(Topic ID: 251850)

Own a piece of pinball history. Original blueprints


By avspin

62 days ago



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  • 167 posts
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  • Latest reply 5 days ago by JimFNB
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    #51 61 days ago

    I have originals pen/pencil on velum & mylar, blueprints on velum & paper. I'm only selling drawings that were used in creation, production, design, approval, etc. If there is no hand written notes, annotations, corrections, or signatures they will not be sold.
    I really think these are collectible. The process of creating a pinball machine is very labor intensive and having an actual working drawing can bring you closer to that process. For me there is also emotion. Holding something that created the game I've been playing is special, at least to me.

    #52 60 days ago

    I for one think these could be a very nice piece to hang on a wall. There may not be much practical value in them but they are in keeping/emphasize with the mechanical/engineering aspect of pinball. Pretty cool stuff.

    #53 60 days ago
    Quoted from ArcadiusMaximus:

    Yea except they'll sit in private collections collecting dust rather than be available to all.

    You will be more than welcome to come see Arrow Head and Rocket's anytime. And actually play those games while you are there.

    Otherwise they would sit in a museum drawer or filing cabinet somewhere, where nobody gives a shit about either game.

    #54 60 days ago

    This is all too cool. Following. I can see these selling for wildly different prices.

    #55 59 days ago

    As an Engineer, I would love to own some of this history. Hopefully you can find some from Pinbot, taxi, or Sorcerer.

    Some of the newer ones appear to be done in Autocad, but they still have the hand written approval dates on them.

    #56 59 days ago

    I'm in for any thing earthshaker

    #57 59 days ago

    Link for the auctions - ebay.com link

    #58 59 days ago

    Looking forward to checking out the EM era ones, older the better for me!

    #59 59 days ago

    How is it known that these are "one of a kind" items. I was looking specifically at the AFM ramp print. I collect a good bit of art and pinball art specifically and I just don't see how it can be described as a one off unless it is truly known what exist. COA doesn't really mean a lot if the actual quantity is unknown.

    #60 59 days ago
    Quoted from TaylorVA:

    How is it known that these are "one of a kind" items. I was looking specifically at the AFM ramp print. I collect a good bit of art and pinball art specifically and I just don't see how it can be described as a one off unless it is truly known what exist. COA doesn't really mean a lot if the actual quantity is unknown.

    On the plus side these are not copies being made from the original blueprints he is selling them as he is pulling them out of boxes or drawers. The negative side of things is there were likely at least several copies of each because they would have been circulated to different departments as well as to outside vendors.

    Sadly it looks like the stuff is sub assemblies and not prints of actual playfield layouts etc which would likely be more money. I don't think his "original" listing price is out of line on these but I don't see any of them bringing "big dollars" because of what they are. Kind of a cool piece of pinball history but how many people are really going to care.

    It is nice seeing them being saved instead of going to a landfill but after Planetary Pinball, eBay, Paypal, & Postal Service get their share I doubt if the seller is going to be making much money selling these. Hopefully it will be profitable enough for him to continue but I guess only time will tell.

    #61 59 days ago
    Quoted from too-many-pins:

    On the plus side these are not copies being made from the original blueprints he is selling them as he is pulling them out of boxes or drawers. The negative side of things is there were likely at least several copies of each because they would have been circulated to different departments as well as to outside vendors.
    Sadly it looks like the stuff is sub assemblies and not prints of actual playfield layouts etc which would likely be more money. I don't think his "original" listing price is out of line on these but I don't see any of them bringing "big dollars" because of what they are. Kind of a cool piece of pinball history but how many people are really going to care.
    It is nice seeing them being saved instead of going to a landfill but after Planetary Pinball, eBay, Paypal, & Postal Service get their share I doubt if the seller is going to be making much money selling these. Hopefully it will be profitable enough for him to continue but I guess only time will tell.

