(Topic ID: 190559)
Richmond, VA
Moncton, NB
1 week later
Coin lockout is unnecessary, but I like having it there. Cuts down on the noise to leave it off. It prevents the machine from taking your money when there are replays on the register.
I'll check tomorrow but they (have 3) are probably covered with metal....
Quoted from Terry1:"WIZ", thanx for the pictures.
Would you have a shot of the front door?
Well, it's going back together. 
Two cranky issues have cropped up!
First, some times I have to hold down the "R" button to get my
replays, some times 5 to 10 seconds. When "normal", a press on the button
is all that's necessary. It is not consistent on what line or color, three in line!!
I cleaned and burnished the "R" button contacts.
Would the issue be in/on the search disc??
Second, every 5 to 10 games the odds will jump up from 4 to 6,all colors!
It will usually happen after the first ball.
I tried to correlate this with the ball lifter or shutter motor, but, it is more random than
that!!
Here is a pic so far
That looks GREAT Terry - good job!
Hey Pinball_Muggle does that odds problem sound familiar? :-p
It happens on his game as well. I've traced that circuit 1000 times. There's a switch on the EB2 relay that seems very suspicious, but I cannot rule it on or out of the problem. I settled on a short in the bundle somewhere, but it still bugs me (and I'm sure it bugs him, too). Haven't taken a crack on that in a while - you got plans this winter, Muggle?
Replays not counting for a while - on the default screen or on a colored section? Couple different areas to check depending on which.
Search disc is the basic answer, but winner and sequence units or a control unit switch or two could be involved.
When the replays are working properly, the search disc appears
to stop on a winning combo(3 in line in my case) and the replays are
registered.
When the replay(s) are NOT working properly I press the "R" button and the disc turns
one complete revolution then stops.
If press the "R" button once again, the search disc rotates one revolution again and one game registers;
pressing the "R" button again, the disc again rotates one rev. again and one more game registers!
In this case the disc does not seem to stop on the winning combo, so I'm not sure where the
winning info is collected!
I have not found the "R" button on the schematic; but it seems to me that it
energizes the relay that stops, or allows the search disc to rotate.
On a Magic screen game, eg. yellow super section, when working properly,
the disc again stops on a apparent winner and the games are registered, with one press of
the "R" button.
Quoted from Terry1:When the replay(s) are NOT working properly I press the "R" button and the disc turns
one complete revolution then stops.
Quoted from Terry1:If press the "R" button once again, the search disc rotates one revolution again and one game registers;
From the back of the game, with a winning combination set up, press the search disc magnet armature. It will release the search disc and you can observe what's happening. If it very very briefly pulls the search index coil (look closely), then your issue is with the feather-soft adjustments on that search index relay (most likely).
There's a CU switch in there as well.
Quoted from Terry1:On a Magic screen game, eg. yellow super section, when working properly,
If your section winners are all working, great! That path is more complicated.
From your post, it's a bit unclear, though - with the screen moved from the default position, you should see the winner and sequence units tick like mad as it performs the search (when the magnet releases the search disc).
One more thing... that applies to both - check the switches that change state at the top of the search disc - if those are not changing at the beginning and end of search, things won't work well.
And as I said above, the basic answer is the search disc. Is it dirty, are the slip ring wipers clean? Are the grooves clean?
Oh, just listened to a message from Muggle - he says that your search disc is not stopping on the rivets appropriately - check to ensure that the bottom wiper is barely at rest against the rivet.
This is probably the most difficult adjustment on these machines. When you press the "R" button, the search unit starts to rotate, looking for a win. The function of the search index coil, which is located beneath the search unit, is to stop the search unit so the machine can record the winnings. To do this, it raises a metal arm, which engages a sprocket wheel on the search shaft. The problem is that it only has a fraction of a second to do this before the unit moves on to the next set of contacts. This means that the search index coil has to be exactly positioned. If it isn't, the machine may record a single replay, then go on to the next set of contacts. Adjustment to the search index coil is made by loosening the mounting bolts and sliding the coil forward or back.
