(Topic ID: 206894)

OT: strip-and-insert /"quickwire" outlets SUCK - what am I missing?

By goingincirclez

6 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 23 posts
  • 15 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Marvin
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    #1 6 years ago

    When it comes to household electrical work I'm pretty much self-taught, know enough to be dangerous but reasonably cautious, etc. I've rewired rooms and panels and appliances and the like but sometimes the stuff terrifies me. For instance, I don't understand the seemingly arbitrary decisions as to what's "code" and what isn't.

    Case in point: I've heard and read arguments, from licensed electricians no less, who say that when installing a new wall outlet or switch, you should always use the little holes whereby you simply strip 3/4" or so of insulation from the wire (use the gauge on the receptacle if in doubt) and stick the conductor into the little holes near the screws. The holes have tabs that are supposed to bite and give a nice secure connection. No screws to accidentally-not-quite-really-have-tightened all the way, or have loosen over time. It's supposed to be quick and easy and permanent and safe.

    To that I say BULLSHIT! In at least 4 different structures now, wired and/or retrofitted at various times and locations by different people before me, every time I've encountered a flaky / shorting / dead / unreliable / dangerous / etc switch or outlet, and go to inspect or replace it... its been wired with those stupid quick-connect terminals instead of the screws! And incredibly, sometimes the conductors have backed out of them! This doesn't seem like it should be possible, but yet it is happening somehow. Not once on a fluke / poor-install case, either. The stripped ends look to be proper length, and seem to bite well enough if I push them back in - though not always. Sometimes these outlets look brand-new otherwise, so it's not like I could suspect someone previously reusing them.

    But, you know what has NEVER failed from a mechanical-connection standpoint? The screws.

    Call me old-school but this is what I will use every. Single. Time. In fact the ONLY reason I can think of for the quick-connect terminals is just that: they are quicker. Sometimes the screws are a PITA. Still, get the right hook on the wire nestled within the recess, cinch that screw all the way down, those things are never coming loose. OTOH, I have dodged a few bullets whereby those quick-connect terminals became downright unsafe over time.

    So what is going on? How does "code" allow something so flaky to be manufactured and endorsed? Or am I encountering the work of people who are somehow screwing up something that should be so simple? There has to be something to this. It can't be just me... or is it?

    #2 6 years ago

    I use the screws and then wrap around the outlet with electrical tape for safe measure.

    #3 6 years ago

    Back-inserted wires are not to code. Where did you hear this? You need 6 inches of slack, wrap the individual wires around the terminals and wrap with electrical tape.

    #4 6 years ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    Back-inserted wires are not to code. Where did you hear this? You need 6 inches of slack, wrap the individual wires around the terminals and wrap with electrical tape.

    Exactly. I never use the wire push-in, they simply are not safe. I too wrap once over the screw terminals even when I'm installing plastic boxes, over kill?, yes but I do it all the same.

    #5 6 years ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    Back-inserted wires are not to code. Where did you hear this? You need 6 inches of slack, wrap the individual wires around the terminals and wrap with electrical tape.

    Isn't code different in each state?

    #6 6 years ago
    Quoted from Kneissl:

    Isn't code different in each state?

    It is “regionally decided” but most places in the US start with the National Electrically Code. I’m sure not every place in the US has the exact same standards but this is what the vast majority appears to do

    #7 6 years ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    It is “regionally decided” but most places in the US start with the National Electrically Code. I’m sure not every place in the US has the exact same standards but this is what the vast majority appears to do

    Yes, every jurisdiction can adopt their own higher standards, but the NEC is supposed to be the minimum standard throughout the country. Of course it doesn’t always work out this way.

    Anyway, longtime electrician here and I don’t ever backstab devices either. Horrible design and idea, IMHO. Nothing but an eventual service call or worse down the road when this is done.

    #8 6 years ago

    Backstab connections suck. Screw terminals and tape are the way to go.

    #9 6 years ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    Back-inserted wires are not to code. Where did you hear this? You need 6 inches of slack, wrap the individual wires around the terminals and wrap with electrical tape.

    I can't cite specific sources. Once (longest ago) was a guy who retired from being a hospital electrician. I've seen it a few times on handyman forums and such that otherwise reputably pass the "sniff test" as well. Of course in books I've checked out, they always show using the screw terminals - I figure that's just for one-size-fits-all reference. After all, even quickwire outlets have screws, but the reverse is not true.

