Hello - been working on a Williams Paddock machine I just got. No matter what I do, I can't stop the 10pt DU from energizing. I am working my way down the schematic and the only things I see that it could be - other than the 10pt RE switches which I checked - are the RO switches and a bumper RE that fire the Advance RE. Have not looked at the Advance RE yet either, cause I didn't find it yet. Also, I unplugged the playfield and I still have the 10pt DU energized. Any suggestions?

10ptRE (resized).jpg

10ptDU (resized).jpg

AdvanceRE (resized).jpg

I did try to isolate the playfield - unplugged the jones plug - but the 10pt DU was still stuck on. I'll check those switches anyway. Even if it is one of those switches, why is the 10pt RE not stuck on as well? I keep thinking its something to do with the score reel itself - which I have not cleaned. In fact, I haven't cleaned much at all yet.

I was able to activate the advance unit and it appears to be working - advances and stops. I looked at the switches and the EOS appears to be adjusted, but I will recheck and clean. Kind of stumped on that - both the 10pt RE and the Advance RE are NOT stuck on. Why would the 10pt DU be stuck then?

Yeah - I will take the jumper approach from the DU. That sounds like a good way to isolate the circuit and also diagnose the score reel at the same time. Thanks!

On a slightly different note - my Paddock machine has the long red flipper bats like yours - well, one white and one red. I checked the 1969 catalog, though, and it calls for shorter 3A-7245 flipper bats (2" with raised letters). The longer bats look right on the machine. What replacements would I buy in this case? The white bat is badly damaged.

I did some testing and now I am more confused. I disconnected the O-W wire from the 10pt RE and the coil on the 10pt DU. However, when I touch the wire to the coil - it fires! How can that happen? I thought, based on the schematic, that the Orange and White wire goes from the DU coil to the 10pt RE switch, but nowhere else. It's making me think that there is a short inside the DU somewhere. However, when I run a jumper from the switch on the 10pt RE to the 10pt DU coil, the game will score correctly. It is still having trouble on reset but scores as it should with the jumper. Is there a short somewhere in the O-W wire? Should I run a new wire?

Good to know - seems right to me. I am going to try to find some new flipper bats. Looks like I might have to get the ones with the W logo.

It's not pulling on its own. In fact, the DU coil is energized while the 10pt RE is NOT activated.

Exactly why I was confused - with the jumper in place it appears to work fine during a game, but has trouble on reset. That still doesn't explain why the wire itself (O-W wire from the 10pt RE) is hot even when detached form the RE. ??? I will unscrew the 10pt RE and take a closer look for shorts.

LTR

It stays energized. That's been the problem from the start.

Yes, I have a multimeter. I'll check that next. Yes, I can start the game with the DU energized - if I force that score reel to the 0 position, the other reels will reset and the game will start with ball one.

With the jumper wire in place from the 10pt RE to the coil on the 10pt DU it scores normally, but won't reset.

I will try to take a few short videos today when I'm at the warehouse. It should clear up some of these questions.

I think I’ve isolated the problem to that score reel and perhaps the reset RE circuit. See this video. If I manually set the score reel to zero during reset, I can play a complete game with the jumper in place.

I had time to mess with Paddock yesterday. Here are a couple of updates:

1) The good news is that the only problem on the machine, which I just got and had not worked on previously, appears to be this 10pt RE issue. If I zero out the 10pt RE on restart manually and use the jumper wire to the 10pt RE, I can play a complete game and everything else works.
2) I took apart the 10pt DU to clean it, but was surprised to find no circuit board on this unit! See photo.10pt_DU (resized).jpg
3) The switches on the DU are adjusted correctly and I cleaned them, but still had the same problem, so I checked continuity. I found that the B-Blu wire is in continuity with the O-W wire at all times EXCEPT when the switches are open at the Zero position on the score reel. See photo.DU switch (resized).jpg
4) I looked at the reset RE and the impulse cam switch and can't find any solder bombs or loose connections. See photo.Reset_RE (resized).jpg

Not sure what to do next here. Should the B-Blu wire be hot all of the time? That seems odd as well. It's clear not that the coil is being energized by the B-Blu wire from the Reset RE.
LTR

I rigged a 24v test light yesterday and tested a few things. I've now eliminated the make/break switch on the Reset RE (G-W wire on impulse-A). I also figured out that if all of the score reels are in 0 position, the B-Blu wire is no longer hot. However, as soon as the 100pt or 1000pt score reel is set to >1 the wire is hot again. The only thing that all of these DU switches have in common is the Reset RE (different switches on that relay - B-R, B-Y and B-G). That must be where the short is coming from, but I can't find any issues with the switch gaps or solder bombs or anything obvious. Suggestions?

