(Topic ID: 274650)

Paddock lap counter stepper unit not working right.

By Phoenix_Quill

3 years ago


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#1 3 years ago

hello, so I just bought my very first pinball machine! Its 1969 paddock by Williams, and everything was working when I picked it up, brought it home plugged everything in everything seems to be working great, but the lap counter seems not to go any higher than the number one. Is there any tips for what I should do?

Added over 4 years ago:

Added more information about problem to title

#2 3 years ago

So, update on the problem.
After reading the instructions booklet, I was able to find the stepper unit.

Weird thing is, it advances as it should when I get the playfield up and trip hit the advance steps for tace buttons or switches. (After a full lap, it counts up one lap)

But if I close the machine, it won't advance past one lap.

On the last test, I actually made it advance two laps with the playfield down, so, I'm not sure what is going on with it.

Any advice?

#3 3 years ago

Congratulations on your machine. Working on these is fun and rewarding, but there is a learning curve.

Do you have the schematic? Have you checked out the sites that go over the EM pinball tips on the steppers and switches?

I’m attaching a clip from the schematic showing the race step up coil. The key switches are an end of stroke switch on they advance unit and the contacts on the advance unit on the last position (10). It’s possible that the contacts on the stepper are dirty or misaligned, same thing on the end of stroke switch. Since you can get it to work sometimes, that’s my guess.

Good luck, it’s a fun game.

Dave

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#4 3 years ago
Quoted from dgAmpGuy:

Congratulations on your machine. Working on these is fun and rewarding, but there is a learning curve.
Do you have the schematic? Have you checked out the sites that go over the EM pinball tips on the steppers and switches?
I’m attaching a clip from the schematic showing the race step up coil. The key switches are an end of stroke switch on they advance unit and the contacts on the advance unit on the last position (10). It’s possible that the contacts on the stepper are dirty or misaligned, same thing on the end of stroke switch. Since you can get it to work sometimes, that’s my guess.
Good luck, it’s a fun game.
Dave
[quoted image]

Thanks yeah, I contacted the seller and he sent me a text that said the same, it seems to rotate freely when open, but it almost sounds like something is blocking it when closed.
I'm not sure what to actually do, because I've seen it advance to 2 a couple of times when playing it. More often than not though, I hear a sound, but instead of advancing to 2, 1 goes out then comes back on.

#5 3 years ago

Sounds like the stepper unit is gummed up if you hear it try to move and it does not.

See this guide for cleaning them:

http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#steps

There are also ver good videos on YouTube showing how to disassemble, clean, and reassemble the steppers. When they are clean they step along nicely like a clock. When they are dirty, they give you all sorts of problems.

The race unit must be resetting ok, otherwise the game would never start.

Dave

#6 3 years ago

What happens if you quickly push in and release the step up solenoid plunger?

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

What happens if you quickly push in and release the step up solenoid plunger?

works as it normally should, but the table is up when I am doing that. It will work and advance as normal, doesn't feel gummy to me, but this is my first machine, so I am not 100% sure, I watched a few videos on how to clean a stepper unit, and although it looks doable, it makes me nervous. (I just spent 700 dollars buying the machine, that's more than a weeks pay for me)

#8 3 years ago

Well, I’m not sure how to give you confidence, but I can tell you that as long as you don’t manhandle the parts, you really can’t ruin anything beyond repair. If the game doesn’t work, you’re not going to get any enjoyment out of it.

If you think the mechanism is free enough to work, then you should focus on the 2 switches that I outlined. If they are dirty or not making good contact, it would cause the problem you described. It could also be a bad solder connection at the wire tab (because you report that it works with the playfield up). If you need help with the wire colors, they are in the schematic, and I can point them out.

If the race unit step up coil is getting energized and not stepping up, then it’s a mechanical issue and you’ve got to clean the unit. It’s really a process of taking lots of pictures, carefully removing the springs and fasteners and keeping them organized, cleaning, and reversing the process. Fortunately, there is a ton of documentation on those Williams steppers, lots of pictures online, and lots of people who can help you out if you don’t put it back together right.

Your other option is to find a local service guy or pinsider to make a house call.

Dave

#9 3 years ago

On stepper units, from Clay's superb guide: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#steps

#10 3 years ago

Okay, so, I've noticed that when the stepper's coil hits to advance, I noticed that when I looked at it from the open coin door, (wow I felt flexible doing that, haha) that the springs for the reset are flexing too, but not the coil. So I'm thinking that maybe there's either something from the reset side activating on accident, or that maybe, only maybe though, that the central spring for reseting the wheel might have been wound too much. (because I checked the coils, and they have good smooth action.)

