(Topic ID: 66464)

P3 - More details revealed


By gstellenberg

7 years ago



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  • 35 posts
  • 22 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by Marc
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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    #1 7 years ago

    Our latest P3 prototype incorporates many of our plans for production. We've re-engineered the cabinet and the playfield to provide the traditional gameplay we all know and love while enabling a bunch of new features. We believe pinball manufacturers need to start addressing the needs of consumers, and we're trying to lead by example.

    Read all about it here: http://www.pinballnews.com/games/p3/index6.html

    ... and come see it at Expo. The machine will be playable in our booth, and we're presenting a seminar on Friday at 9:15am.

    Demo video of LCD usage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Vbtx_marr1Q

    - Gerry
    http://www.multimorphic.com

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    #2 7 years ago

    Holy crap!

    Expo is going to be epic!!!

    --
    Rob Anthony
    Pinball Classics
    http://LockWhenLit.com
    Quality Board Work - In Home Service
    borygard at gmail dot com

    #3 7 years ago

    Big thumbs up, Gerry!

    I was one of those guys who was critical, caught up in the little details, like showing that old wood cabinet. I understood you were doing a tech demo, but that plain wood cabinet was such an erection killer.

    Today you have exciting cabinets, backglass, game concepts are fleshed out more, and I see that Lexy's artwork has been reworked which had really mixed response on her unveiling.

    Totally jacked up to see what the expo feedback is.

    #4 7 years ago

    Are the legs like Stern's "The pin", or are there plates that mount shorter legs underneath?

    #5 7 years ago

    Looking great! Can't wait to see you guys at TPF this year.

    #6 7 years ago

    Wish I was going so I can play.

    #7 7 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    Big thumbs up, Gerry!
    I was one of those guys who was critical, caught up in the little details, like showing that old wood cabinet. I understood you were doing a tech demo, but that plain wood cabinet was such an erection killer.
    Today you have exciting cabinets, backglass, game concepts are fleshed out more, and I see that Lexy's artwork has been reworked which had really mixed response on her unveiling.
    Totally jacked up to see what the expo feedback is.

    Thanks, Frolic, I appreciate you saying this. The unfortunate reality is that it takes a while to build a pinball platform from the ground up, and we're not done yet. However, we're finally at the stage where it doesn't take much imagination to see where we're going.

    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    Are the legs like Stern's "The pin", or are there plates that mount shorter legs underneath?

    There are 3/8" thick metal plates welded to the top of each leg (2" square steel tubes) that screw into the playfield frame. These things are solid (overkill in fact).

    Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

    Looking great! Can't wait to see you guys at TPF this year.

    Excellent. See you there! Be sure to introduce yourself to us.

    - Gerry

    #8 7 years ago

    So what exactly will be on demo at expo? how playable is the p3?

    #9 7 years ago
    Quoted from gstellenberg:

    There are 3/8" thick metal plates welded to the top of each leg (2" square steel tubes) that screw into the playfield frame. These things are solid (overkill in fact).

    I'm not sure if I like the look yet, but at least it prevents cabinet damage (at least that with artwork on it).

    #10 7 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    So what exactly will be on demo at expo? how playable is the p3?

    It will at least be flippable.

    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    I'm not sure if I like the look yet, but at least it prevents cabinet damage (at least that with artwork on it).

    Well, in the case of cab damage, you can fairly easily replace a full side panel. We've tried to make it fairly easy to service anything on the machine. Spending hours/days/weeks in the garage repairing cabinets and/or replacing decals should be a thing of the past.

    - Gerry
    http://www.multimorphic.com

    #11 7 years ago

    Are you in town yet Gerry?

    #12 7 years ago

    So how was p3 looking at expo?

    #13 7 years ago
    Quoted from jeffgoldstein2:

    So how was p3 looking at expo?

    Gah, I hate to say it cuz I think Gerry and P3 are awesome & I loved it at PPE....but...yikes, it seems to have gotten worse.

    The art & animation for the two titles are awful... Sub-Playstation 1 level presentation, and on top of that - nothing interactive was running. It was like a step back...like flipping a whitewood. The flippers seemed worse than PPE and were breaking while I was playing it.

    I want P3 to succeed so bad...but the impression at Expo wasn't good.

