Hokus Pokus
Bally, 1975Quoted from SkyKing2301:Wow, that's pretty rough, winteriscoming. Good luck, I hope it works out in your favor!
Although I was resting comfortably (after talking to the expert) about the lack of any living termites in my machine, I ended up reselling it anyway (since the rest needed more work than I had time/resources for) ... so that's one less thing to worry about.
Did the new buyer plan to have it refumigated? Or was the evidence pretty conclusive that had already been done?
Quoted from fosaisu:Did the new buyer plan to have it refumigated? Or was the evidence pretty conclusive that had already been done?
The expert I spoke with expressed that he believed it had already been fumigated based on the following evidence:
1) the coloration of the frass (almost white),
2) the fact that I thoroughly inspected the cabinets several times and never once encountered a single living thing (nor wing, carcass, etc.),
3) that I wasn't finding any new frass at the areas I'd already vacuumed / inspected.
Quoted from vid1900:If you end up stuck with it, put it in a bag in a chest freezer for a month to make sure you have killed all them buggers.
I wish I had access to one. I don't think my wife will approve of having this pf back in the house again, even if I can be pretty sure they're all dead...
The part that sucks the most is that my wife will now scrutinize every pinball purchase going forward, but I guess I will too. Me having brought something home with termites opened a can of worms. Now there's the added worry of everything I buy having a potential to infest my home: termites, roaches... Bed bugs.
Quoted from winteriscoming:Me having brought something home with termites opened a can of worms. Now there's the added worry of everything I buy having a potential to infest my home: termites, roaches... Bed bugs.
...worms.
Quoted from winteriscoming:The part that sucks the most is that my wife will now scrutinize every pinball purchase going forward, but I guess I will too.
Exactly. My wife will never know about the wood boring beetles that once lived in my Target Pool. 
Quoted from SteveFury:Exactly. My wife will never know about the wood boring beetles that once lived in my Target Pool.
She does now. 
Minor update on my case.
The CC company sent me a letter requesting the tracking number for my return shipment to the seller. So I called them telling them the seller never responded to any of my requests for info on where to return it, and that since it's effectively termite infested wood, I might not be able to legally ship it back.
I was then really taken aback by the surprised tone of the representative when she asked me to clarify. I explained the termite infested wood part and then asked her why she didn't have a summary of my overall problem from the time that I reported it. She said she didn't have a summary and would record this info.
What's up with that? I explained the termite issue the first time I called. Why is this news to them at this point?
I also asked if I could submit pictures, but she said they don't generally accept pictures.
So far I'm not feeling that good about this, but the case remains open since I replied stating that the seller has ignored all communication about my attempts to return it.
In the meantime, the PF has been wrapped in plastic, sitting out in the yard, and baking in the summer sun ever since I discovered the issue. Who knows what condition it will be in if I ever unwrap it again.
Quoted from winteriscoming:So far I'm not feeling that good about this, but the case remains open since I replied stating that the seller has ignored all communication about my attempts to return it.
I got a message from PayPal that a chargeback dispute has been opened by my card issuer. So that must mean my CC company is issuing a chargeback. Paypal is waiting for feedback from the seller to dispute it, but hopefully this ends in my favor.
My chargeback case in PayPal shows as closed. There aren't any details or any logs that the seller responded to anything, so maybe it was closed in my favor. I'm going to wait for some official word from my CC company before disposing of the pf. I really wasn't trying to get something for nothing here, so don't really want to come out of it with a termite infested Gorgar pf for free (not that I'd ever intentionally pay for a termite infested pf). It sucks that I've basically been obligated to hold onto it for so long.
Quoted from vid1900:I would put that thing in a garbage bag and run it out the door to the dumpster.
Quoted from vid1900:Don't throw a salvageable playfield away.
I didn't get far enough into inspecting the damage to tell how salvageable it is. A topside screw hole was for sure stripped out on one of the ball guides because it was just dangling, so now I'm thinking maybe due to termite voids underneath. Not sure how many topside components would be impacted, but I definitely didn't press through anywhere when scrubbing and cleaning it pretty well.
