(Topic ID: 188912)

Otaku's 'ULTIMATE ELECTRO-MECHANICAL GUIDE' & EM THEORY OF OPERATION!

By Otaku

6 years ago


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  • 178 posts
  • 53 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Dooskie
  • Topic is favorited by 105 Pinsiders

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    There are 178 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.
    #151 6 years ago
    Quoted from Crile1:

    Gottlieb 1964 Big Top. The top rollover lane determines which lower rollover lane light is lit (A, B, or C). A and C work fine. B will not light. This is a big deal because lighting and then hitting the lit lane adds a ball. I traced the issue to the connection between wire and lamp socket. I de-soldered (first time) the connection. Touching the wire to lamp post and hitting top rollover fixed it. Then soldered the connection. It worked. Then I lowered playfield and it won't work. I de-soldered again. Now cannot get it to work touching wire to lamp. Did I mess up with a bad solder job (I'm a rookie). Should I buy a new lamp socket? Is there a way to test the wire? Should I trim the end of the wire (almost no slack)? Help please.

    Is this a "double switch"? I've found that the old, play field down doesn't work issue is often just gravity making a double switch (that needs to be gapped perfect) make contact.

    #152 6 years ago
    Quoted from WIZ:

    What's you GD email address and I'll refund your $40 if it will shut UTFU?!!!!!

    No thanks, don't want your money but I will shut TFU.

    #153 6 years ago
    Quoted from Electrocute:

    No thanks, don't want your money but I will shut TFU.

    I'll take it.

    #154 6 years ago

    More friendly advice coming!

    My take on the last few weeks.

    Otaku didn't set out to dupe anyone.

    I suspect though that he has a hard time 'standing in other people's shoes', 'seeing alternate viewpoints', 'mind of other', etc. Nothing wrong with that at all, but that is my take.

    #155 6 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    The next coments to appear about the donations, the OP's financial situation, or the OP's choices/decisions/actions (foolish or not) will be moderated and the poster ejected from the thread as being off-topic. Enough with the drama people, good grief.
    Please try to stick to the subject of EM repair and what was written in this thead about it.
    Otaku, I would recommend not engaging with your critics too much. Some just want something to get riled up about.

    Guess the friendly suggestion didn't work.

    #156 6 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    dude gave me a birthday cupcake at Allentown, so we're cool.

    I'm thinking a few more cupcake handouts may go a long way!

    Quoted from Crile1:Gottlieb 1964 Big Top. The top rollover lane determines which lower rollover lane light is lit (A, B, or C). A and C work fine. B will not light. This is a big deal because lighting and then hitting the lit lane adds a ball. I traced the issue to the connection between wire and lamp socket. I de-soldered (first time) the connection. Touching the wire to lamp post and hitting top rollover fixed it. Then soldered the

    If you start another thread on this topic, you may get quicker and additional responses..
    I have a Big Top that I'm looking forward to getting set up some day..

    -1
    #157 6 years ago
    Quoted from EMsInKC:

    The bigger question is, why is Pinside allowing this waste of bandwidth to continue to appear here?

    We do not intervene in transactions (be they sales or donations) among members. We are not finders of fact as we lack the man power to be effective at it and we do want not pass judgement on transactions. Once we intervene in one situation we will be called on again and again to do so and it would get out of hand quickly.

    Even Choggard was not site banned for his transactions with the other members. He was site banned for his posting and pm'ing behavior.

    In any event, please follow the instructions of ForceFlow and stay on topic in this thread.

    13
    #158 6 years ago

    There are excellent sources of EM repair data already out there - from trusted sources with much more experience:
    Clay's EM repair site
    Pin wiki
    Russ Jensen's introduction to EM Pinball Repair
    Henk de Jager's EM Pinball Repair book
    Even the Mr. Pinball site has a section on EM repair
    This is just a few that I can think of out there.

    May I ask what makes you an expert on this topic capable of writing the "Ultimate" guide?

    Maybe it should be renamed Newbies Guide by a 19 Year Old or What I Learned on my Summer Vacation.