    #14 7 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    The art & animation for the two titles are awful... Sub-Playstation 1 level presentation, and on top of that - nothing interactive was running. It was like a step back...like flipping a whitewood. The flippers seemed worse than PPE and were breaking while I was playing it.

    I want P3 to succeed so bad...but the impression at Expo wasn't good.

    Yea, I actually thought it wasn't a complete machine so I didn't even bother to walk up and play it, it looked THAT incomplete. I want this to succeed too, but until P3 stops doing demos and starts making at least semi-complete themed pinballs, I don't think most people can see the vision.

    #15 7 years ago

    That's a shame. It seemed like a good idea.

    #16 7 years ago

    Well, if it's feedback they want - the way the legs sit under the cabinet, looks truly awful.

    The concept is interesting, the backbox looks good, but seems like a way to go yet.

    A version of AFM would have been a knock out for this system.

    #17 7 years ago

    It's time to stop trying to sell a machine, and start trying to make one. It's almost perfect, other than not working.

    #18 7 years ago

    Any pics or video online? I'd like to see it.

    #19 7 years ago

    Tried to find you at Expo Gerry to talk translites, but managed to miss you.

    #20 7 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Gah, I hate to say it cuz I think Gerry and P3 are awesome & I loved it at PPE....but...yikes, it seems to have gotten worse.

    SIGH...I hate to say this too, but seeing P3 was my most anticipated part of expo. I am a paid-to-current pre-order, but I've never really spent much time talking to Gerry or playing the early prototypes. I had watched other people play the demo at other shows, but was really looking forward to getting up close and personal with the 2 new games this year. I had a major sinking feeling when I saw it on Thurs. I couldn't agree more with every word of what rarehero said above. I desperately want Gerry (super nice guy) and P3 (awesome platform concept) to succeed, but ouch! Plus, I thought they were initially supposed to release around the end of this year, and now it sounds like it will be end of next. They should take all the time they need, but the trend seems concerning.

    I still have faith that the outcome can be good, but what was shown at expo was a step back on all fronts.

    #21 7 years ago

    Ouch indeed... it's tough to read these reviews, especially on the road after an exhausting (but fantastic) weekend.

    Our goal was to get to expo with playable but incomplete versions of both games, but clearly we didn't get there, and since we're now working in a more mature gaming environment (unity3d), we couldn't run our old demo software either (and I didn't want to come to expo again with the same old demo mini-games anyway).

    Quoted from Cheeks:

    ... but what was shown at expo was a step back on all fronts.

    This statement means we failed in our attempts to show off the strides we made on the platform infrastructure (engineering efforts that people building traditional style machines don't need to make). I am extremely proud of our new cabinet with inset side panels and easily changeable artwork, not to mention our re-engineered playfield system with easily removable assemblied, including the flippers, pf surface, lcd display, and upper pf modules.

    Next steps are to address the remaining flipper issues, fix the legs (move them out to the cab edges), and attack software development in the new environment.

    I try to be honest and accurate about delivery timeframes, and I try to summarize up to date development status in our monthly email updates. Please pm me if you want to be added to the list.

    Please keep the feedback coming, even the constructive criticisms. We need to know all of your opinions to ensure the P3 lives up to all of our high expectations.

    The P3 is my passion and my life right now, and I'm doing my best to build this paradigm-changing machine. Clearly we still have a lot of work to do, but with course corrections based on your feedback while we continue developing, we'll bring the vision to life.

    As always, please feel free to contact me privately with any questions or concerns.

    - Gerry
    http://www.multimorphic.com

    #22 7 years ago

    Didn't get a chance to play P3 or anything but I did talk with Gerry and obviously he is a great passionate guy. I will tell you this though, when he magically peeled the side-art on the cabinet in front of me and was able to switch it with different art in 10 seconds It definitely gave me a bit of a "wow" factor. I think he is being very innovative and given enough time can/will produce some very cool stuff for pinball!

    #23 7 years ago
    Quoted from gstellenberg:

    The P3 is my passion and my life right now, and I'm doing my best to build this paradigm-changing machine.

    P3 is by far the most innovative project I have heard of. I hope to see one working prototype some day... please visit France with one when you can.

    PS: From the pictures I saw, I like the cabinet.