Quoted from vid1900:I would put that thing in a garbage bag and run it out the door to the dumpster.
That was before I asked my friend who is a licensed exterminator.
He said that freezing the wood in a chest freezer kills all the termites, no problem.
I have an update. I received a letter from my card company indicating that the dispute is closed in my favor.
So, lacking a chest freezer, what do I do with this pf? I can't imagine months sitting out in my yard wrapped in plastic has done it any good.
Quoted from winteriscoming:So, lacking a chest freezer, what do I do with this pf?
Give it to a local pin restorer who does have a freezer. People who hunt deer always have a chest freezer or two.
Or use the walk in freezer at the local dive bar or restaurant.
Quoted from vid1900:Give it to a local pin restorer who does have a freezer.
Or use the walk in freezer at the local dive bar or restaurant.
Slip the guy at your local 7-11 a fiver to tuck it in behind the ice cream.
Quoted from Shiny_balls:Just wait for snow
Yeah, assuming we have a decent number of consecutive days of freezing weather in the winter, I could do that. Last winter got pretty cold here.
Quoted from winteriscoming:I have an update. I received a letter from my card company indicating that the dispute is closed in my favor.
So, lacking a chest freezer, what do I do with this pf? I can't imagine months sitting out in my yard wrapped in plastic has done it any good.
Why don't you send back the playfield to the seller? I don't understand why you didn't in the first place, now its most likely trashed from being out in weather.
Quoted from Pinplayer1967:Why don't you send back the playfield to the seller? I don't understand why you didn't in the first place, now its most likely trashed from being out in weather.
I'm in no way in the wrong here.
I can't send anything back when the d-bag ignored all communication. I don't even know his address. It's not like I held onto the shipping materials.
If he really wanted it back, he had every opportunity to respond during the dispute process, and pay for return shipping.
You know, I find it very sad that people, who call themselves pinball collectors, would pass this machine off 4 or 5 times without fixing it. SkyKing2301 just sprayed some bottled cleaner on it, hacked a 'repair', and kicked the can down the road. So, another 'genious' buys it, and resells it....to me. That's right, I paid for a machine that some of you on this topic told a previous owner to "burn." And you call yourselves 'collectors'?
I spent a couple hours in the woodshop making a new base for the backbox, then repainted the white part of the cabinet and had the legs powdercoated. I also replaced a side of the backbox, and had the artwork restored by a local artist. There were enough broken parts on the playfield to choke a horse. Shameful. Even a rubber was 'shortened' with a bread tie. Nice job Skyjump. The leaf switch was also replaced using a BALLY part.
I would suggest that you, 'Mr. Jump', learn how to read schematics, instead of stashing them in the coin box. Your 'beloved' machine has been mechnically restored, by me, and plays like new. Those inserts you were too busy to concern yourself with? They have been done, too. New posts, new lane guides, new hardware, LED lighting, new decals, sandblasted the lock down mount and playfield glass end piece. New rubbers, new bumpers, new fuse block with the CORRECT fuses,
Oh, I especially like the black electrical tape to cover up the ink loss on the backglass. Clasy touch. If you want the bucket of grease you used on the scoring unit, I have it in my garage.
Looks like Skyjump's chute failed to open one too many times.
Now, go ahead and ban me for speaking the truth.
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Quoted from Mpellicano:And you call yourselves 'collectors'?
You must be a delight at parties.
Quoted from Mpellicano:You know, I find it very sad that people, who call themselves pinball collectors, would pass this machine off 4 or 5 times without fixing it. SkyKing2301 just sprayed some bottled cleaner on it, hacked a 'repair', and kicked the can down the road. So, another 'genious' buys it, and resells it....to me. That's right, I paid for a machine that some of you on this topic told a previous owner to "burn." And you call yourselves 'collectors'?