I know where you are coming from "bingoben". I followed Richard Gerlitz's
video on the search wiper adjustment with both the search index coil and the
index coil under the search disc. All is right on.
It appears that when the search disc reads a win, it some how tells the search index coil
to engage, stopping the search disc until the payout is complete.
The set of contacts that are activated by the pin on the top of the search disc,
I cleaned and burnished them also!!
"Muggle" all of my search wipers are clean and seem to have appropriate tension!
The search index switches have to be pretty close. It has to change state very quickly.
Check your tension arms and make sure the grooves are clean, and arms are in the right slots.
By the "search index switches", do you mean the set of contacts at the top of the search disc?
The arms to the search disc are/have good tension, and,are in the right slot(s).
Groves appear clean, but, will get a good spanking!!
"Muggle" all of my search wipers are clean and seem to have appropriate tension!
I was referring to the exact position of the last/end wiper on the search disc... when at rest it should be barely touching a rivet as if it had not quite made it up onto the rivet yet.
The Search Index Coil is below the control unit on the far right (as viewed from the back door) it's likely the most touchy adjustment on the whole game. Back and forth - up and down - very short throw - Hard to see. ( I use a small mirror and good light) ... Switch tension affects it too. Usually takes a few tries.
Patience and grace will help
Between adjusting the wipers and the search index coil you should get scoring right.
Haven't seen those video's so I don't know if he explains all this or not (I'd think so since it's so important).
Thanks "Muggle". His (Richard Gerlitz) videos are amazing!
Pretty well all aspects are covered, including the Search Index adjustments.
There are three sets of wipers on the SD. the last wiper on each set follows the
other wipers; all are on the/a rivet when the disc is locked in place.
I have not checked every position of the wipers as the index coil stops the SD; but,
from the ones I've checked , all wipers,that I can see, are on rivets.
My last adjustment, to look at, is if the Search Index Coil is going deep enough to stop the SD every time
a score is detected!
BTW, has any one attempted to modify a motorcycle lift, to lift a bingo machine???
Quoted from Pinball_Muggle:when at rest it should be barely touching a rivet as if it had not quite made it up onto the rivet yet.
That motorcycle lifter thing sucks - get a lift table from harbor freight.
on a screen game, if the search index is powering and holding the wipers while the sequence unit is looking at holes in a section, the search index adjustment is probably ok or really close...just look at the wiper contacts to see if they are about to fall off the rivet edge. You want them to be more like 2/3 of the way across the rivet.
on bikini, if you enable the orange section and the entire screen, without creating a winner put balls in holes (or hold hole switches closed with your fingers) so the game needs to count the orange and 6-number green sections. That'll check search wiper contact locations at a couple spots on the search disc.
when the replay cams index coil is powered, replay cams index switch 18D opens and disconnects the search index coil high-current circuit. The search index coil should be held powered by the 15 ohm 10 watt resistor. If CU 15B or the select before 4th ball lockout relay switch around schem D16 are dirty, the current may drop enough for the search index to lose power. You usually wind up with one credit added per search.
if you want to test that, just jumper around the resistor (wire 23-13 to 15-2). Don't do it for a big payout since the search index coil will get too hot, but for quick check you're fine.
you can also jumper around the select before 4th switch (wire 51-8 to 23-13) to see if that's a problem.
I will be distributing the weight more evenly with a bit larger plywood base over the
top.I only need 24" to just catch the corner/edge plywood of the box; nearer the head for balance.
My basement family room has a very low ceiling height plus a carpet. This unit will lift the
pin about 6 " off the floor;any more and I hit the ceiling, just about right.
The pin would hit the ceiling before it would ever tip over.
I do not see myself using this other than to get at the machine for service.
Well, I thought I would be cute and clean up the contacts around the search Index Coil,
now I have no replays at all, I guess I should have left well enough alone!
I believe that the Search Disc can, when working properly, pick up a winner(3 in line etc.)
and you can get replays, with out the Search Index coil activating!
It that case I had to press the "R" button 4 times for 4 replays.
Now nothing!
Information from the SD must go two places.
One to register replays and one to activate the Search Index coil.
The search disc does the following stuff:
Activates search relays 1-5.