    I think it is great that they are being offered up, I am just questioning the COA and want to know how they know these are One of kind items. From what you are saying they most likely are not, which definitely will affect value IMO.

    #62 59 days ago

    would love anything from monster bash.

    #63 59 days ago

    I'd be most interested in items or assemblies that say "pinball". Every machine has flippers so a drawing of that, framed and hung on the wall would be a nice touch to a game room. Same goes for a pop bumper assembly or slings.

    Watching the auctions to see what comes up.

    #64 59 days ago
    Quoted from TaylorVA:

    I think it is great that they are being offered up, I am just questioning the COA and want to know how they know these are One of kind items. From what you are saying they most likely are not, which definitely will affect value IMO.

    At this point in time they are likely one of a kind (or at least the only one known to exist) but when these were done there were likely a dozen or more copies of any given blueprint. Original would likely have stayed with design department, copies would have be sent to production meetings, machine design department, out for vendor estimates to get production quotes, etc. They do not pass original designs around for all of this they send copies which would be returned to the drafting and design department for revisions.

    When OP posted these I wanted to verify he wasn't making copies of these copies and he said he wasn't. That isn't saying there are not other copies in files somewhere else or even second copies of some of these in the piles of stuff he is working through.

    When a company makes blueprints there are usually plenty of them for each original drawing. The question is if any of the others have survived. These are not like original drawings of playfield art or backglasses that typically bring hundreds of dollars. These are design department blueprints of sub assemblies and as OP stated above Blueprints are all copies - not the original drawings.

    They do have value but I don't see these having a great deal of value beyond something kind of different to hang in your gameroom.

    #65 59 days ago

    Typically blue prints don't have wet signatures on them like these do. I suspect most of these came out of the design department.

    #66 59 days ago
    Quoted from avspin:

    Put up 14 auctions to start at 9-15am PST 9/21 search pinballvault. I'll add a link once they go up.
    There is stuff from TAF, TOTAN, ATM, Shadow, Scared Stiff, No Fear, Corvette, BOP, and more.

    Can you provide a better definition photo the shadow one. The eBay listing is quite low res and hard to see

    #67 59 days ago
    Quoted from Stuieb84:

    Can you provide a photo of what the shadow one looks like as quite keen on that one

    ebay.com link » Original Williams Working Blueprint From The Shadow Pinball

    #68 58 days ago

    HMU if you find docs specific to Silverball Mania, my first in depth restore.

    #69 58 days ago

    Sounds nifty. Can someone put up an auction link for the computer illiterate? Thanks!

    #70 58 days ago
    Quoted from sataneatscheese:

    Sounds nifty. Can someone put up an auction link for the computer illiterate? Thanks!

    Already did in post 34

    #71 58 days ago
    Quoted from TaylorVA:

    I think it is great that they are being offered up, I am just questioning the COA and want to know how they know these are One of kind items. From what you are saying they most likely are not, which definitely will affect value IMO.

    And never mind they are less and less a unique piece (even if everyone is different) when they become common place because hundreds or thousands of drawings are sold.

    They were unique talking pieces when they were things that normally wouldn't be in the public's hands.. because they were internal to the factories. The fact it was outside that process kind of made it so interesting.. even if the subject matter itself wasn't all that fascinating. Now, that will be diminished because similar drawings will be so common in the open market.

    The original art and concept stuff is a bit more interesting because it has real creative aspects and uniqueness. The mechanical assembly drawings are less so IMO.. and the 'rarity' (if you even want to call it that) of having such drawings goes down by the day.

    #72 58 days ago

    I wonder when Gottlieb Development, LLC will sell their drawings? Maybe the Vari-Target or Roto-Target could fetch fifty bucks.

    #73 58 days ago
    Quoted from Atari_Daze:

    HMU if you find docs specific to Silverball Mania, my first in depth restore.

    Me too on SBM - looks like you may have a couple bidders in that auction, should any items for that game exist in your stacks!