I spent a couple hours in the woodshop making a new base for the backbox, then repainted the white part of the cabinet and had the legs powdercoated. I also replaced a side of the backbox, and had the artwork restored by a local artist. There were enough broken parts on the playfield to choke a horse. Shameful. Even a rubber was 'shortened' with a bread tie. Nice job Skyjump. The leaf switch was also replaced using a BALLY part.
I would suggest that you, 'Mr. Jump', learn how to read schematics, instead of stashing them in the coin box. Your 'beloved' machine has been mechnically restored, by me, and plays like new. Those inserts you were too busy to concern yourself with? They have been done, too. New posts, new lane guides, new hardware, LED lighting, new decals, sandblasted the lock down mount and playfield glass end piece. New rubbers, new bumpers, new fuse block with the CORRECT fuses,
Oh, I especially like the black electrical tape to cover up the ink loss on the backglass. Clasy touch. If you want the bucket of grease you used on the scoring unit, I have it in my garage.
Looks like Skyjump's chute failed to open one too many times.
Now, go ahead and ban me for speaking the truth.
Congrats on restoring a machine that needed it, but otherwise...what?
SK said he had medical issues at the time, didn't have resources or energy to fix/restore the game, so he sold it. Not sure why you're blaming him for all the "hacks"...every project game has those type of "creative fixes" from previous owners.
Quoted from Mpellicano:I paid for a machine that some of you on this topic told a previous owner to "burn."
O.K., What's that got to do with the rest of us?
Looks like you did nice work. I hope you enjoy it.
Quoted from Mpellicano:SkyKing2301 just sprayed some bottled cleaner on it, hacked a 'repair', and kicked the can down the road. ... Shameful. Even a rubber was 'shortened' with a bread tie. Nice job Skyjump. ... I would suggest that you, 'Mr. Jump', learn how to read schematics, instead of stashing them in the coin box. Your 'beloved' machine has been mechnically restored, by me, and plays like new. Those inserts you were too busy to concern yourself with? ... Oh, I especially like the black electrical tape to cover up the ink loss on the backglass. Clasy touch. If you want the bucket of grease you used on the scoring unit, I have it in my garage. Looks like Skyjump's chute failed to open one too many times.
I'm not sure why you've jumped to all these conclusions and opted to be so mean about them. Like Stoomer pointed out above (and as I'd mentioned in this very thread), I ran into a medical issue the same week I got this machine -- which required immediate invasive surgery.
My wife credits this machine with helping in my recovery, because it helped motivate me to get out of bed because I'd really wanted to work on it. That being said, I did absolutely ZERO work on this machine with the exception of the vacuuming out all the frass, and attempting to clean the cabinet as discussed in the other thread you've clearly found ( https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/nicotine-so-gross-mean-green-ftw ). I had limited financial & physical resources (due to the surgery), the termite scenario spooked me, and I was still relatively new to the hobby at the time and not ready to take on such a project (this was my third machine, and my first two had been a batch deal). I owned the machine for less than two weeks.
As such, I don't appreciate your judgments and accusations.
I'm thrilled the machine ended up in the hands of someone willing and able to dedicate the time & effort to bring it back to its former glory. Congrats & good job on turning it back into a beautiful game!
Quoted from Mpellicano:You know, I find it very sad that people, who call themselves pinball collectors, would pass this machine off 4 or 5 times without fixing it. SkyKing2301 just sprayed some bottled cleaner on it, hacked a 'repair', and kicked the can down the road. So, another 'genious' buys it, and resells it....to me. That's right, I paid for a machine that some of you on this topic told a previous owner to "burn." And you call yourselves 'collectors'?
I spent a couple hours in the woodshop making a new base for the backbox, then repainted the white part of the cabinet and had the legs powdercoated. I also replaced a side of the backbox, and had the artwork restored by a local artist. There were enough broken parts on the playfield to choke a horse. Shameful. Even a rubber was 'shortened' with a bread tie. Nice job Skyjump. The leaf switch was also replaced using a BALLY part.
