It's the refs job to inspect. If the refs fail to do their job that's one thing. If you pass the check and then go out of the way to alter the ball outside of the rules, then yes, it is cheating.

The only ones that cant seem to see the difference is Pat's fans.

It's similar to moving the ball forward after a run to try to get a better spot. Everyone does that. It's trying to win.

If you were to distract the refs after they made the official spot to improve its position. That's cheating.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/wild-nfl-rule-allows-roger-goodell-to-reverse-rams-saints-outcome-but-would-he-actually-use-it/amp/

So Romo and Nance will be doing the SB. Is there a better color guy than Romo? I've never watched anyone that has the ability to explain a play at the line as well as Romo. He even gives you a key player to watch on a lot of plays. He called that run to the outside on 4th and short where Brady killed the QB sneak. The thing I kept wondering, if Romo knows that, why don't the LBs?

Ha, potentially. The kill sign is visible though, and like Romo said, they basically have 2 plays they call on 4th and short. If you stack the inside they're going to kill and run at their tackle. It's hard to stop both, but if I'm the D Coordinator I'm stacking the A gap and telling the LBs to watch for a kill, and then break for the outside. I guess that's why he doesn't have a job.

They're the absolute best at high percentage plays. They're way more interested in taking the first down in front of them than trying to force something to happen down field. In doing that they also have tremendous control over the clock.

That's something the Chiefs really failed at in the end. They had 3m left, I don't recall the down, but Mahomes goes deep to Hill in the EZ in double coverage. If Hill doesn't manage to play decent defense, the game ends there. They score soon after anyway, and allow the Pats with plenty of time to move the ball down the field.

It was a bad call, and people naturally look to something external to place their blame. It feels better than saying "our team didn't do enough to win". But the truth is if one single call, no matter how egregious, can make the difference in the game, then you really didn't do enough to win.

The Saints had the game in hand. It didn't even look like it was going to be a game in the first half, and the Rams managed to be down only 3 walking into the locker room at halftime.

The other reality is you get one angle slowed down every time they show this play. If it's shown from the other direction (where one ref was standing, I'm pretty sure) and at game speed, it's a lot closer. Still bad? Yes. But I really don't like the slow-mo replays when they're used exclusively. It should be there to allow you a discerning eye at what happened, but that's a benefit they don't have on the field. It's very rare to see a replay in full speed these days.

It's so hard to find a video of anything other than the slowed down replay we've all seen a million times, that I had to find this awful video to show the original play:

What catch?

I said "it looked like that one could have gone the other way". If he had played the ball instead of throwing himself at kamara, he could have put the Rams in great position to win right there. That angle does make it look worse than it was, especially when you slow it down x1000.

I already said it was a bad call. If I'm a saints fan, I'm gathering signatures and sending them to the only guy in the world that can overturn this - the bad guy from Billy Madison.

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I thought it looked like PI, but needed to see the replay.

Point being, a lot of teams have a bad taste in their mouth from the refs at some point. Here's one I remember.

Bottom line, our defense allowed 40+ points. Hard to blame the refs for all of them.

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See, I'm not convinced they did. I thought he touched it at the same time it bounced. It's not the frames everyone was focusing on, but I don't think there's indisputable evidence that he didn't touch it at that moment.

I think instant karma got the better of edelmann with that shot he took. That guy sucks.

That's ridiculous. Brush up on your history. It's not just because of the accomplishments on the field, but because of the class and effort he exemplified. There are few more important figures in all of sports.

Every Patriots fan

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Yeah, the pro bowl is bad, but it was at its lowest point the couple years prior to this one. Remember when they had Deion and rice (?) Drafting teams rather than it being AFC and NFC? That was stupid.

The game also never should have moved from Hawaii. The shots in and out of commercial were at least nice to see for a guy like me covered in snow. And any argument about logistics can be thrown out as long as they have a stupid game in London every year.

The skills challenge is better than the game. They should just leave it at that.

Can you guys take your beta male pissing contests, accusations of homosexuality, incredible elavator stories, and ambiguous supermodel euphemisms to PM?

