(Topic ID: 142711)

palooka don't always award extra ball help

By malachi88

8 years ago



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#1 8 years ago

when I lite the center target for extra ball and hit it it don't always give me the extra ball but it does always give me whatever points are lit I've tried looking at the extra ball relay but all that does it lite the extra ball bulb and I've looked at the switch's on the center drop target and I don't think its that so don't know what else it could be causing me to only sometimes get the extra ball and I know how to follow schematics so can help please

#2 8 years ago

</blind guess> Take a look at the same relay that lights the Extra Ball light. Perhaps it has another switch that trips the extra ball relay that needs cleaning or adjustment.

Find the extra ball relay coil and backtrack from there.

Sorry I can't be more help.

#3 8 years ago

Hi malachi88
I do not know "Palooka". I assume "making that (special) Extraball will step-up the "Ball count Step-up, Coil A 23-600 , schema-5-G.
I see a wire-90 -> to a "Make and Brake Switch on Game-Relay (Latch)" AND wire-90 goes further -> crosses OVER the "24-Volt-Power-Line" -> runs as wire-90 -> at "10-G" wire-90 enters "Black-Rectangle" -> I believe it runs further -> leaves "Black Rectangle" at 11-G, crosses OVER the "24-Volt-Power-Line" -> runs at / through "Switch on Extraball-Relay" -> wire-46-2 -> at / through "Switch on Center Target Relay" -> shortly after that -> "Switch-B on Index-Wheel of Score-Motor" -> reaches a long wire (to hopefully getting to Transformer-Returning-Side).
Want to check these relays / "Switches on these Relays" - and the wiring ? Greetings Rolf

1 week later
#4 8 years ago

I've noticed it only awards extra ball if its hit hard enough so sometime when the ball only just about knocks it down with a light hit it don't award the extra ball so could that mean its just dirty switch's ?

#5 8 years ago

Hi malachi88
from Your description (depending on "hard enough") I suspect the "Self-Hold-Switch on the Extraball-Relay". When the "Ball in play" hits "hard enough", it also means "hits a loooong time", so the (not working) Self-Hold-circuitry of the Extraball-Relay is not needed (?).

I do not understand completely the schema - I am guessing a bit.
Schema-G-5: The "Ball Count step up Unit" fires because "schema-F-11 and E-11" the "Switch on Extraball Relay" and "Switch on Center Target Relay" are both closed. That means: The Extraball-Relay must be pulling, see schema-G-10: Below the "Coil of Extraball-Relay" -> to the left "wire-color-24" -> down -> the "Self-Hold-Switch on Extraball-Relay". Does this switch securely close ?

This "Self-Hold-Switch on Extraball-Relay" is easy to find: A short wire runs from one side of the coil to a "Switch mounted on the Relay": Examine this "Self Hold Switch". Contacts clean ? wires soldered-on ? when the relay start pulling: Does the switch securely close ? Greetings Rolf

#6 8 years ago

Hi malachi88
in the schema at G-9 I see the "Coil on Center Target Relay". This relay ALSO has its "Self-Hold-Switch" - check that too.

Here: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1743&picno=33307 I see "unlit" 1 point <-> "lighted" 10 points. If You want to try "hard enough shot" <-> "grace shot" (?): Find the "Self-Hold-Switch on 10 point relay". Sneak-in in between the two blades of this switch: a piece / stripe of paper. Now the switch can "close" BUT not make contact. Now try "Grace Shot" and "Bulls-eye Shot" (when 10 points are lit). Do you see ?: "Grace shots" will no longer be rewarded with 10 points - because You have inactivated the "Self Hold Switch on 10 point relay". So afterwards take the stripe of paper out of the "Self Hold-Switch on 10 point relay". Greetings Rolf

#7 8 years ago

ok I'm not understanding everything your saying coz I'm new and still trying to lean all this but the "self hold switch" seems to be just fine I checked all the switch's on the "extra ball relay" and cleaned them and made sure they are making good contact and they do and I don't even know where the "ball count step up unit" is on this machine but it actually seems to be working 100% at the moment I let you know if it starts doing it again

#8 8 years ago

Hi malachi88
great, the pin runs 100 %.
The following is theory - not needed, maybe of interest:

The Score-Reel-Coil gets current and pulls, the plunger travels and at the end of travel a notch on the plunger hooks-in behind a tooth on the Score-Reel. Lets say this takes time "0.6 second".
A "Bulls eye shot / heavy shot" closes the switch (for 10 points) on the playfield for (lets say) "0.6 second".
A "Grace shot" closes the switch (for 10 points) on the playfield for (lets say) "0.3 second".

The "Closing the switch on the playfield" lets the 10 point relay pull. And the 10 point relay (by pulling) closes a switch (on the 10 point relay) -> the "Coil on the Score-Reel" gets current.
WITHOUT "Self Hold Switch on 10 point relay": The 10 point relay would quit pulling at the time the ball on the playfield moves away from the playfield switch.
So a "Grace shot" would only let current flow to the "coil on 10 point Score-Reel" for "0.3 second" - not enough time for the plunger / notch to travel - 10 points would not be given.
For this problem the manufacturer invented the "Self Hold Switch on 10 point Relay".

When the 10 point relay starts pulling: (It closes the switch for the Score-Reel and) it closes its "Self Hold Switch" - the 10 point relay stays pulling for a long time (the ball on the playfield can roll away) the 10 point relay stays pulling until the plunger on the Score-Reel has completed its travel -> the End of Stroke Switch on the Score-Wheel is opened by the travelling plunger. And this opens the circuitry of the "Self Hold circuitry on 10 point relay" -> 10 point relay quits pulling and so (opening the switch): the "Coil on the Score-Reel" ALSO looses current.

If You want to see a JPG -> https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/reading-gottlieb-schematics -> my post-39. Greetings Rolf

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