I would suggest that you, 'Mr. Jump', learn how to read schematics, instead of stashing them in the coin box. Your 'beloved' machine has been mechnically restored, by me, and plays like new. Those inserts you were too busy to concern yourself with? They have been done, too. New posts, new lane guides, new hardware, LED lighting, new decals, sandblasted the lock down mount and playfield glass end piece. New rubbers, new bumpers, new fuse block with the CORRECT fuses,
Oh, I especially like the black electrical tape to cover up the ink loss on the backglass. Clasy touch. If you want the bucket of grease you used on the scoring unit, I have it in my garage.
Looks like Skyjump's chute failed to open one too many times.
Now, go ahead and ban me for speaking the truth.
Do you by chance know where I can get an imamaculate baywatch?
Thanks for being so nice, and letting me vent. I was determined to get bring this one back without taking it to my repair guy. I have three coils to replace today, shine up the rails, then add the ABCD letters to finish the inserts, and she will be finished.
The switches were filthy, stepper units were sluggish, and the score motor needed a total makeover. The jones plugs needed a dremel bath, too. I can't figure out, yet, how credits are added without manually moving the coil in the stepper unit.
Quoted from Mpellicano:You know, I find it very sad that people, who call themselves pinball collectors, would pass this machine off 4 or 5 times without fixing it. SkyKing2301 just sprayed some bottled cleaner on it, hacked a 'repair', and kicked the can down the road. So, another 'genious' buys it, and resells it....to me. That's right, I paid for a machine that some of you on this topic told a previous owner to "burn." And you call yourselves 'collectors'?
I spent a couple hours in the woodshop making a new base for the backbox, then repainted the white part of the cabinet and had the legs powdercoated. I also replaced a side of the backbox, and had the artwork restored by a local artist. There were enough broken parts on the playfield to choke a horse. Shameful. Even a rubber was 'shortened' with a bread tie. Nice job Skyjump. The leaf switch was also replaced using a BALLY part.
I would suggest that you, 'Mr. Jump', learn how to read schematics, instead of stashing them in the coin box. Your 'beloved' machine has been mechnically restored, by me, and plays like new. Those inserts you were too busy to concern yourself with? They have been done, too. New posts, new lane guides, new hardware, LED lighting, new decals, sandblasted the lock down mount and playfield glass end piece. New rubbers, new bumpers, new fuse block with the CORRECT fuses,
Oh, I especially like the black electrical tape to cover up the ink loss on the backglass. Clasy touch. If you want the bucket of grease you used on the scoring unit, I have it in my garage.
Looks like Skyjump's chute failed to open one too many times.
Now, go ahead and ban me for speaking the truth.
While it's great that you got this game flipping again, I'm not sure why you're so vindictive toward previous owners. Plenty of games get hacked over the years, and plenty get passed around for one reason or another. I've had my fair share of basket cases and encountered some interesting and mind boggling hacks. It's just the nature of collecting commercial coin-op equipment. Heck, I just sold two games that I've had in storage for over 2 years that I hadn't done much of anything with. I rescued them from basements, and now finally passed them along to someone else. There's nothing wrong with getting a game out there if you're ready to let it go.
Quoted from Mpellicano:Thank you, Clark. I think we've exhausted this topic.
Nah let’s keep it going. Lol.
The sad part is that when you pass it along someone is going to complain about your work too
Quoted from Mpellicano:Thanks for being so nice, and letting me vent. I was determined to get bring this one back without taking it to my repair guy. I have three coils to replace today, shine up the rails, then add the ABCD letters to finish the inserts, and she will be finished.
The switches were filthy, stepper units were sluggish, and the score motor needed a total makeover. The jones plugs needed a dremel bath, too. I can't figure out, yet, how credits are added without manually moving the coil in the stepper unit.
It was more than a vent-it was just plain nasty & uncalled for in a sub forum where courtesy, respect & understanding are the norm. But as the above post & those earlier illustrate it has been all about you & your self heralded heroics. Skyking2301 has shown remarkable restraint & composure in the circumstances.