When three or more are active, the search index will pull. When the search index pulls, the game will pull the replay cams index coil and allow for replays to count. As replays are added, the score counter will increase for that color.
When you're off the screen index (main bingo card), there's an alternate path set up by the control unit - it goes through the sequence and winner units, which will rack up appropriately based on the count within a section.
Now, the search index relay switches are the most sensitive switches I've ever stumbled across in a bingo. Well, except for the multiplier switches on the back of the control unit for a game like Double-Up. Those are nuts.
The adjustment requires a feather touch (don't bend the switches out of shape), and a really really close eye. If they are far enough out of adjustment that it won't score at all... then:
FIRST: set up a winner (by shooting four+ balls through the gate), then check to see if your search relays are chattering by pressing the search magnet armature to release the search disc wipers. This is on the default bingo card. Don't test out of screen index until this is working 100%.
SECOND: if search relays are chattering, check to see if the search index pulses at all. Chances are good that it's trying to work, but the throw is way too long for it to do it correctly. Adjustment of the switches is key, but you can also loosen the bracket and move it back and forth to catch between the gears properly. To test this, try pressing (gently) on the search index armature while the search wipers are moving - the wipers should catch, and you can observe if the wipers are centered on a rivet or not. If not, you need to adjust the search index bracket.
THIRD: adjust the search index switches.
When that's all working, then test your screen replays.
Don't move on from this area until you have replays working. Don't be tempted to work in other areas of the control unit. You'll only increase the number of variables.
I set up a basic 3 in line 9,1 & 2 for ex.
When I press the "R" button and/or release the SD manually
all the search relays chatter, the sequence unit pulses but does not step.
The Search Index coil does not even try to energize
I have eliminated the 15 ohm resistor as a problem.
Since I am not sure of the sequence of events I am not sure of the path
for the 50V to get to/from the Index Coil.
I see now that the Search Index coil, among other things, activates the
Replay Cams index coil. It then appears that nothing will register with out the
Replay Cams index coil!
Keeping in mind that all I did(with these games any miss movement(s) is or can be disastrous)
was clean and burnish Replay Cam 18D, Select before 4th ball contact R2, CU switch 15B.
Also I shorted out the 15 ohm resistor just to eliminate it!
Will have to re-read the schematic to confirm this, but... other folks: should the sequence unit be going off on the screen index position?? I honestly do not recall, though I want to say, 'No'.
I'll send ya a much longer and more confusing email, but the quick answer is the search index coil powers differently depending on whether the game is looking at the inline wins or the section wins.
bikini is one of the nice games that lets you do the following:
- shoot the balls and set up a win. Take your pick whether it's an inline or section win....let's assume it's a inline win on the top row 9-1-2
- manually step up the timer unit (or wait) until the motors turn off
- look at manual page 16. The top row is checked at search position 44
- manually release the search wipers and spin them by hand to position 44. Search relays 1-3 should power and the search index coil and replay cams index coil should power.
assuming they don't power, grab your voltmeter and check voltage between wire 80 on search disc and wire 70 on any handy 50V coil/fuse. If you don't see 50VAC, one or more of the search relay switches are probably bad. If you do have 50VAC, you need to probe the circuit from wire 80 -> 51-8 (CU cam 15B) -> 23-13 (before 4th trip relay switch) -> 91-8 (sequence unit close at zero) -> 15-2 (replay cams 18D).
if you have a game that turns the motors on when the search wipers are not locked in the home position, find the switch that does that and put paper in between the contacts...carefully, since it's 120V. Once the motors stay off, you can poke around and see what's happening. Just don't leave the search index/replay cams index coils powered for a really long time...they will get pretty hot.
Quoted from baldtwit:Just don't leave the search index/replay cams index coils powered for a really long time...they will get pretty hot.
I know this from first-hand experience. It doesn't take long for the search index to melt a transformer when it catches on fire... Proceed with caution.
btw, "really long time" means longer than a 600 payout. The game has to be able to handle that normally.
that assumes the resistor and replay cams 18D are working right. If you jumpered around the resistor to test, don't leave power on for anywhere near that long. You can kinda tell it's too long when the paper wrapping on the search index coil starts smoking.