A packers blunder to share, apparently Mark Murphy thought it was a good idea to let all other candidates they didnt get the job, before making sure LaFleur wanted it. Murphy is a dope.

Like most everyone, I'll be pulling for the Rams, but I doubt they pull it off.

I'm nervous. He does seem like a nice guy and sharp, but I'm not sure he has the personality to hold a room. I'm also really tired of watching our homerun or bust offense.

The young guys with the those types of offenses are obviously big right now, but if it's up to me, I'm trying my best to replicate what the Pats do. Run high percentage plays, get the ball out quick, and get every 1st down on your way to the endzone.

The Pats did a good job defensively. We've seen this from the Rams already this year. They looked really vulnerable late in the year to my eyes. They didn't do anything to establish the run yesterday (maybe because of the looks they were seeing up front, honestly didn't watch that closely). I'm not sure what the deal was with Gurley. Goff had 0 pocket awareness all game, and he just doesn't seem to have the chops to overcome pressure. Romo said it, they were only bringing 4 or 5 guys, but disguised it well to make Goff feel like he was really being pressured. Gilmore looks like a real talent.

The offense was mediocre at best. I can't believe we're hearing talk of Edelmann as a HOFer now.. he had a good game, but cmon... he wasn't even the best WR on the team for most of the year. Once NE was able to recognize the zone, it was just pitch and catch for the couple of successful drives they had.

There was good defense, but it really started from a coaching perspective. Meaning, it actually felt like failed offensive execution on both sides than it did a defensive battle. Both D coordinators did a great job. It just wasn't all that exciting to watch.

The halftime show was comically bad. I recognize that it's not for me, but normally it's at least a little entertaining. Bruno Mars did a great job, and had one of the better performances I can remember.

Better than good.

The NFL is an entertainment franchise, not much different than the WWE. What sort of sanctimonious role do you think the NFL should play in our lives?

We saw Gronk play defense once this year, I don't think he would have made much difference.

So is this the new XFL? Honestly not sure, but I'll watch. I like the idea of operating off season. Smart to have a more complimentary relationship with the NFL.

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I think doing it in Spring is a big step in the right direction. The first time you'll be able to see your team even on the field with another team is in August. The next NFL landmark is FA. Then the Draft. Both of those things are great, I like them, but they're just non-sense speculation for the most part.

I think a league that knows that it's role is as a developmental partner could do very well. I'm certainly interested, especially for Saturday night games!

Yes. I also watch the CFL on occasion.

Even Patriot fans hate Patriot fans..

https://deadspin.com/there-was-a-big-ol-brawl-between-patriots-fans-at-their-1832367310/amp

Congrats on the move, make sure to post pics of your new game room once you're settled:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lets-see-pic-of-games-rooms/page/251#post-4825500

Certainly a tough loss for the Saints. It's tough to swallow when your team goes down like that. The Packers have had our fair amount of heartbreakers in Rodgers era. Everyone remembers the Seahawks collapse, but letting Fitzgerald run wild after a successful hail mary has got to be the quickest turnaround from elation to depression I can remember.

It's a really rough feeling to go from feeling like it was your year, to realizing everything over the last several months is lost, and you need to do even better to claim the ultimate prize next year. I can't imagine the toll that would take as a player. It's especially hard to swallow when you have an aging QB at the helm as a critical piece to that puzzle.

I think the Saints are in a good position to make another run next year. That division is weak, and hopefully the team can rally around that loss.

That doesn't count, you can just plug in any 5th round talent and be just as successful. The only tough part is finding one that will kiss your owner on the mouth!

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I like this one better. So much history. So much salt. So much hope. So many crushed dreams.

What's to stop Pats fans from posting in the other one?

That offense, as I remember it, was Dunn and Alstott all day, and then they had Keyshawn in his prime to keep the defense honest. Am I remembering correctly? Wasn't that in place when Gruden took over? X-Y-3 Banana?

