula above).
Determine the TVA based on the RANKING strength indictor (per formula above).
Using the tournament base value and TVA from the RATING and RANKING strength indicators, calculate what the WPPR point value for the tournament winner.
Two WPPR point distribution values are then calculated for the rest of the field of participants.
One is a linear distribution value based on the number of players in the tournament.
(PlayerCnt + 1 – Finishing Position) * 10/100 * (1st place value / playerCnt)
The second value is a dynamic distribution value using the top 32 players of a tournament.
(pow(( 1 – pow((( Finishing Position -1) / PlayerCnt),.7)),3)) * 90 /100 * (1st place value)
These two values are what a player earns for a given tournament.
Rating Calculation
To help gauge the skill of player we have incorporated a ratings system that leverages a players' finishing order to "simulate" head to head play. This Rating is used as part of the TVA for the RATING strength indicator to help determine the value of each tournament.
Glicko is being used as the foundation of the ratings system.
To simulate head to head play, we are using the results of tournaments we already track. We know this isn't true head to head, but that data is not avaliable.
For a given player in a tournament, any player finishing ahead of them is treated as a loss and everyone they finish ahead of is treated as a win. Ties are when a player finishes in the same position as other players.
Until a player has played 5 events, they will have a provisional rating of 1200. Starting with the 6th event, their rating will start to be calculated.
Our RD can be between 10 and 200 with a decay rate of about .3 a day.
Quoted from PinballMolly:Depends on what you're into, I've noticed a cooler or two in the car trunks. Rule number one though, BE COOL AND DO NOT MAKE ANY TROUBLE FOR THE FACILITY.
Exactly. Solo cup, solo cup, solo cup!!!! And use the trash bags (you'll see plenty near some vehicles in the parking lot & entrance to PAPA). Little things like that go a long way with keeping things cool.
Oh yeah, and feel free to feed the breeder cooler. More drinks go out than in, it's truly a world wonder.
FYI - I posted this in it's own thread - hadn't yet seen this one about PAPA - my apologies for the duplication, but it's for a good cause...
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
PinballSTAR Amusements (Jersey Jack Distributor) is happy to announce that in conjunction with the fine folks at the PAPA 16 event this week in Pittsburgh we will be running a WPPR points side tournament on a Wizard of OZ on Friday 10-5.
WPPR points awarded and over $ 3,100 in prizes and giveaways. All proceeds to go to the PinballSTAR Amusements charity fund towards donation of WOZ machines to Children's Hospitals.
We are a JJP distributor and have set aside a number of games we bought to be donated to childrens hospitals for kids that are sick, injured, recovering from surgeries, etc... to play while there. Most children's hospitals have play rooms with video games, puzzles, toys, board games, etc.. I have a disabled child myself so this aspect of our company is something that is very personal to me. When we became JJP distributors and with the WOZ theme - it was a perfect opportunity to do this with the help of the pinball community. Along with this tournament and other events we participate in we also donate a portion of every game sale (both WOZ and Hobbit) to the fund. We are close to reaching our goal of donating our first game and we are quite sure this PAPA event will push us over the top... then we work on game #2 donation and so on...
Here is how it will work :
1. $ 5 per entry / play - 3 balls. Enter as many times as you'd like.
2. Every entrant gets a PinballSTAR Tshirt ($ 15 value) on their first entry (until supplies are gone of each size S to 3XL)
3. Places will be determined by highest scores during the entire tournament time of Fri 12-5. WPPR points assigned in sliding scale fashion based on final place in standings.
4. Prizes assigned to top 10 places and also Ipods awarded for a few extra categories (see below).
5. ALL proceeds go to charity.
Prizes : Almost everything signed by Jersey Jack Guarnieri. He donated most of the WOZ items and PinballSTAR Amusements donated the Backglass, Limited Edition WOZ Posters, tshirts, and all the Ipods. I think we came up with a great bunch of extras to go with the WPPR points.