Since I have someone's attention, I do have another question on my mind, my flippers keep getting loose, and I keep having to open the machine to tighten the screw bolt... things. (small bolts with a flat head screw slot) Both the left and right flipper have these, and I'm told that is normal, but I was curious to know, are there supposed to be lock washers or something? It seems that every 5-10 games, I have to open the machine to tighten these again.

#11 3 years ago

There is a balance on the reset spring between when it has too little tension and can’t return to the zero setting when the reset fires and when it has too much tension and can’t step up when the step up coil fires. It’s usually 3 turns, but the hook that goes on the gear allows you to fine tune the tension by less than a turn. You should be able to work the coil plungers by hand and observe it step up, and then pull the reset plunger and see it go back to zero. If there’s dirt, or old grease on the spider contacts or the Bakelite plate with the copper traces on it, then there will be more drag that can cause sluggish operation. When it’s clean and lubed with just a touch of superlube, it will step up nicely and reset to zero from any position.

Re: flipper set screws. That can happen, especially if the flipper shafts have divots worn in. Then and you try to align it just a little further away... the screws want to fall back in the old holes. Again — it’s a careful balance. You can’t crank those screws really hard or you will break them off, but they have to be tight or they will loosen up again. Try tightening them slowly, going back and forth between the two, to lock the shaft in place.

Dave

#12 3 years ago

I know it sounds dumb, but when I first started out, I didn't notice there were 2 set screws on each flipper, thought there was just one. Make sure you tighten both! I was re-tightening every 10 or so games also, when tightening just 1. If you don't like the angle, (from the flipper shaft's previous divot holes as Ampguy mentioned), swap the shafts with each other.

Paddock is an addicting game! The guides certainly don't give it much love, and I have to agree the artwork on it is really lame, but the game, simple as it is, gives me a good workout! I also like that it's 1 of those Wms "Replay + Add-a-ball" types, (along with replays, ball count unit counts down and lets you win more than just 1 ball per ball in play).

#13 3 years ago

it sounds dumb, but I was doing the same thing, turns out that the right flipper only had one screw, the other one was sheered off at some point and doesn't move one way or the other. I'm probably going to have to find a way to get it out and get a new screw or will have to purchase a whole assembly, not a big deal, just an annoyance.

#14 3 years ago
Quoted from Phoenix_Quill:

it sounds dumb, but I was doing the same thing, turns out that the right flipper only had one screw, the other one was sheered off at some point and doesn't move one way or the other. I'm probably going to have to find a way to get it out and get a new screw or will have to purchase a whole assembly, not a big deal, just an annoyance.

That’s a pretty common problem. You can get screw extractors at the hardware store. The trick is getting a drill bit in the center of the broken screw and deep enough for the extractor to bite. I have successfully saved 2, but there was one that I just couldn’t get centered. You can get a new crank piece from either pbresource.com or eBay.

#15 3 years ago

I have a Paddock that I am currently right in the middle of disassembling and cleaning and fixing, so I may be able to help if you need pictures, etc. I just disassembled all four stepper units and cleaned them and replaced the springs etc. Note the Race and Advance stepper units are right under the top apron area where the most ball dirt is, so they were pretty filthy and sticky and weren't working correctly at all.

#16 3 years ago

So, I wound up buying a flipper rebuild kit, and some coil sleeves, only to be hindered by the screws not wanting to come loose. Can I use oil or WD-40 to loosen the screws?

#17 3 years ago
Quoted from Phoenix_Quill:

So, I wound up buying a flipper rebuild kit, and some coil sleeves, only to be hindered by the screws not wanting to come loose. Can I use oil or WD-40 to loosen the screws?

don't use wd40, try heat on the screws.

#18 3 years ago

Well, now I'm done for, I turn on the machine, I hear the score motor clicking, but the ball won't come out, if I remove the ball, it stops, but nothing activates, flippers don't do anything, none of the things do anything.
I'm beginning to think that I have to take it to a shop for repairs.

Edit: I manually changed the score reels, and found out that it doesn't matter which one I advance, as long as the score isn't zeros, it will always start a new game like it's supposed to.
basically, as long as it is able to actually reset to zero when you hit start, it will work properly. I'm fairly certain that I have to clean contacts to actually fix the problem, and I still plan on taking it to a pinball repair shop in the future, but for now I think that I can do the repairs I know I can do at home. And maybe I won't need a shop for a long time.

1 week later
#19 3 years ago

Well, after weeks of cleaning and looking at the stepper unit, and still not figuring out why it only advances when the playfield is up, but not down, I accidentally ran into a video about stepper units. It showed, that the little screw that goes in towards the advance plunger linkage is for adjusting the action.
I loosened it up a little, and boom, now it works.

anyways, thanks for everyone's help for posting here with suggestions. If I have more questions I might post them here, or start a new thread.

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