Quoted from Terry1:When I press the "R" button and/or release the SD manually
all the search relays chatter, the sequence unit pulses but does not step.
if you mean the reset plunger moves/wobbles a bit, that's normal.
terry is going to clear up an inconsistency in the screen game schematics. Some are drawn with the sequence unit reset plunger switch (in the search index coil circuit above CU cam changeover switch) NO, and some have it drawn NC. Pictures of the switch and unit when:
- the unit is stepped once
- the reset plunger is held in (like coil powered)
- reset plunger pushed in and released (like coil not powered but unit not stepped up)
should make things clear.
the issue is how the switch is physically mounted and when "normally" is. Assuming "normally" is when the unit has been reset, then NO is most correct and the switch closes as soon as the unit steps up.
functionally, the switch needs to be open while the sequence unit wipers are resetting. If you have a cruddy contact plate and the wipers are dragging their way to reset, you don't want the search wipers to have rotated around and started another section scan before the sequence unit is reset ... you'd get an incorrect count of balls in holes.
once the sequence unit is reset, it really doesn't matter if the plunger switch is open or closed ... a close at zero switch is bypassing around the plunger switch branch of the circuit.
on a couple schematics on the bingo site I changed the switch from NO to NC and added a note. I think I'll take that out again unless the switch actually opens when the unit is at reset and the reset coil isn't powered...i.e. the switch blade tension is enough to open the switch when no power on coil.
this could be a new kind of switch ... it doesn't matter if it's "normally" open or closed!
Well, Mr "twit" is the man again!!!!
Looking for my 50V to energize my search index coil I found a bad contact on
CU cam switch 15B. It is a , as we used to call it, form "C" set.
I had 50V on the one side and nothing on the common, cleaned it up
and Bob's your uncle, away we go.
I like the setting up of the Search Disc manually when you set up a "in line
score" to be paid out. It's like running everything in slow motion and watching
things happen!!!
Can't thank "twit" enough, as well as everyone else.
hey! You're not done yet
attached is a pic of the sequence unit from circus queen.
The schem says the switch hanging on the front is normally open. You can see the arm poking up with the round roller/disc that will move the switch blade.
The wipers are in the reset position, but can't say for sure the switch state or the linkage arm state.
can you take a look at your game and say what the switch is doing at these three times:
- the unit is stepped once
- the reset plunger is held in (like coil powered)
- reset plunger pushed in and released (like coil not powered but unit not stepped up)
btw, if using a lift table, be aware of the area you are spreading the force over. With a smaller lift table, the ideal thing is to put boards/plywood on top of the table so you are lifting the cabinet sides, not the plywood bottom of the cabinet.
the later model games have a pretty thick plywood bottom and it doesn't matter as much. The earlier ones have a thinner bottom and lifting the entire game weight on just the bottom can bend/break the plywood and/or separate the glue joints.
Here you go "twit".
Along with the pictures ,the "hanging" contact set, will stay closed when
the reset plunger is starting to engage and stay that way until the reset has locked,
at witch time the "hanging" contact set opens like in the picture.
NOTE - just, BEFORE, the reset locks, the wipers revert to reset position and the
"hanging " contact set is still CLOSED
Seq unit in reset (resized).JPG
uh oh, I guess as usual I wasn't clear.
when the reset plunger is pushed all the way in, the switch will be open. When you let go of the plunger, what happens to the switch?
There's two possibilities:
- still open because the reset plunger doesn't get pulled out of the coil until the unit steps up
- switch blade tension is enough to pull the plunger out a little and the switch closes
for game function, it doesn't matter which happens. For the schematic, the two possibilities determine whether the NO or NC symbol is more "correct".
Clear as mud.
When the reset plunger is pressed in all the way the SQ. unit resets and the contact is open-like the first two
pictures. Any further movement of the plunger, after releasing it by hand, does not change the state of the contact!
The only time the contact is closed is when the the SQ unit is in ANY step.