Quoted from wayner:More
It was more than a vent-it was just plain nasty & uncalled for in a sub forum where courtesy, respect & understanding are the norm. But as the above post & those earlier illustrate it has been all about you & your self heralded heroics. Skyking2301 has shown remarkable restraint & composure in the circumstances.
No kidding.
Quoted from Mpellicano:Thanks for being so nice, and letting me vent. I was determined to get bring this one back without taking it to my repair guy. I have three coils to replace today, shine up the rails, then add the ABCD letters to finish the inserts, and she will be finished.
The switches were filthy, stepper units were sluggish, and the score motor needed a total makeover. The jones plugs needed a dremel bath, too. I can't figure out, yet, how credits are added without manually moving the coil in the stepper unit.
You fixed an em machine.... big deal. Does your “repair guy” have a special finger nail file that the rest of us don’t have? Lol. I don’t “collect” em machines but I’m pretty sure that real collectors of em machines don’t put led lights in them. I mean I could be wrong. But wait.... I’m not (This is how everything you say sounds to the rest of us btw).
I've said all that I need to say. Thank you all for your kind words. Wishing you all the best. Now, it's on to the next project.
Quoted from Mpellicano:I've said all that I need to say. Thank you all for your kind words. Wishing you all the best. Now, it's on to the next project.
You've said everything you need to say, except that you're sorry to those you tore into for no good reason!
Quoted from vid1900:That was before I asked my friend who is a licensed exterminator.
He said that freezing the wood in a chest freezer kills all the termites, no problem.
It's also a technique museums use: https://australianmuseum.net.au/how-do-i-prevent-insects-damaging-my-artworks
I had a cabinet that showed signs of furniture borers. Pedestal and backbox were a minor hassle to find a freezer big enough:
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I used a 3 seat "wrap and move" sofa cover for the main cabinet, some duct tape and a vacuum cleaner to get most of the air out:
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That cabinet will fit in a 500L chest freezer that a friend on a farm has. Just have to empty the entire frozen (butchered) cow out first, put the cabinet in and then stack all the frozen meat back inside. Few weeks later, reverse the process and leave it wrapped while it thaws.
Quoted from ajfclark:It's also a technique museums use: https://australianmuseum.net.au/how-do-i-prevent-insects-damaging-my-artworks
I had a cabinet that showed signs of furniture borers. Pedestal and backbox were a minor hassle to find a freezer big enough:
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
I used a 3 seat "wrap and move" sofa cover for the main cabinet, some duct tape and a vacuum cleaner to get most of the air out:
[quoted image]
That cabinet will fit in a 500L chest freezer that a friend on a farm has. Just have to empty the entire frozen (butchered) cow out first, put the cabinet in and then stack all the frozen meat back inside. Few weeks later, reverse the process and leave it wrapped while it thaws.
Termites seem to love "Sky Jump"/"Free Fall" cabinets for some odd reason!
Seeing this post around again reminds me of an event that happened to me a few months ago. I was given the Sing Along free in advance for fixing another game, a Triple Strike. I didn't realize they had both been heavily infested at one point until I got them loaded up. Promptly brought them back. Too risky. Only time I ever returned a free game! Free is nice but nothing is worth the cost of risking all of my other games. I didn't lose any sleep over bringing them back but would have lost sleep for months if I put them with my collection wondering if they were getting infested or not. No signs of an active infestation risk but it was never certain enough for me. Some things just ARE NOT worth it, no matter how certain you are it's fine.
Brought them back without even bringing them inside that night. Thankfully. Guy was pretty upset I went back on the deal but he shouldn't of been, if I had known I wouldn't of touched this with a 10 foot pole and he should've never bought them either and I was very kind with him letting him know the risks he may face with them.
It's hard bringing back a *free* very desirable game, but termites just ain't worth the trouble. Fumigation doesn't always work. Burn, baby burn. I told him to burn the cabs and I think he did. He was getting new cabs made but I told him even the playfield and backbox board is a danger, but it sounded like he wanted to take the risk. Not sure what ever came of them. Don't really care, to be honest. They were a mess! Funny how the previous poster in this thread had such an angry tone.