    Here's where it gets interesting: another debate I've encountered concerns mounting an outlet such that the ground terminal is over the spade terminals, instead of under. This gets to be a PITA when it comes to appliance cords and adapters being made for the traditional orientation, but there's some logic behind it: the thought is that if a grounded plug was ever loose and exposing its prongs, material that might fall on it would ground out and/or be deflected by the ground pin, instead of shorting across the plug spades. I've even heard this is a required code update for certain facilities and indeed, many hospitals and schools and the like I've seen, have outlets installed that way. I've also heard that "anecdotally" this is a sign of a licensed or union electrician. Whatever....

    ...but as it happens, when I have to replace or service outlets that are "upside-down" in that fashion, they have always been connected push-in style. What the hell? You're going to invert an outlet for reasonable-worst-case-paranoia, but then use an unsafe connection method? Or do these installers NOT realize push-in connections are unsafe, and *I'M* the one being paranoid??

    At any rate, quick-wire / push-in terminals are a newer invention, yes? if so many do agree that they suck, and insurance companies are skinflints, why the hell are they still allowed to still exist? I've encountered 50+ year old outlets, screw-in-terminals only, that were as solid as they day they were installed. Quick-wired connections don't seem to last even half that long.

    #10 6 years ago

    Why do plugs have them if it's not to code anywhere in the US, and likely North America. What the heck. I never used em, but seems like A recipe for sparks.

    #11 6 years ago

    They are technically deemed safe for residential use and will pass an inspection but, in reality they are not safe.

    #12 6 years ago
    Quoted from Kneissl:

    Why do plugs have them if it's not to code anywhere in the US, and likely North America. What the heck. I never used em, but seems like A recipe for sparks.

    Wires will pull free with little effort in most cases.

    #13 6 years ago

    Huh good info here. I have used them in the past, but luckily more of the ones I did for my 'new' house didn;t have them so I used the screws and tape. I backed into the correct way it seems.

    #14 6 years ago
    Quoted from Kneissl:

    Why do plugs have them if it's not to code anywhere in the US, and likely North America. What the heck. I never used em, but seems like A recipe for sparks.

    Because manufacturers don’t have to ensure that the install complied with code, they just have to ensure that their product CAN be installed to code. You would be amazed at how much crap at places like Home Depot are not really considered “safe”. The flip side is, NEC and other building codes are REALLY over the top when it comes to safety.

    #15 6 years ago

    I never use the stab in connectors. Also don't even bother buying them cheap 50 cent outlets they wont last. The prongs loose thier tight grip fairly quick.

    #16 6 years ago

    Never trusted the stab ins, always use the screws and then wrap with tape.

    #17 6 years ago

    I don't use the cheapy 39 cent outlets at all.
    I like to use high quality ($3.00) back wire outlets and stranded wire.

    #18 6 years ago
    Quoted from OCD_pinball:

    I don't use the cheapy 39 cent outlets at all.
    I like to use high quality ($3.00) back wire outlets and stranded wire.

    The builder grade ones are usually fine - but you can’t mess around with them too much, it’s true.

    #19 6 years ago

    I don't trust stab connectors. Brings back thoughts of aluminum house wiring. Took out more house trailers than tornados.

    #20 6 years ago

    They are use by "homeowners" because they are easier to work hot. I hate them just as much as IDC connectors on pins.

    #21 6 years ago

    I’ve had the same experience as you. These crappy things always get flakey eventually.

    They exist for the same reason IDC connectors do, to save the original installer (who won’t be around when they start crapping out) a lot of time = $.

    I would never use them myself.

    #22 6 years ago

    Screw terminals all the way. I also don't daisy-chain them and instead pigtail the line if there are multiple outlets in one jbox. I don't tape terminals though, only splices.

    What really makes me mad is 14AWG used for outlets. Last time I bought a house I pulled off a few receptacle covers to check.

    #23 6 years ago
    Quoted from radium:

    Screw terminals all the way. I also don't daisy-chain them and instead pigtail the line if there are multiple outlets in one jbox. I don't tape terminals though, only splices.
    What really makes me mad is 14AWG used for outlets. Last time I bought a house I pulled off a few receptacle covers to check.

    Why, most places are wired with 15A circuits, that wire is fine. Sure bigger is better but it's not needed.

    Reply

    Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

    Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

    Donate to Pinside

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


    This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ot-strip-and-insert-quickwire-outlets-suck-what-am-i-missing and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

    Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.