Just for timing, I mentioned the fact of the short time JUST BEFORE the SQ locks (1CM or so) the
contacts are closed, but do open when locked.
ok, normally open it is. I'll fix any schems I posted that I changed the switch to NC. Any schem that was originally NC can stay that way.
finally occurred to me to look at the Malibu Beach schem . That one draws it NC with a note that says "(open at rest)". Rest?
Oh well, buried somewhere on the cdyn site is some info on that switch. I'll update it to describe what the switch is doing and why it doesn't matter which way it's drawn on the schem.
thanks!
1 week later
Well, here she be.
I haven't got the side rails polished yet so they are not on.
I don't mind the look with out them.
I still have a few minor issues with the machine, internally,
like shutting the back door causing a problem, but I just wanted
to get the machine in position and start playing it.
Thanks to every one and don't go to far, just in case!!!
If any one is interested
The blue is = Behr Tropical Tide 520D - 5
The green is = CIL Emerald Leaf 70 GY
The sand is = SW Harvest Gold 2858
Terry K
Quoted from Terry1:Well, here she be.
I haven't got the side rails polished yet so they are not on.
I don't mind the look with out them.
I still have a few minor issues with the machine, internally,
like shutting the back door causing a problem, but I just wanted
to get the machine in position and start playing it.
Thanks to every one and don't go to far, just in case!!!
If any one is interested
The blue is = Behr Tropical Tide 520D - 5
The green is = CIL Emerald Leaf 70 GY
The sand is = SW Harvest Gold 2858
Terry K
Beautiful!
Quoted from Terry1:Thanks guys.
Dennis, you don't know where a fellow could get a NOS Bikini flyer
I have to give the credit to my wife for the painting; and of course the
masks from Coos!!!
Gorgeous, would love to own this game. Seriously 
1 week later
Terry was the paint rolled for all colors? I know of the Behr brand but the others are not unfamiliar to me, or I couldn't decipher.
"The blue is = Behr Tropical Tide 520D - 5
The green is = CIL Emerald Leaf 70 GY
The sand is = SW Harvest Gold 2858"
It looks outstanding!
Quoted from Terry1:Thanks guys.
Dennis, you don't know where a fellow could get a NOS Bikini flyer
I have to give the credit to my wife for the painting; and of course the
masks from Coos!!!
What is your opinion on the quality of the masks from Coos? Looking at getting a set for my Show Time
I heard they are stick on - then you cut the patters out directly on the cabinet.
This means crisp lines without "Under Spray".
Many prefer a bit of this for a truer factory look.
"okorange" the CIL is CIL, I don't know it by any other name. It can be found easy on line.
Wall Mart(US) sell the Emerald Leaf under the above mentioned paint #, not sure of
manufacture and color match to CIL!
The SW is Sherwin Williams.
I, my wife, used a roller to apply all the colors, and then, an artist brush to clean up
some leaking
"dasvis" the masks from Coos are fantastic! The best, for me, is to water down the "area"(quite a bit)
with a combo of water and a pinch of dish soap.
Then you can slide around the mask(s) to get the proper position!
Steve, the mask(s) patterns are already stamped; you just pick then out!
In fact, it may be a good idea to "masking tape" the patterns so the stay in place a little longer!
Terry,
Wow. Beautiful job! I am just beginning my first restore (Laguna Beach). Wish I was were you are.
Two questions:
Is the blue of the water and the blue of the sky different, and
What did you use for stencils?
My machine will oneday need paint (new coin door), following you progress has be great.
"KYBingo", I wanted a blue color that could represent both water and sky.
After communicating with many people (thank you to them) I decided on the
Tropical Blue, and yes, it is all the same color!!!
It comes close to the blue of MY backglass blue; having said that, it was NOT my
intention to match my backglass blue.
The reason I say this is because MY backglass colors are off; talking to a few people
it appears MY back glass my have been a second, sort of speak!!
This is getting to be a long long post, must have caught this from "twit"
The stencils, masks, came from Coos Hakvoort.
He has a web site and you can see exactly how they work, all though, I noticed
on his site that the masks are not available.
I got mine about 2 months ago.
I try not to stay on his site to long, I do not want to talk myself into a new backglass.
50/50 if I am listening!!!!
Terry K
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