If this happened to me with these games and somebody tried to rub it in my face like that I would say "sorry for your loss and I'm glad it's you and not me!". 
Kudos for taking the higher road Skyking. You should not feel bad about getting rid of it. Termite games SUUUUUUUCK! Months later I have absolutely no regrets and will wait for a nice bug-free Sing Along to come along. If somebody ends up buying them and rubs it in my face how much of a "deal" I lost out on by bringing them back I will just laugh very hard. Some things just aren't worth the work and risk. I will never regret bring them back at all, and certainly if it would have caused any harm to my house or collection. We all love pinball but drawing the line is smart. Let some other idiot deal with them instead and you are the true winner
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Quoted from Darcy:That is Powderpost Beetle damage. Just as bad as termites.
Yeah, that came up in my discussion with the seller. It was a very big "So?!?!?!?!" moment, as if he was trying to make it sound okay. They're just termites 2.0, if not scientifically at least in the way they operate. Very destructive and swarm all the same. Dodged a bullet there
Yikes. That's bad looking damage.
I suppose you could've just let them sit outside overnight for a day or two. I think we're supposed to get freezing temps at least tomorrow. That may have done the trick to kill whatever's inside.
Quoted from mbaumle:Yikes. That's bad looking damage.
I suppose you could've just let them sit outside overnight for a day or two. I think we're supposed to get freezing temps at least tomorrow. That may have done the trick to kill whatever's inside.
This was a few months back in the hot season. Also, no amount of "fixing" would have convinced me these did not pose a potential risk.
Quoted from mbaumle:Yikes. That's bad looking damage.
I suppose you could've just let them sit outside overnight for a day or two. I think we're supposed to get freezing temps at least tomorrow. That may have done the trick to kill whatever's inside.
The Australian Museum recommends freezing for 7 days minimum: https://australianmuseum.net.au/how-do-i-prevent-insects-damaging-my-artworks
Anyone in Balto MD area have experience with a fumigation vaulting service? I just bought a 53 Gottlieb Grand Slam woodrail with some extensive dry wood termite damage... don’t want to bring this thing into the home until I am 100% sure all termites are done with.
Quoted from Dono:Anyone in Balto MD area have experience with a fumigation vaulting service? I just bought a 53 Gottlieb Grand Slam woodrail with some extensive dry wood termite damage... don’t want to bring this thing into the home until I am 100% sure all termites are done with.
After digging around and trying to find out the best way to deal with this, I’ve decided to get the game fumigated in a specially designed fumigation vault. Because the need for this type of service in MD is not in a high demand locale (e.g. FL,TX, HI) the price runs a lot higher... best quote I got for one pin is 300$, and that is if I share the vault with another customer. I did get a bit of a break... Since mKmy acquired game has drywood termite damage, the amount of fumigation product needed is far less than subterranean/powder post beetle fumigation... so... bottom line for me since I dont want to wait around for someone else to share, price I’ll be paying is $350...
Lesson learned... inspect your game wih pests in mind prior to purchasing... this game came from Honolulu, prime area for termites... I should have been more diligent... playfield was so sweet I got blindsided, kinda like the hot chick syndrome
Quoted from Dono:bottom line for me since I dont want to wait around for someone else to share, price I’ll be paying is $350...
$350 is not too bad of a price. It will take a few days, of course remove the backglass and playfield glass. For your piece of mind, getting it treated professionally is the right choice.
Quoted from Darcy:$350 is not too bad of a price. It will take a few days, of course remove the backglass and playfield glass. For your piece of mind, getting it treated professionally is the right choice.
Thanks Darcy... any reason to remove playfield and back glasses?
Quoted from Dono:Thanks Darcy... any reason to remove playfield and back glasses?
The backglass can be damaged with temperature extremes. The process of killing the termites may include a 2 day freezing. The backglass can loose the artwork with temperature changes. The playfield glass removed will allow access to the wood playfield if they fog a pesticide into the chamber or large sealed bag that the game will go into. Just a precaution.
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