    #159 6 years ago
    Quoted from EMsInKC:

    ....Let him get his own website and do it there.... LOL

    Otaku,

    About the guide. This point above is quite valid.

    Pinside took a decision awhile ago for good reasons I am sure stopping any rewrites of info after 24 hours freezing the original text except to add a separate remark option. This site is for conversation, announcements and selling stuff now. Sure Vid is the exception with his tutorials but I am sure he checks it a lot prior submitting and well done him.

    So make a web page and link is the way to go. Then as you learn the more you add, edit to correct and improve, add pictures and make a good source of reference.

    11
    #160 6 years ago
    Quoted from SteveinTexas:

    So make a web page and link is the way to go. Then as you learn the more you add, edit to correct and improve, add pictures and make a good source of reference.

    Or just use the pinwiki

    #161 6 years ago
    Quoted from SuperPinball:

    Hey Otaku, I have a 1975 Gottlieb Fast Draw that whenever any switch on the play field is hit, it cycles through players 1-4 adding some points to each player and advances the ball count. Can you direct me to which part of the guide that would help me fix the problem?
    Thanks

    When a Gottlieb drains a ball, to get back to the Player 1 it cycles over the rest of the players that are not in play. It actually is a pretty fascinating circuit, games from Williams and Bally use a seperate ball count unit and player (player "up") unit, so if it is a one player unit it will just stay on the player 1 position the whole game. However since Gottlieb combined these, the unit is layed out from contact to contact like:

    - P1 Ball One
    - P2 Ball One
    - P3 Ball One
    - P4 Ball One
    - P1 Ball Two
    - P2 Ball Two
    - P3 Ball Two
    - etc.

    So, on a single-player game (or anything lesser than a full 4-player game), there are players to skip over each time a ball is drained, controlled by checking through the player relays on the relay bank and then pulsed through the score motor (how many pulses is controlled by how many switches are closed on the relay bank).

    It sounds like there is a misadjustment in your game that is activating this feature, and then the points from said switch are carrying across to each player. Because, as stated, it has to skip over these players. This actually puts each player "in play" for about a half second each (one at a time) and any points being activated will transfer over to them as the game skips over them to the next player-1 position. Are the points added fairly quickly as I suspect?

    I suspect that your outhole switch is adjusted too closely and the vibration from the point relay, score reel, and chime from activating any switch on the playfield is enough vibration (especially that chime coil, powerful) to close the gap on your outhole switch and drains the ball. If you hold the switch down (even accidentally) while it does this, these points will quickly add to each player as the player unit skips over them.

    If that is not it, you can also check for switches gapped too closely on the outhole relay/hole relay in the bottom of the cabinet.

    Quoted from Crile1:

    I have an issue:
    Gottlieb 1964 Big Top. The top rollover lane determines which lower rollover lane light is lit (A, B, or C). A and C work fine. B will not light. This is a big deal because lighting and then hitting the lit lane adds a ball. I traced the issue to the connection between wire and lamp socket. I de-soldered (first time) the connection. Touching the wire to lamp post and hitting top rollover fixed it. Then soldered the connection. It worked. Then I lowered playfield and it won't work. I de-soldered again. Now cannot get it to work touching wire to lamp. Did I mess up with a bad solder job (I'm a rookie). Should I buy a new lamp socket? Is there a way to test the wire? Should I trim the end of the wire (almost no slack)? Help please.

    Hi there, while it may very well be your connection, it could also be a bad lamp socket. These games are notorious for these (they get dirty and corroded) and describe what you are saying - they will light at one moment and then seemingly go dark at another. If you can verify your solder bridge is good, it may just be wise to change out the lamp socket or clean it. (replacing is usually the better option)

    You can test the line using a multimeter. If your multimeter is setup wrong it will allow voltage to pass through the leads, so make sure you do not accidentally use a 30v line as a ground! Luckily since it is an insert light it would only likely only blow one or two bulbs, but if you mess that up on the GI line you usually have to replace all of the bulbs in the playfield... not fun!