    #74 58 days ago

    This is very, very cool stuff. A glimpse back in time-

    FYI, true blueprints do not like the sun at all. If you are planning to frame and hang, keep them out of bright light.

    #75 58 days ago

    Interesting, but tbh not really seeing the *collectibility* a few people might want something specific to a game they own, but there are dozens of blueprints for any given game. Designers and various people have been on here selling prints of pf art, proto playfields, proofs etc over the years and often times they sit so unless these are fairly cheap I can't see their being a huge market. As for their being a COA, its probably as necessary as the cheap printer coa my avatar le came with, ie not worth the paper its printed on.

    #76 58 days ago
    Quoted from dung:

    Interesting, but tbh not really seeing the *collectibility* a few people might want something specific to a game they own, but there are dozens of blueprints for any given game. Designers and various people have been on here selling prints of pf art, proto playfields, proofs etc over the years and often times they sit so unless these are fairly cheap I can't see their being a huge market. As for their being a COA, its probably as necessary as the cheap printer coa my avatar le came with, ie not worth the paper its printed on.

    Mr. Personality's signature is absolutely priceless.

    #77 58 days ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    I wonder when Gottlieb Development, LLC will sell their drawings? Maybe the Vari-Target or Roto-Target could fetch fifty bucks.

    download (2) (resized).jpg
    #78 58 days ago
    Quoted from dung:

    Interesting, but tbh not really seeing the *collectibility* a few people might want something specific to a game they own, but there are dozens of blueprints for any given game. Designers and various people have been on here selling prints of pf art, proto playfields, proofs etc over the years and often times they sit so unless these are fairly cheap I can't see their being a huge market. As for their being a COA, its probably as necessary as the cheap printer coa my avatar le came with, ie not worth the paper its printed on.

    I think the value is completely dependent on what the drawing is. For example, I have a Genco bball game and during the repair process I downloaded the patent application for the manikin. It contains detailed, exploded drawings of the mechanism. You can immediately recognize it as the bball player in the game. An original drawing with notes on it would be something I would pay a whole lot more than $20 for and I suspect others would do the same, driving the price into three figures. I would buy it, not as a collectible per se, but as an interesting piece of art. On the other hand, a drawing of the start button? Not interested.

    #79 58 days ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    And never mind they are less and less a unique piece (even if everyone is different) when they become common place because hundreds or thousands of drawings are sold.
    They were unique talking pieces when they were things that normally wouldn't be in the public's hands.. because they were internal to the factories. The fact it was outside that process kind of made it so interesting.. even if the subject matter itself wasn't all that fascinating. Now, that will be diminished because similar drawings will be so common in the open market.
    The original art and concept stuff is a bit more interesting because it has real creative aspects and uniqueness. The mechanical assembly drawings are less so IMO.. and the 'rarity' (if you even want to call it that) of having such drawings goes down by the day.

    When I was at Gene's before the Rick took everything, that I saw actual pallets full of this stuff. We are talking about drawings measured in pounds of paper.
    Book after book after book all sloppily stacked up with all these old drawings. Neat to look at but far from anything collectible.

    #80 57 days ago

    Me and my friends run a pinball spot in Indianapolis called The PinVault. If you are ever in town please get ahold of us so we can do an event called The Pinball Vault at the PinVault.

    #81 56 days ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    When I was at Gene's before the Rick took everything, that I saw actual pallets full of this stuff. We are talking about drawings measured in pounds of paper.
    Book after book after book all sloppily stacked up with all these old drawings. Neat to look at but far from anything collectible.

    I'd argue that point a bit.

    While there is ton of it, for people looking at the history of how these games were made, this sort of stuff is a treasure trove. Having said that, at the current point in time, there are almost no true historians for that sort of thing - and maybe there never will be. If that is the case, they probably aren't overly collectible and aren't worth much beyond a cool conversation piece for a lot of people. If, however, a historical value is found in them at a later point, the price to return even a fraction of the drawings will be significantly higher, which would increase their value significantly and raise their collectively.