I don't really understand what Gruden is trying to do. I watched some of the senior bowl practice, and he seemed smitten with Drew Lock. I believe Elway was reportedly really interested in him as well. I wouldn't be horribly surprised to see them try to move Carr and pickup a new QB in the draft. Gruden seems crazy enough to pull a maneuver like that.

Pft, Edelmann as a HOFer is absurd. Recency bias, no doubt.

Here.

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Fun enough to watch. I'll check it out again tomorrow. The ability to hear the plays coming in was kind of neat.

Some of the rules are interesting - no extra points, you need to go for 2. No kickoffs, you get the ball placed at the 25. The game moves along pretty well. It's still curious to me that there was no advertising for the AAF during the superbowl, considering CBS was going to broadcast the game in primetime the following weekend. All of the coverage I've seen is still better than the current MNF crew.

There's been a lot of talk about the XFL here, but that's not the league we're watching - that doesn't start until next year. It will be really interesting to see how the two new leagues coexist. The best thing they could do would be to have their own interleague championship game at the end of the year, a superbowl, if you will.

The NFL ran the game on their own network last night, so it's pretty curious they would block any ads from running when they seem to be a stakeholder.

Even Jim Irsay is cringing right now.

My favorite thing about all of this is that we're back in the correct thread.

I don't think they care as long as it's not on video.

The poor guy can only get an erection for like 2 weeks after the superbowl, and you guys are all picking on him, expecting him to setup elaborate brokered escort deals, etc.

Cant a guy with a few billion dollars and an endless supply of mismatched collared shirts catch a break every now and then?

Finally showing some passion!

https://fox11online.com/news/local/green-bay/wiaa-complaint-filed-after-high-school-basketball-incident-involving-mike-mccarthy

Witten back on the field this season. I predict he's gonna be slow as shit, but still 100x better than he was in the booth.

I could see him missing the cut. A year away from football at that age isn't going to do him any favors. Levi is right about the coaching path - it's not like he'd have trouble getting his foot in the door and work as a assistant TE coach or something for a year until he inevitably gets picked up (unless he's as bad of a coach as he is an announcer).

DK Metcalf is a guy to watch in the draft this year. He's absolutely huge, and the combine showed that he has significant speed, too. Here are some of his measurables compared to Julio Jones. Edit - it's not shown in either, but he ran a 4.33

While that's pretty exciting, here's a different look at his stats. The lack of success in the shuttle and 3 cone suggests that he might play pretty stiff, as a lot of those musclebound receivers do.
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I see the Redskins are rumored to pickup Tannehill. That should solve all of their problems!

I love the NFL draft, even when the Packers are good. It's nothing but wild speculation. Every fan thinks they know what's best for their team based on the writings from some other fan on some random blog, and a 3 minute youtube video. It's great.

This year's draft is filthy with edge rushers, which is perfect for GB. I'm hoping that 3 QBs go in front of pick 12 so we can get as much value as possible, and hopefully grab a plug and play pass rusher.

I take the day off of work on Friday and get together with my college roommate so we can tie one on to watch GB trade out of the first round. It's fun, but I loved the days of waking up early on Saturday with 0 responsibilities and 4(?) rounds to watch.

No, not this year. GB has done it multiple times though. Ted Thompson had a habit of stockpiling draft picks, always looking to maximize value. It became frustrating that it felt like he was always building toward the future, without ever really cashing in the chips.

I fully expect we make our 2 picks in the first round this year.

I agree that would be a better move. At least they dont know whether he sucks yet or not.

You know, as much as I love the draft, I just can't imagine ever attending one. Making a trip to Nashville sounds great... but I'd be more likely to find a decent bar to watch it than to actually attend the draft. A lot of the fun is the highlight videos and the reactions, I don't think the live experience can replicate that.

Plus, I imagine I'd have to part with $12 every time I wanted a beer.

Redskins getting Keenum and a 7th for a 6th.

My head is spinning with FA pickups today. During the TT years we were all but absent from the FA market.

