(Topic ID: 284702)

Paddock 10pt DU stuck on.

By Tonup69

3 years ago


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  • 64 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by paulace
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There are 64 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 3 years ago
Quoted from Tonup69:

Purple X - light is on when drum units are at zero or not at zero.
Green X - light is off unless 1) impulse-A is moved to close the switch AND the drum units are not all at zero.
Blue X - light is on when drum units are not at zero, but off if all are at zero.

Still trying to figure out what your observations mean....

The light should be on at all times when connected to the purple X - and you saw that...the state of the drum unit zero switches shouldn't matter.

Your result at the green X is confusing me. I think the light should only come on when the make/break switch on the reset relay changes state. That's when your test lead is effectively connected to the yellow wire through that switch. I don't know why the impulse-A and drum unit switches are affecting it, unless the voltage from the yellow wire is coming the other direction through the impulse-A switch and the 10pt D.U. open at zero switch....which it could do if your O-W wire was shorted to the yellow wire.

I think those light bulb results would make sense if you had a short from the yellow wire to the left side of the 10pt coil. That's the same O-W wire that you jumpered earlier. Is the 10 pt coil locked on the whole time you're doing these tests, or have you been using that jumper in place of the original O-W wire?

Hopefully, this machine isn't too far away from you....

#52 3 years ago

I’ll have to digest this tomorrow. The pin is at my warehouse space. Promise I’ll get back to it soon.

#53 3 years ago

Tonup69 - No problem. If it helps, I think you're close. And nice job testing with the light bulb, by the way.

We went about it the long way, but I'm pretty sure from the light bulb tests, the O-W wire is shorted to the yellow wire somewhere. The O-W wire has 2 branches (marked #1 and #2 on the snippet below), one going to the 10pt relay switch (#2), and the other going to the reset circuit (#1). Their physical junction is at the lug of the D.U. coil. When you unsoldered the O-W wire from the D.U. coil lug, there were two wires, right? Are those two wires still twisted/soldered together? If so, separate them and then we can see which of the two wires is shorted.

(Geofflove and dgAmpGuy suggested this around post #28 - sorry it took so long to get there, guys!)

Since #1 is so short, running just between the D.U. coil and D.U. switch, I'm guessing the short is more likely to be somewhere in the longer run of wire - #2.

If that's true, you can re-attach #1 separately to the coil lug, use your jumper to replace the original #2 O-W wire, and hopefully, that will solve the problem.

The original O-W wire will still be shorted to yellow, so make sure the ends don't touch the wrong thing (anything connected to BLACK) - but it will be cut out of the circuit, replaced by the jumper for now, and shouldn't cause you any problems.

Paddock circuit (resized).jpgPaddock circuit (resized).jpg

#54 3 years ago
Quoted from paulace:

I think those light bulb results would make sense if you had a short from the yellow wire to the left side of the 10pt coil. That's the same O-W wire that you jumpered earlier. Is the 10 pt coil locked on the whole time you're doing these tests, or have you been using that jumper in place of the original O-W wire?

Yes. The game will reset if I move the 10pt DU to 0. Then if there is a score on one of the other reels, the 10pt RE will lock on. I have been doing the tests with the jumper in place from the switch on the 10pt RE and the 10pt DU coil.

#55 3 years ago
Quoted from paulace:

Since #1 is so short, running just between the D.U. coil and D.U. switch, I'm guessing the short is more likely to be somewhere in the longer run of wire - #2.

If that's true, you can re-attach #1 separately to the coil lug, use your jumper to replace the original #2 O-W wire, and hopefully, that will solve the problem.

This makes logical sense to me! I will try to get there today so I can try it. If it works, I guess I will have to find some O-W wire to replace it (no easy task in my past wire matching experience). I'm not a purist, but running the jumper forever is a bit tacky.

#56 3 years ago

Well, if you can't find some O-W wire, just use what you have and make a note on the schematic for the next guy.

#57 3 years ago
Quoted from paulace:

Well, if you can't find some O-W wire, just use what you have and make a note on the schematic for the next guy.

Let's see if I can make it work - leaving in 30min to go try! Then I will worry about the wire later. May have something with a pattern in my wire I bought for my 1966 Triumph Chopper project (cloth covered wires).

#58 3 years ago

I'll look at my wire to if I have some Orange&White. If not, put some white tape on orange wire, or the reverse.

#59 3 years ago

Well, I spent some quality time with my Paddock tonight. I tried to trace that "short" the best I could, but I kept hitting a wall. One of the O-W leads was always hot (yes, I said hot). So I just took a break and started cleaning the other score reels, which needed to be cleaned and had Vasoline on them or something, but not PBR grease - ick. Anyway, I was convinced before that there was something going on with the 0 switch on the 10pt DU. Maybe there was a short or maybe the gap wasn't set right? So I looked at how the other DUs were wired up. Here is the 100pt DU, for example.IMG_3869 (resized).jpegIMG_3869 (resized).jpeg now here is the 10pt DU. IMG_3870 (resized).jpegIMG_3870 (resized).jpeg Notice anything strange? Somebody has soldered the O-W lead to the middle switch and the B-Blu lead to the top switch! I was assuming all along that this was a machine that HAD run previously, but it looks like somebody had messed with it and I just wasn't seeing it till now. Did a quick test with some jumpers. IMG_3874 (resized).jpegIMG_3874 (resized).jpeg Finally! It works! Resets and scores as it should and the 10pt DU does not stay activated. IMG_3875 (resized).jpegIMG_3875 (resized).jpeg Thanks for trying to help me find the short - turns out the best way to find it was careful observation and not assuming anything was right to begin with!

#60 3 years ago

Good job, that’s great news. It’s always tough going from a schematic, which is a logical representation of the circuit, to the physical layout and catching errors. My guess is that the solder joint cracked at some point and the wires popped off. Then someone resoldered them assuming that they knew where they went. You’ll find that a good amount of time is spent fixing errors of previous repairs... but it’s all worth it when you get it working!

Dave

#61 3 years ago

Yeah! Sorry if the path we took diagnosing was a little longer than it should have been. I wonder if there was a more efficient way we could have figured that one out..

Well, in any case, you got it done - good job spotting that wiring mix-up! Now go play the hell out of that game!

I feel like I need a cigarette and a shower after that one!

#62 3 years ago

I appreciate the help. There was no way to know it would be a switched wire. At least I didn't dig into the harness and look for a short. Plus I made a new light tester - useful.

#63 3 years ago

And for the big finale....

#64 3 years ago

Ahh...a beautiful sight!

And that light bulb tester is one of my favorite tools when working on EM's. It'll show you lots of stuff a meter won't - the length of a pulse from a switch - the strength of the pulse (the light will be dim if contacts are not making good contact)....very useful! Just be careful when you get into a machine that uses 50V - I've almost pulled out the light bulbs a couple times when I shouldn't have.

Glad you got it sorted! Have fun with it.

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