    The thing is it's rare that we know what is going to be collectible at any given point in time. When I first started picking up pinball machines, people were certain that they wouldn't be worth much in the future because no one was ever going to get parts to fix those machines when they broke, so the belief was we'd just end up with less and less machines becoming less and less valuable as their working parts dried up. A change to the market - the introduction of repro parts - played a huge role in turning that around and making things more valuable.

    While it's less likely, an increase in the curiosity of the history of pinball could easily make these nearly priceless. It would take one or two people with really deep pockets instead of a larger movement, however. Until them, they are fascinating.

    I own a set of blueprints for Galaxian that I bought a number of years ago. I don't know where they are now, but I do know that I looked through them for a while and found them fascinating as I really like that game's history. Those are mostly diagrams of screws and cabinet joints though, so I don't anticipate them becoming suddenly super valuable, but they are neat to me. For anyone looking, I would suggest the same thing. The price they go for now is probably about the price they'll remain worth for a long time. Chances are they are one of a kind now because this would be from the archives, and would be what was kept as a "just in case".

    #82 56 days ago

    I was interested until I saw ebay links... then not so much.

    #83 56 days ago

    You never know about this stuff. When I first decided to unload most my my mint flyers I got from Bally in the '70's, I was getting over a hundred bucks for Fireball flyers. More for the home use model. This was over 20 years ago.
    The Kiss backglass posters would fetch $250+.

    #84 56 days ago

    So far bids are much higher than I would have expected and that is great for the seller. I think once the "newness" of these wears off they will sell a lot cheaper. Yes they are one of a kind but there have to be dozens if not hundreds of them for each machine. I guess supply & demand will tell all of us what they are worth over the next few weeks. Not something I am interested in but still interesting to watch.

    #85 56 days ago

    I honestly couldn't imagine paying over $30.00-$40.00 at the most for any of it. I know they have a certain "coolness" factor to them but, beyond this not so much.

    #86 56 days ago
    Quoted from RWH:

    I honestly couldn't imagine paying over $30.00-$40.00 at the most for any of it. I know they have a certain "coolness" factor to them but, beyond this not so much.

    They are cool, and quite honestly I would enjoy having a copy as wall art just as much as owning an original, so I think you price range is probably what I would be looking at also.

    #87 56 days ago
    Quoted from RWH:

    I honestly couldn't imagine paying over $30.00-$40.00 at the most for any of it. I know they have a certain "coolness" factor to them but, beyond this not so much.

    Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

    They are cool, and quite honestly I would enjoy having a copy as wall art just as much as owning an original, so I think you price range is probably what I would be looking at also.

    Realistically I think the "right price" for these will likely end up settling in at $20 to $40 once the "newness" wears off. I am just hoping that is enough for the OP to continue wanting to sell them. It would be a shame for them to just sit in a pile for another 40 years instead of being enjoyed. Or worse yet sent off for recycling sometime down the road. Time will tell!

    #88 56 days ago

    No need for curse words.

    #89 56 days ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    When I was at Gene's before the Rick took everything, that I saw actual pallets full of this stuff. We are talking about drawings measured in pounds of paper.
    Book after book after book all sloppily stacked up with all these old drawings. Neat to look at but far from anything collectible.

    Not collectible, to you.

    #90 56 days ago
    Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

    They are cool, and quite honestly I would enjoy having a copy as wall art just as much as owning an original, so I think you price range is probably what I would be looking at also.

    Agreed, sell originals to those who want to bid on them.
    But make high resolution scan backups for us peasants.
    Decently priced too. While they're cool and a piece of history, they're not THAT cool or even that sexy to look at.

    Now a copy of some concept art, I'd pay a little more for...