Billy Turner - OT
Adrian Amos - S
Zadarius Smith - OLB
Preston Smith - OLB

The spending is a product of failed drafts. We missed on Jason Spriggs in the 2nd, and now we have to go out and sign a guy to fill in the gap. We made a mistake in letting Peppers go too early, and relying on Matthews and Perry (and failing to find someone suitable in the draft to supplement), and now we have to go out and fill those gaps. We couldn't get what we thought we could out of HaHa, so again, to FA we go.

What I am excited about, is the effort to fix those mistakes through some spending and urgency. Thompson was always building toward some distant future. He seemedingly refused to fix his draft misses through FA. We had a steady stream of young players coming in and either never contributing, or being forced to contribute in some catastrophic way.

This leverages our draft position. We no longer need to hit a homerun to draft a pass rusher. It would still be nice to get depth at that position, but we now have the opportunity to trade down to someone that's desperate to find someone like the next Brock Osweiler, or draft the best player available.

Is spending in FA the best way to build a team? Clearly not, we have plenty of examples of that (no offense). But, I do think there's reason to do so in cases such as the Packers.

Schefter is a good follow on twitter. All I want are the facts. Any show on ESPN just repeats themselves ad nauseam. Actual insight is really few and far between. ESPN is the MTV of sports.

Ouch, that 16m in dead cap sucks for the Giants. They're in really rough shape right now. I hate the idea of grabbing a RB high, especially when you're as bad as they are. Barkley is a fine player, but a 1st rd RB is a luxury pick. The life expectancy of a running back is still extremely low compared to other positions. If/when the Giants do turn things around, it's likely Barkley will either be washed up, or playing for another team.

Play action to what?

Maybe they'll be able to lean on some of that young talent, but if I'm a DC I'm keying on Barkley and letting them try to beat me with the pass.

The process of building a good sustainable team is boring. You need to secure big fat men to push around other big fat men. That's true on both sides of the ball. The position players get all of the attention, but the game is really won in the trenches, and those difference makers are difficult to find, and often demand high draft picks and lots of development time. A RB in the first round is always a mistake by a franchise trending down, unless the goal is ticket and jersey sales.

I think Bortles would be a fine backup. Its just a question of whether or not he has accepted that this will be his role.

Everyone seems to know the Giants are rebuilding except the Giants front office.

Those odds are largely set based on where the public is expected to put their money. The Browns are suddenly the darling of the NFL. The hilarity comes in when every fan thinks they're the only one that sees it, and they can bet on the "dark horse" to win it all. At 14-1? No thank you. Let's not forget they have a brand new HC and some of the biggest personalities of any team to wrangle. Those odds are flat out bad.

You're not getting it - read it again. The oddsmakers DO know what they are doing, just not in the way people may think. The Browns odds are bad, and they can set them that way because people are still going to put their money there.

If you could get a candid conversation with an oddsmaker, I'm sure they'd tell you that those odds are lower than they should be. But, why would they give you 25-1 when you'll take them at 14-1?

What's your take? It wasnt a move I was expecting the Titans to make. Who do you perceive to be your starter?

I was excited as anyone for the AAF. I watched every game the first 2 weeks. I updated my cable pack shortly after that, and no longer get CBS sports or NFL Network. I was never going to clear my calendar to watch, but even a minimal barrier such as having to look into alternate viewing options kept me from finding the games.

I watched this past weekend. I watched the last 5 minutes of a game and it took a legit 35 minutes. It seemed as though the refs had a vendetta, and called EVERYTHING in those last 5 minutes. It was absolutely brutal to watch.

I'll try to keep an eye out for games this coming weekend. The guys on the field are certainly showing some passion. I'm hoping for some fun viewing when their playoffs roll around.

Yeah, a nice glimpse into our dysfunction. Most of us blame Mark Murphy (still at the helm) for letting Thompson continue despite clear health issues. He's too involved in football ops now, he wants to be an owner, and has taken control by making GM and Coach both his direct reports.

Well, if we ignore it, isn't that doing our part to guarantee that happens?