    However, the feature is still activating correctly, right? Another thing to check if the light socket continues to not work even when your solder connection is verified/the socket is replaced is that the contact on the relay that controls the feature is clean (file it) and adjusted correctly. This will also cause what you describe. This would also cause no voltage to show up on the multimeter, while an errorneous socket would still show voltage at the wiring - so pick whichever suits you. Of course, make sure the feature is properly activated or deactivated (whichever causes the light to light up - some rollover lanes go dark when activated when normally lit while some light up after being normally dark) before troubleshooting or you will be leading yourself down the wrong path by accident!

    #162 6 years ago
    Quoted from SteveinTexas:

    Otaku,
    About the guide. This point above is quite valid.
    Pinside took a decision awhile ago for good reasons I am sure stopping any rewrites of info after 24 hours freezing the original text except to add a separate remark option. This site is for conversation, announcements and selling stuff now. Sure Vid is the exception with his tutorials but I am sure he checks it a lot prior submitting and well done him.
    So make a web page and link is the way to go. Then as you learn the more you add, edit to correct and improve, add pictures and make a good source of reference.

    None of this is rewritten or excerpts from any other bodies of text - all original work done without any immediate reference. Thanks for the concern, though!

    #163 6 years ago
    Quoted from FrankJ:

    There are excellent sources of EM repair data already out there - from trusted sources with much more experience:
    Clay's EM repair site
    Pin wiki
    Russ Jensen's introduction to EM Pinball Repair
    Henk de Jager's EM Pinball Repair book
    Even the Mr. Pinball site has a section on EM repair
    This is just a few that I can think of out there.
    May I ask what makes you an expert on this topic capable of writing the "Ultimate" guide?
    Maybe it should be renamed Newbies Guide by a 19 Year Old or What I Learned on my Summer Vacation.

    Most of these don't go into why and just "how to fix". I set out to make a difference, and I am happy to have done so. (and best of all - it's completely free and also easily accessible! Which some on your list aren't)

    Thanks for the post, though!

    -1
    #164 6 years ago
    Quoted from Otaku:

    Newbies gonna hate, let's not forget a few months ago you were asking me for help on why your $1500 Jack In the Box wasn't selling lol
    We all have stupid questions when we're new and I'm not judging you but it's ironic

    Otaku, em's are super easy to fix. You dont possess some special skill or anything. Relay logic is old as dirt, i run thru 1 or 2 dead games in an hour at the pinball asylum. Maybe i should write a guide, well it wont be as impressive as yours because im 31, soooo old.

    -3
    #165 6 years ago

    #166 6 years ago
    Quoted from Otaku:

    Are the points added fairly quickly as I suspect?

    Yes points added very quickly as it cyles through the four players. I will check that outhole switch to see of its gapped too close. Thanks Otaku

    #167 6 years ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    We do not intervene in transactions (be they sales or donations) among members. We are not finders of fact as we lack the man power to be effective at it and we do want not pass judgement on transactions. Once we intervene in one situation we will be called on again and again to do so and it would get out of hand quickly.
    Even Choggard was not site banned for his transactions with the other members. He was site banned for his posting and pm'ing behavior.
    In any event, please follow the instructions of ForceFlow and stay on topic in this thread.

    Excuse me, but I am on topic, because I'm talking about why this thread is allowed in the first place.

    There's nothing about "transactions" here at all. A moderator's job is to pass judgment on whether a particular thread or post should be allowed to stay on a message board. I can tell the "Law" part of your handle because that reply was pure lawyer jibberish.

    *Moderator Edit: very close to an extensive EM Forum Ban here.*

    #168 6 years ago
    Quoted from SteveinTexas:

    Pinside took a decision awhile ago for good reasons I am sure stopping any rewrites of info after 24 hours freezing the original text except to add a separate remark option. This site is for conversation, announcements and selling stuff now. Sure Vid is the exception with his tutorials but I am sure he checks it a lot prior submitting and well done him.