    IMG_20161103_181740 (1) (resized).jpgIMG_20161103_181859 (1) (resized).jpg
    #91 55 days ago
    Quoted from avspin:

    I have originals pen/pencil on velum & mylar, blueprints on velum & paper. I'm only selling drawings that were used in creation, production, design, approval, etc. If there is no hand written notes, annotations, corrections, or signatures they will not be sold.
    I really think these are collectible. The process of creating a pinball machine is very labor intensive and having an actual working drawing can bring you closer to that process. For me there is also emotion. Holding something that created the game I've been playing is special, at least to me.

    Im assuming you have stacks and stacks and cabinets of this stuff.......?
    Are you only going to list a Dozen a week on ebay for the next 5 years? Or will we see an influx of listings and product?

    #92 55 days ago
    Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

    Im assuming you have stacks and stacks and cabinets of this stuff.......?
    Are you only going to list a Dozen a week on ebay for the next 5 years? Or will we see an influx of listings and product?

    I would assume the former. If you do too many at once, you are going to drive down prices on your listings.

    #93 55 days ago
    Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

    Im assuming you have stacks and stacks and cabinets of this stuff.......?
    Are you only going to list a Dozen a week on ebay for the next 5 years? Or will we see an influx of listings and product?

    I have a bunch but it takes time to process. I will be listing more.

    #94 54 days ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    You never know about this stuff. When I first decided to unload most my my mint flyers I got from Bally in the '70's, I was getting over a hundred bucks for Fireball flyers. More for the home use model. This was over 20 years ago.
    The Kiss backglass posters would fetch $250+.

    Ah, yes. I remember those auctions quite well Bruce. In the days before paypal, it was SO much fun to buy a money order each week

    #95 54 days ago

    Found some older original pencil drawings. Will get some more up tomorrow.
    Current auctions ending soon.

    #96 54 days ago
    Quoted from avspin:

    Current auctions ending soon.

    With the number of items you have available wouldn't a store make more sense? You wouldn't have to deal with auctions ending and I think you can still let people make a lower offer if you want to. Maybe a store is cost prohibitive with your expected volume?
    Etsy is probably another option, I think they have a vintage category.

    #97 54 days ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    With the number of items you have available wouldn't a store make more sense? You wouldn't have to deal with auctions ending and I think you can still let people make a lower offer if you want to. Maybe a store is cost prohibitive with your expected volume?
    Etsy is probably another option, I think they have a vintage category.

    Yes. I'm working on the website and will be looking into facebook, etsy, etc. I will be using ebay for the more mainstream stuff.

    #98 54 days ago
    Quoted from too-many-pins:

    So far bids are much higher than I would have expected and that is great for the seller. I think once the "newness" of these wears off they will sell a lot cheaper. Yes they are one of a kind but there have to be dozens if not hundreds of them for each machine. I guess supply & demand will tell all of us what they are worth over the next few weeks. Not something I am interested in but still interesting to watch.

    I’m not surprised at all by the final prices of these, and I bet that once the novelty starts to wear off, we’ll start to see some truly awesome drawings.

    Quoted from dudah:

    Agreed, sell originals to those who want to bid on them.
    But make high resolution scan backups for us peasants.
    Decently priced too. While they're cool and a piece of history, they're not THAT cool or even that sexy to look at.

    This is the key with art. MAKE COPIES. Original artwork becomes valuable once people become aware of it. Mona Lisa to bansky. Photos of Marilyn Monroe, Einstein’s face. The posters sell for cheap, but the original is where the money is. I don’t care about the design of a random ramp, but once we start seeing iconic mechs, or full Playfields of the best games I bet a lot of people will want a copy.

    #99 54 days ago

    Going to post new listings in the marketplace.

    #100 54 days ago

    There is a bunch of just found drawings and blueprints going up on ebay 9/29 Sunday 4-6pm PST.

    Some really great stuff including some original flipper drawings in pencil from 1963 & 1977. BK2000, STTNG, FT, T2, PB, PZ, Shadow and more.

    ebay.com link
    Check them out tomorrow night.

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