    #24 7 years ago

    I think we as a community are TOO fickle.
    I personally want innovation over "same ole looks"... P3 is a great example of moving pinball in the direction it needs to go.
    They move to a new leg tech... we bash them.
    They move to a video in pf... we bash them. They move to a static PF on video monitor... we bash them.
    They are honest about delivery schedules... and their staffing concerns; not taking/using pre-order funds to fund the development... we bash them.

    There is a lot to be said for keeping what is right about pinball... but bashing them for every thing they do different seems counter-intuitive for our hobby.

    I didn't go to expo - haven't seen their latest demos... and have no affiliation other than being the same city.
    Just seems that "we" as in the community would rather just have another Stern-like company running MultiMorphic.

    How about some POSITIVE comments? Like... what are they doing right?

    I like that they are supporting community efforts like open-source, community driving products with their P3-Roc controller. Everyone (including PPS) close sources their game code... AND their hardware designs. Look at the community of custom pinballs growing out of P3s work.

    #25 7 years ago
    Quoted from gstellenberg:

    Ouch indeed... it's tough to read these reviews, especially on the road after an exhausting (but fantastic) weekend.
    Our goal was to get to expo with playable but incomplete versions of both games, but clearly we didn't get there, and since we're now working in a more mature gaming environment (unity3d), we couldn't run our old demo software either (and I didn't want to come to expo again with the same old demo mini-games anyway).

    This statement means we failed in our attempts to show off the strides we made on the platform infrastructure (engineering efforts that people building traditional style machines don't need to make). I am extremely proud of our new cabinet with inset side panels and easily changeable artwork, not to mention our re-engineered playfield system with easily removable assemblied, including the flippers, pf surface, lcd display, and upper pf modules.
    Next steps are to address the remaining flipper issues, fix the legs (move them out to the cab edges), and attack software development in the new environment.
    I try to be honest and accurate about delivery timeframes, and I try to summarize up to date development status in our monthly email updates. Please pm me if you want to be added to the list.
    Please keep the feedback coming, even the constructive criticisms. We need to know all of your opinions to ensure the P3 lives up to all of our high expectations.
    The P3 is my passion and my life right now, and I'm doing my best to build this paradigm-changing machine. Clearly we still have a lot of work to do, but with course corrections based on your feedback while we continue developing, we'll bring the vision to life.
    As always, please feel free to contact me privately with any questions or concerns.
    - Gerry
    http://www.multimorphic.com

    Moving legs to cab edges will make it look so much better

    #26 7 years ago

    I really like the new larger monitor in the latest prototype. The previous proto had space around the monitor that would have been devoid of artwork due to the changeable games - but with that new monitor the whole lower surface is now the screen, so the edges aren't an issue. Looks much nicer overall, to me.

    #27 7 years ago

    It's the double edged sword of bringing works in progress to expo. Gerry seems to be taking the constructive criticism in a professional and mature way. He is making machines to sell to people, some of this feedback may be difficult to hear, but better to hear it now when changes can still be made and create a product that will be everything it can be.

    Maximum respect, Gerry!

    #28 7 years ago

    Apologies for the upcoming ramble, but I want to make my thoughts clear regarding Gerry and the P3.

    Quoted from gstellenberg:

    it's tough to read these reviews, especially on the road after an exhausting (but fantastic) weekend.

    I'll be honest, I really struggled with whether to comment publicly or not. Gerry seems like such a great guy, and I do believe that the end product could be absolutely stellar. I want to be publicly touting this system. I don't get how people seem to be either Stern/JJP and a complete fanboy/eternal cynic, but I really WANT to be a P3 fanboy. Gerry has been approaching this the right way with the innovations, it has just been a long road to travel getting people to understand the vision.

    Quoted from Zitt:

    bashing them for every thing they do different seems counter-intuitive for our hobby.

    I hope this was not in response to my comment. I don't feel like I was bashing. I barely ever express negative comments online, and I don't want my comments to be seen this way. I was hugely disappointed when I saw P3, but I felt better after I talked to Gerry. I was probably hoping for too much. I thought there would be playable (meaning with the game software) demos. Turns out there was ripped footage on a loop and all you could do was flip the ball around non-interactively. After talking to Gerry, I understand the video rip was lesser quality than the end product. Given that, I thought the screens with the monster wading through the water looked cool. I thought the cart racing screen quality was good enough, but it was distracting. On the other hand, the simulated playfield with "lighted inserts" was really rough. Hopefully that was just a mock-up.

