So is there a Pinside shop?
(Topic ID: 251850)
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Any one that has insight on this, it would be appreciated. So when you buy a drawing and it's rolled in a tube, the COA and invoice are rolled up too, with the drawing. Any chance of that COA or invoice ink bleeding onto the drawing if left in the tube as-is/unopened?
3 years later
Quoted from rogerb:We listed 10 original prints up for auction on eBay yesterday. Low starting bid of $25. If interested here is the link for the Cactus Canyon Bad Guy Hat.
ebay.com link: itm
Sorry but this has to be said. Are you insuring that you are not selling additional copies of CAD drawings someone already bought in the past couple of years since Pinball Vault opened? I see some discrepancies already with drawings I bought in the past. There could be multiple copies of the same drawing, or slight version changes. We were told that we were buying unique drawings and that subsequent copies would be offered to the original buyer for a small fee or destroyed, but never re-sold to multiple buyers.. Otherwise, refunds might be in order. Hand drawn drawings are a different story entirely, but printed CAD drawings' uniqueness is a trust agreement and has to be enforced. Especially for CAD playfield layout drawings that command a lot of money. I bought the Medievel Madness and the NBA Fastbreak playfield layout drawings but I see them being sold again.
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:I was looking at these because I think they are neat. Look at the upper right corner of this drawing on the thing hand, which I think is pretty neat.
This is a standard schematic, and the upper right corner of these is used for version control. You will see that this is revision 2 of this schematic. The first revision (Rev -) is what you are thinking of as the original drawing. Rev 1 was used to add, "note 3". If you open it up you will see a octagon with a 3 in it next to notes, and the note "Item shown is vendor quantity as indicated". Revision 2 (this version) was updated July 28th, 1999 and was updated to change one reference on the sheet from imperial to metric measurement. If this is an original drawing, the only part that would be original would be the change from imperial to metric in one small part, done seven years after the original drawing schematic was created and shortly before the closing of Bally Williams. This drawing was made when Pinball 2000 was on the line. It does appear to be an authentic Bally Schematic from what I can tell.
ebay.com link: itm
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That's not the point I am making. I am talking about the Pinball Vault's policy regarding selling a CAD drawing that might have multiple copies of the same version or multiple versions of the same drawing and what is it that you are actually buying. Pinball Vault's stated policy:
"If we find another version of the same playfield after the sale, we will contact the original buyer and offer that drawing for a small fee. If the original buyer is not interest then the blueprint will be destroyed. The Pinball Vault will NOT sell multiple versions of the same drawing to different customers."
The same policy applies to additional copies of the same version or revision. A buyer is buying uniqueness not just a copy, that was the handshake agreement. Authenticity was never the concern for me. There could be multiple copies of the same production drawing in the stack of drawings Pinball Vault bought, which were all used at Bally Williams, but when it was sold, all copies and versions were also sold to that buyer. I am not saying inauthentic copies were made after the fact. The drawings are hand signed and hand dated to pin production for authenticity, just not uniqueness guaranteed if it is a CAD drawing. I hope that's clear, I'll take it up with Roger and Steve but just wanted to make some observations here and that there appears to be a mistake. A playfield production drawing that is sold as 1 of 10 to you versus a production drawing that is sold as all the existing copies, versions and revisions to you is the point here. That would affect the price and agreement as well. Pinball Vault should probably have gone thru the whole stack of drawings and inventoried all of it before selling them to keep track of their policy. I think they were just going through some and selling them as they went through partially and that would cause running into issues like this. Or I could be wrong, that's possible too. 
Quoted from rogerb:I talked at length with the license holder and we all agree that the language on this policy should have been and will be clarified to avoid misunderstandings. The intent was that direct copies (like from the CAD files) would not be offered for sale to the collector community. If a revision print is discovered then the print would be offered to the original purchaser at a reduced price mainly to recover shipping and handling costs. I do not know of any other business that would offer such a guarantee. This creates a situation where the sale is never finished. If 5 years from now we find a pile of prints with a revision of a part that was sold, we are obligated to track down the original purchaser and offer the print to him. It is a real pain actually but we will honor it within reason.
I looked at the print scan that was sold to KozMckPinball on Pinball Vault. It is by far the most interesting MM playfield print. You can still find it on the Pinball Vault as a "sold" item. I compared it with the two other prints that we recently found. I also discovered that I messed on up the Attack from Mars print on eBay. It is actually MM. The one up on eBay is to show the locations of the factory installed Mylar. There is also a copy of this Mylar print as well. That one will be included at no charge to the buyer. The Mylar scan you can take a look at since it is on eBay right now. The second one is also different from and it shows the locations, colors, and part numbers of the inserts. Currently that print is not been offered for sale.
Based on what the owner of the artwork told me, these two prints would be considered different prints as they are not revisions. However we are only human and can make mistakes. Anyone that has purchased artwork in the past from the Pinball Vault just needs to contact me if they have a complaint. I have found that reasonable people can almost always work things out. What I am not going to do is get drawn into a debate on what constitutes a revision or a original print. What I can tell you that there is zero interest in selling copies of these prints. The future use of the cad files are to remake pinball machines and parts for the pinball community. That is it. Since we had no further use of these drawings the decision was made to offer the originals to the collecting community. We want these to be exclusive one of a kind items and not a mass produced product. Hopefully this provides some clarification on this issue.
Thanks Roger this just needed some communication and clarification on the policy which you just did eloquently. I agree with your specific assessment here regarding MM playfield drawings.
Quoted from rogerb:If a revision print is discovered then the print would be offered to the original purchaser at a reduced price mainly to recover shipping and handling costs. I do not know of any other business that would offer such a guarantee. This creates a situation where the sale is never finished. If 5 years from now we find a pile of prints with a revision of a part that was sold, we are obligated to track down the original purchaser and offer the print to him. It is a real pain actually but we will honor it within reason.
Just a kind observation. Knowing the full inventory up-front would make this better structured at the point of sale. Maybe that's not possible though, just my 2 cents. Thanks for your feedback Roger!
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