1st - WOZ Main PF - $ 500 value
2nd - WOZ Backglass - $ 330 value
3rd - WOZ Translight - $ 75 value
4th - WOZ Translight - $ 75 value
5th - WOZ Munchkin Mini PF - $ 75 value
6th - WOZ Witch Castle PF - $ 75 value
7th - WOZ Emerald City Topper - $ 75 value
8th - WOZ Slingshot plastics, Witch Figure, Flyer, and Poster $ 50 value
9th - WOZ Slingshot plastics, Witch Figure, Flyer, and Poster $ 50 value
10th - WOZ Wizard plastic, Flyer, and Poster $ 25 value
I am also going to bring 5 Ipod Nano's $ 50 value each to give away for the following just to add to the fun :
Under Age 16 - highest score
Female - highest score
Most individual entries played
Partners - High Score (these entries will not count towards WPPR points)
One Handed - High Score (these entries will not count towards WPPR points)
That over $ 3,100 in prizes and giveaways... !
Additionally, the Wizard of Oz will be there with bill acceptor and on $ 1 per play during all hours of the PAPA event - Thurs 8/8 through Sun 8/11. Please come try out the new WOZ game in person and help a great cause.
We will also be offering for sale WOZ flyers and PinballSTAR Limited Edition WOZ Posters - both for $ 25. Again ALL proceeds going to charity. There will be a donation jar with the game as well if you are so inclined to add to the charity kitty.
On a personal note, I would like to thank Kevin Martin and Mark Steinman of PAPA for partnering with PinballSTAR Amusements in making this happen. We hope to raise a lot of money for the charity. PAPA donates a lot of money themselves to local Pittsburgh charities and these folks should be commended for the great pinball events they put on and also the extra they do for their own charity endeavors. Tip of the hat to you guys !
Additionally, Mark Steinman and Bowen Kerins were our guest on the August Spooky Pinball Podcast to talk about the PAPA 16 event - give it a listen...
http://www.spookypinball.com/podcast-2/
I will be manning the tournament all day Friday and also will be there explaining the WOZ machine and gameplay the other days - please stop by to say hi and talk pinball. You do not have to be a tournament player to attend the PAPA event. Come and see the incredible collection of hundreds of games set up for play. You will be hard pressed to find a collection of games of the variety and quality anywhere else.
See you all this week in Pittsburgh !
Joe Newhart
PinballSTAR Amusements
Jersey Jack Pinball Distributor
LIKE us on Facebook - Keyword - 'PinballSTAR Amusements'
[email protected]
570-357-0042
PAPA veterans, can any of you tell me what time Finals typically run until, or maybe an earliest/latest range?
I'm having a few friends over to watch the livestream of the finals and just want to get a sense of when everyone should come over since I'm on the west coast and there's the 3 hour time difference.
Quoted from Ruger:Exactly. Solo cup, solo cup, solo cup!!!! And use the trash bags (you'll see plenty near some vehicles in the parking lot & entrance to PAPA). Little things like that go a long way with keeping things cool.
Oh yeah, and feel free to feed the breeder cooler. More drinks go out than in, it's truly a world wonder.
And don't knock over Ringer.
Poor Ringer.
@jonnyo
I believe you can backtrack the PAPA twitter profile to last years tournament updates. The time stamp of those should draw you a picture of how that one went down.
Will there be a live broadcast? Maybe I missed it, but I don't see anything obvious on the blog or ggtv.
Quoted from Deaconblooze:Will there be a live broadcast? Maybe I missed it, but I don't see anything obvious on the blog or ggtv.
They will be broadcasting the last few hours of qualifying on Saturday night and the playoffs all day Sunday. I'm sure they'll make it obvious where to watch. Not sure if it will be papa.tv or ggtv.
Quoted from soren:? No World Cup Soccer?!?
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Raleigh, NC
Copenhagen
Just joking...threre's just so much wifi action in there