    With the innovations these guys are bringing, with a quality designer like Nordman on board, and some of the other "secret" things Gerry told me about, I'm still optimistic. I think the playfield LCD art is the biggest risk since nobody else in the industry has tried to animate on this level before (well maybe except for the P2K artists).

    Quoted from Zitt:

    They are honest about delivery schedules... and their staffing concerns; not taking/using pre-order funds to fund the development... we bash them.

    I wasn't bashing them. Gerry is the only place I know that gives a "state of the union" on a regular basis. I love getting his update emails and value the transparency. I respect the staffing issue and the need for external funding. If I had $1M laying around, I'd invest in the P3. Maybe I missed it in one of the updates, I just didn't realize until very recently that the date had been pushed to the end of next year. Not bashing, just disappointed.

    I really wish there was more enthusiasm around this product, but I can see where it has been difficult for people to connect to the vision. People are visual, so hopefully Multimorphic can pull together some stuff that shows well to build anticipation from the masses. You couldn't pick a better, more passionate guy to back.

    Viva la P3.

    #29 7 years ago
    Quoted from Cheeks:

    I hope this was not in response to my comment.

    It was... but probably not you specifically... just the trend I seem to be seeing on Pinside.
    Haters come out for Stern. Haters come out for JJP. Now the Haters are hating on PPS because they are remaking classics. People hate ColorDMD because they are too expensive. I'm just tried of all the hate.

    Every single one of these pinball companies have the same problem... they have to deal with the hate.

    I'm tried of seeing pinball machines with thru-hole technology routed in the early 1990s. We need to see more of a different "edgy" implementation.... not just rehashing of the same bullsh*t.

    Even if I don't like the themes of Multimorphic - I fully support their work... because one day I hope to have one of their higher tech machines.

    If I had $1M laying around, I'd invest in the P3.

    Maybe what needs to happen is to test the waters of Kickstarter / crowd funding for Multimorphic... I don't think it'll work; but maybe. I was just on their site today.... looking at 3D printers.
    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ordsolutions/5-color-material-3d-filament-printer-made-in-canad?ref=category
    "the amount you pledge will be applied to a future order"

    Once I have Star Trek: Mirror Universe project complete... maybe I'll join the P3-Roc crowd for something new. Did you hear that... Gerry... I'm coming for you... now would be the time to get out of the market! (J/K)

    #30 7 years ago

    Didn't get to see Expo - too far for a quick trip from Australia. Definitely going to pop over next year after reading reviews about the whole thing though.

    Two quick points - I'm an early adopter and put down my deposit because I see the potential possible. Seems you're doomed if you show progress which is a little slow, or if you hold back on revelations you get criticised for not being transparent enough. With the technology in use here, changes and upgrades will be possible for years, and much more dramatic than small Stern/ JJP code upgrades. I'm looking forward to the final product, and willing to wait.

    Second point, a personal thank you to Gerry. I was burned in the Australian WOZLE fiasco, so lost $9500. Gerry has put my instalments on hold due to this due to the personal (and marital) strain it caused. Very understanding and very appreciated.

    Keep working hard on the P3, I think it holds the future progress in its platform, and crosses many boundaries.

    #31 7 years ago

    I haven't seen the pin in real life, only pictures.

    Don't take it too hard Gerry , I think what you are doing is awesome especially engineering wise with the mechanisms, very impressive.

    My constructive criticism is

    The legs need to come out as it represents a "The Pin" or all the kiddly machines at the arcade centres, this will change the stance and make it look like a high end machine. In the photos the legs look like square sections (though could be wrong as only one photo to see), if they are maybe try and machine a profile to lessen the kiddy machine look.

    With the graphics, the designs look great but need a little more realism added to the translite and cabinet art to lessen the kiddy machine look.

    Also the play buttons appear raised fastened to a what appears to be a sub assembly, can this sub-assembly be more flush mounting.

    Overall I think you are doing well and just needs some cosmetic improvements and by the sounds a few minor mechanically improvements. Keep it going.

    Also like Zitt said, it is ashame there are so many haters, what you are doing is a massive undertaking and fuelled by pinball passion - keep it up.

    I too am watching and will in the near future be getting a p-roc system.