If anything, this is all on your head, Levi!

Exactly. I have almost 0 interest in watching a preseason game at the stadium, and I'd definitely never pay to see a preseason game.

I'm on the season ticket waiting list, but unless I have a pretty open calendar at that time, I don't know for certain I'd take the tickets (in 50 years...). Why? I very much enjoy watching games at home. I like that I can invite as many friends as I'd like to watch the games. I like that I can watch other games during commercials. I like that I don't have to wait in line to go to the bathroom. I like the cost of beer and snacks at home.

I love the atmosphere at the game under the right circumstances. I'll be thrilled to bring my kids to their first game when they're old enough to appreciate it. But right now I'm pretty selective about what games I actually attend.

Just take the season tickets and sell the games you don't want? Well, good luck trying to get your money back out of the tickets when you're selling to friends and family - I just don't really have it in me to explain to people close to me that I need them to pay more for tickets to help me cover the cost of the preseason games people didn't want to go to, and the cost of taxes and fees. So now the games I do attend have a higher overhead for me than they likely would have if I just bought from someone else. And, who knows where the seats are going to be!

I know enough people that have access to tickets that I'm not too worried about missing a game I want to see live. And in that case, I'm not afraid to spend a little money, because I don't have a fixed cost associated with my favorite team year in and year out.

Yeah, I think I'll just mull it over though for the next century or so, just in case.

John Schneider has done an incredible job of keeping that team competitive despite several huge losses over the years. He's probably one of the top 5 GMs in the league, so while they may have some challenges, they have the right guy in place to ride that out.

Brady regularly restructures so the Pats can make moves. I often wonder if those types of restructures include a "wink" agreement for paid appearances after retirement, etc.

It's been on my list to see the Packers play at Arrowhead for a long time. This was the year, and of course, the game falls on the weekend of our already scheduled vacation (with my parents, brothers family, and family friends - so not going to be able to reschedule). Bummer.

I just think they're not going to take a QB just to take one. They could very well be looking to secure someone like Rosen, especially since AZ has zero leverage after last night.

I don't know how to feel about the GB picks. As a fan, it always feels like they have some sort of a sanctimonious agenda to go about proving the fans don't know anything. And really, we don't. We (or at least, I) watch college football games and key on interesting players for a few snaps... watch 5m youtube highlight videos, and critique decisions of guys that pour over hours upon hours of tape of every prospect to make their decisions. So, trust the process I suppose.

I'm most concerned about the shoulder with Gary. If he can't contribute right away, I think we've made a mistake just on that alone - the clock is ticking.

The critique with Gary is that he wasn't more productive given his physical abilities in college. What is production, though? Is it being involved in every tackle because they're running right at you every play, or is it taking on a double or triple team? I don't know what to expect. It's a risky move that could pay off, or he could be the next Justin Harrell.

I like the Savage pick, I just don't know that we needed to trade up to get him. I also would have been happy with Adderley.

Yeah, I love the draft, but its spawned a cottage industry I just dont care for. I'd like to know how much tape these guys have gone through, and what their qualifications for evaluating talent are.

The answer is of course, little and none.

It would be fun for someone to grade these evaluators a year or two after their grades come out!

It doesn't seem like he takes many hits, anecdotally speaking. The older QBs seem more willing to throw the ball away than their younger counterparts. The unwillingness, or inability, to scramble may mean that they don't net an extra 3 yards on a broken play, but it also means that they aren't subjecting themselves to a hit for a minimal gain.

QBs still take hits, there's no doubt, but they're easily the most protected position. I believe that to be true both by the officiating crews, and by coaching staff that encourage them to avoid unnecessary hits, at least when the game isn't on the line.

Ego.

The offensive linemen or RBs are the guys that really take a ton of damage. I don't know how you make that part of the game more humane. Some of the OL guys play really deep into their 30s. I can't imagine the physical toll on their bodies and brains. Scary stuff.