    For any threads that are tagged as tutorials or guides, the OP is granted special editing privileges to be able to update their thread as needed. There are several members who have contributed helpful tutorials and guides. Many are linked here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guides-a-pinside-compendium-updated-72015

    #169 6 years ago
    Quoted from EMsInKC:

    Excuse me, but I am on topic, because I'm talking about why this thread is allowed in the first place.
    There's nothing about "transactions" here at all. A moderator's job is to pass judgment on whether a particular thread or post should be allowed to stay on a message board. I can tell the "Law" part of your handle because that reply was pure lawyer jibberish.

    If you have questions, I would recommended opening a moderator feedback thread so as not to drag this thread further off-topic.

    11
    #170 6 years ago

    Before your criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you're a mile away and have their shoes.

    #171 6 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    For any threads that are tagged as tutorials or guides, the OP is granted special editing privileges to be able to update their thread as needed. There are several members who have contributed helpful tutorials and guides. Many are linked here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guides-a-pinside-compendium-updated-72015

    And that compendium, although started by me, is dutifully updated by ForceFlow since I don't pay close enough attention to new threads. He's just too modest to tell everybody.

    #172 6 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    For any threads that are tagged as tutorials or guides, the OP is granted special editing privileges to be able to update their thread as needed. There are several members who have contributed helpful tutorials and guides. Many are linked here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guides-a-pinside-compendium-updated-72015

    I have asked about this before. How do you get this 'tagging' ?

    16
    #173 6 years ago

    Feedback on the guide itself:

    First, it comes off as very condescending, and even insulting/ageist. I think that's been covered in the comments. And for me it is unacceptable. It should be "us AND them", not "us OR them", especially in a small hobby like this.

    Second, it's more of a casual read than a companion you'd have opened on a tablet beside you while working on an EM game. Maybe that's what you were going for? But when people have a broken game, they don't want flowery prose or round-about banter...they just want possible solutions to fix their games. That's what makes Clay's guide so popular: he took a layman's approach to help make technical info more digestible to the beginner or inexperienced.

    Third, there was some great advice by a poster above to put all of this on a website of your own. It would be better organized, and criticism/comments/general bitching wouldn't be the main attraction like it is here in a thread--your content would.

    It's difficult trying to offer a fresh take on technology fifty years removed and restoration processes that have been covered thoroughly elsewhere, and moreover, are highly subjective. Most of my feedback is echoed in the mess of comments above, so there is some constructive criticism in there somewhere...seek it out. Good luck on future additions to your guide.

    #174 6 years ago

    Could you expand on section 14? I have a Gottlieb Orbit which randomly blows the headbox fuse and it is driving me crazy. There does not seem to be any one reason to cause it to blow; sometimes it blows almost immediately when starting a game and other times I can play for ten minutes before it pops. Not sure if there is something that is more often than not the cause of such a thing in the later Gottlieb EM's.

    1 week later
    #175 6 years ago

    Hi pinsiders
    I live in Europe so all the "Buy and Sell" happening in pinside: I never had a look at. I own some Gottlieb Sys-1 SS-Pins --- but 99.99% of my pinside time I spend in the EM-Section.

    Otaku also writes and helps in the EM-Section --- good tips. His "Ultimate guide", hmm --- not bad, but by far not COVERING "EM-Pins". In his post-158 FrankJ lists good places:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/otakus-ultimate-electro-mechanical-guide-em-theory-of-operation/page/4#post-3767506 --- I wonder how many pages the "Henk de Jager's EM Pinball Repair book" has --- a book I would like to have.

    Otaku writes about a nice "jumpering" https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/otakus-ultimate-electro-mechanical-guide-em-theory-of-operation#post-3765344 connecting an "problematic coil" to a Score-Drum-Coil (Player 3's 10 point reel) so the Score-Drum tells about "action on the problematic coil". Up to now I usually suggested an SteveFury Testlight: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/reading-gottlieb-schematics#post-2634425 - but will suggest "Otakus-jumpering-to-Score-Drum" as an alternative. Greetings Rolf

    #176 6 years ago

    Drain...

    #177 6 years ago

    Same..

    2 years later
    #178 4 years ago

    I found Vid's information on this a bit more relevant and helpful.

    There are 178 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.

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