LTR

23CD79E8-83D6-4477-A67F-527647E89F1C (resized).jpeg

Thanks for the diagram with the X's to clarify. The testing I did was using one lead clipped to black and one to B-Blu. The light stays on unless all drum units are set to zero.

The other testing I did (all with one lead on a black coil wire for reference (lock relay). Here are the results:

Purple X - light is off
Green X - light is off unless 1) impulse-A is moved to close the switch AND the drum units are not all at zero.
Blue X - light is on when drum units are not at zero, but off if all are at zero.

Make more sense? Do you also see why I think there is something going on with a switch on the reset RE?

Cheers,

LTR

Now I’m not so sure. I’m pretty sure I checked that last night. I would have checked at the reset RE (middle M/N sw). I think it was off.

I hope to get to this later this afternoon. To be clear, we are talking about the yellow wire attached to switch C-8 on the reset RE (see my post #31 above).

Yes - we are all on the same page in terms of which switch. Now the bad news.

Purple X - light is off
Green X - light is off unless 1) impulse-A is moved to close the switch AND the drum units are not all at zero.
Blue X - light is on when drum units are not at zero, but off if all are at zero.
Purple X - light is on when drum units are at zero or not at zero.

Does that help? I'm getting more confused, actually.

LTR

Sorry, I am confusing you. The first line of my post was copied and pasted. Let's try this. Remember, I am using one connection on the black terminal of the coil and the other is the test lead.

Purple X - light is on when drum units are at zero or not at zero.
Green X - light is off unless 1) impulse-A is moved to close the switch AND the drum units are not all at zero.
Blue X - light is on when drum units are not at zero, but off if all are at zero.
Red X - not sure what you mean here since I would be connecting black to black.

FYI - I understand electrickery. I've wired up multiple vintage motorcycles from scratch and I currently have 5 working pinball machines that were NOT working when I got them (some problems easier than others). It is this particular problem that is stumping me, not the concepts of voltage, current and resistance.

LTR

Now a logic question: it appears to me from various testing I did tonight that the 10pt DU is a sort of gate keeper for the reset. The other score reels are somehow connected to the switches on the 10pt DU and it initiates the reset when pulsed by the reset RE. Does that make sense? Maybe that's what I am thinking just because there is some short somewhere.

LTR

I’ll have to digest this tomorrow. The pin is at my warehouse space. Promise I’ll get back to it soon.

Yes. The game will reset if I move the 10pt DU to 0. Then if there is a score on one of the other reels, the 10pt RE will lock on. I have been doing the tests with the jumper in place from the switch on the 10pt RE and the 10pt DU coil.

This makes logical sense to me! I will try to get there today so I can try it. If it works, I guess I will have to find some O-W wire to replace it (no easy task in my past wire matching experience). I'm not a purist, but running the jumper forever is a bit tacky.

Let's see if I can make it work - leaving in 30min to go try! Then I will worry about the wire later. May have something with a pattern in my wire I bought for my 1966 Triumph Chopper project (cloth covered wires).

Well, I spent some quality time with my Paddock tonight. I tried to trace that "short" the best I could, but I kept hitting a wall. One of the O-W leads was always hot (yes, I said hot). So I just took a break and started cleaning the other score reels, which needed to be cleaned and had Vasoline on them or something, but not PBR grease - ick. Anyway, I was convinced before that there was something going on with the 0 switch on the 10pt DU. Maybe there was a short or maybe the gap wasn't set right? So I looked at how the other DUs were wired up. Here is the 100pt DU, for example.IMG_3869 (resized).jpeg now here is the 10pt DU. IMG_3870 (resized).jpeg Notice anything strange? Somebody has soldered the O-W lead to the middle switch and the B-Blu lead to the top switch! I was assuming all along that this was a machine that HAD run previously, but it looks like somebody had messed with it and I just wasn't seeing it till now. Did a quick test with some jumpers. IMG_3874 (resized).jpeg Finally! It works! Resets and scores as it should and the 10pt DU does not stay activated. IMG_3875 (resized).jpeg Thanks for trying to help me find the short - turns out the best way to find it was careful observation and not assuming anything was right to begin with!

I appreciate the help. There was no way to know it would be a switched wire. At least I didn't dig into the harness and look for a short. Plus I made a new light tester - useful.

And for the big finale....