    #32 7 years ago

    I was a little disappointed for Gerry, and how the timing of expo played out with the progress of the games. I am a big supporter of him as I am a P-ROC custom game developer. In some ways what was there this year was a step back and in other ways it was a step forward. Last year the game could be played, the interaction with the playfield could be seen, and is very cool (playing asteroids with a pinball being the weapon was wild). This year that was not the case, as Gerry pointed out, they have migrated to a different set of tools, etc. and they have in some ways started over, and I am guessing they just did not have enough time to get everything they wanted done for expo (something I can totally relate too with my custom game). As we all know, things often take longer then we think or want. I also have to wonder if working on two games at once was a factor in this as well.

    Where it was a step forward was in the user friendless of the platform from an ownership/maintenance standpoint, and I'm not talking about the 10 seconds to change side art (which is way cool), but the thirty seconds it takes to replace the upper portion of the playfield, where it would vary from game to game. The simplicity of pulling out the entire flipper and sling shot assembly to be able to work on it outside the game, (e.g. on the comfort of your couch). How the LCD panel just slides right out. Unfortunately these are things you don't really see unless you actually went to his seminar or had him demo it for you.

    Clearly Gerry listens. Last year the cabinet had no backbox, and the message was loud and clear that removing that was too much of a revolutionary change for most people. He changed that, and brought a cabinet that is still evolutionary, but more palatable to the community. It sounds like he is taking the feedback about the legs and going to make some changes there.

    There are also some very other cool things in the platform (e.g. how the trough is at the top, and can throw a ton of balls into play), and hope that next year he will be wowing everyone.

    I have no doubt that a few of years from now, there will be dozens of P^3 games, and many will be 'open source' as those who want to create games to the themes of their liking will be able to, without having to do the amount of heavy lifting required today to create a custom game.

    I am a strong believer then Gerry is going to succeed in creating something special.

    #33 7 years ago

    Well, people complain about lack of innovation in pinball, but P3 is the extreme example of a completely innovative approach. I get pretty excited to think about the gameplay possibilities that the platform will hopefully enable someday.

    I'm happy to wait for it as well, realizing this sort of thing typical takes many iterations to get "right". I'm rooting for them and watch their progress with anticipation. This type of dramatic re-do approach could revolutionize pinball someday.

    Keep up the good work guys. Pinball crowd here is extremely fickle, they complain when something is released "early" and not polished enough for them, then they turn around and complain when something is delayed to add polish (STLE). Basically, they like to complain. Gives them something to do I guess.

    #34 7 years ago

    Just a shout out to Gerry for paying the Expo floor space fees so all the PROC games could be there. This is what made me pony up and travel to Expo! Very classy, and it was great to see all the home-brew games enabled by your boards. I was just blown away by all these games; personal favorite being Cactus Canyon Continued

    I played the P3 system at Expo and attended the seminar. As others have already stated, I'm fully supportive and just wanted to pass along some energy and passion to keep you going! Your logic is sound and the vision is evident. Can't wait to see what you have coming down the pipeline.

    -Ferros

    P.S. - Thanks for always taking the constructive criticism in stride.

    3 weeks later
    #35 7 years ago

    I just stumbled accross this thread and here are a few of my thoughts.

    - I first saw this at the 2012 TPF and thought it was a neat gimmick but didn't even take the time to play it.

    - Next time I saw it was at the 2012 HAAG show in Houston. I flipped it and Gerry asked me my thoughts. I said "you really want them?", he said yes. My first comment to him was that the flippers sucked, plain and simple. He obviously didn't appreciate my comment but I explained what my thoughts were and he took it in stride.

    - Fast forward to Expo 2013. I walked up to the game, Gerry explained where the project was, what had been done, and the new cabinet. He asked me if I wanted to flip it and I said nah, I did last year. He of course insisted so I did. First thing I said was "you finally go the flippers right!". Were they perfect, no, but what an improvement. The game was very basic and just flipped the ball but man the difference in the flippers was incredible from the previous version I played.

    - Saw Gerry again this past weekend at the 2013 HAAG show in Houston. The game was a little further along than it was at Expo. One of the things that stood out to me were some of the animations on the screen. One that I thought was really cool was when you flip the ball across the screen it makes a wake in the water, I couldn't get enough of that...very cool. Also, the "wooky" (as I like to refer to Nordman's bigfoot) reacted to ball hits very accurately was also neat to see.

    The P3 project obviously has a ways to go but seeing the advancements from last year to this year has started to turn me into a fan.

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