I think Favre was probably the last QB to really get beat up for the entirety of his career. He played pretty recklessly, and that NFC Championship game against the Saints was really the final straw before the NFL decided to step in. He's been pretty vocal about problems with his memory, and he's only removed from the game 6 or 7 years.

Pocket QBs that have come into the league in the last 5 years are in a pretty good position to have long careers, and relatively healthy lives. Relative compared to their teammates, that is - it is still a violent sport. But, they're protected better than any other position, and better than any other point in history.

I would guess that if you control for other variables, QBs will still have a higher propensity to develop mental disease throughout their lives, and possibly a shorter lifespan when compared to the general population. The problem is that the sample of NFL players, and QBs specifically is so small, it's going to be difficult to really have any meaningful data.

Sorry, that's a little disingenuous. Everyone that gets into a race car is pretty aware of the potential worst. Everyone that gets onto a football field is probably also aware of the immediate danger, but until recently it wasn't understood that the problems from those hits may not take hold until 20 years down the road. The big problem is that there were people within the sport that DID know, and chose not to make players aware of it. That's a problem.

NFL players can make a lot of money.. but a lot of them make good money only when compared to other professions, not other athletes. The risk in the NFL is also significantly higher than those other sports. Consider a rookie that makes the roster... he would make at least $480,000. But also consider the costs... taxes, agents, family, friends... and the fact that little of that money is guaranteed. As we know, that money typically isn't sustainable. And as far as I know, there's a limited time you're covered under the league's health insurance after you're out of the league. As we now know, those health care needs may be significant later in life.

There's no way?

I think there are improvements that can be made to safety. I'm just riffing, but I think that there are a few directions that this could move...

1. The NFL acknowledges the dangers of the sport, and invests heavily into mitigating those dangers through rule changes and advances in equipment. I believe they're doing this, but it feels like a bit of a protection of an investment and a checking of a box more than it does an actual effort to benefit the lives of their employees.

2. Acknowledge that because of the dangers of the sport, one of the most valuable assets that they can offer players is extended health coverage. I fully expect that the NFL will fight this tooth and nail in the next CBA, which is a shame.

3. Compensate players more fairly. I hate when people scoff at this one. The career of most NFL players isn't that of Manning or Rodgers, it's that of Travis Jervy or Jake Kumerow. Those guys get a pretty limited window of opportunity to earn money. They sign for league minimums, and can't get a job after their first contract. They might have earned 1m on their W2, but that money gets sliced up a lot of ways before landing in their bank account. The guys that are good with money will have a better nest egg than most at their age, but at a potentially great cost to their health and potentially to their lifespan.

Believe me, I also groan about some of the calls made when a guy taps a knuckle on a QB helmet. Overall, I want to see the NFL do its part to protect its talent, or it's inevitable that the talent will be pushed toward other sports that either compensate better, or offer less chance for injury. I think I heard that youth baseball is breaking records as of the last few years. Do you think that's coincidence?

And to your point, I think the quickest way to have football banned altogether is to do nothing.. When we see guys like Favre rolling up in a wheelchair drooling on himself, calling for audibles and hot routes mid conversation, and in the meantime the NFL has done nothing to improve safety - do you really think that's the best way to see that our favorite sport continues?

I hope you don't bring that sort of "this is impossible" attitude to your place of employment!

I believe the NFL already does cover players beyond their playing careers. I don't think it's beyond 5 years, and I don't know what the qualifiers are. As you so eloquently stated, they could probably use coverage beyond those years. There should certainly be qualifiers. The money is available, as it is in a lot of properly run businesses and government positions. At least in our state, i'm pretty sure police and fire do have lifetime healthcare option with a vestment into the state (20 years?). There are also examples of private companies offering this, although that's becoming less common.

Where would the money come from? Goodell is expected to make over .5B during his tenure. That, AND lifetime healthcare coverage (YES, the ultimate hypocrisy...) and lifetime use of a private jet, because you can't just fly wherever you want with a few hundred million dollars.

Maybe you think that the owners should get to keep most of the money since they assume the financial risk? Show me some cases where that's actually true... owners have proven they can milk a town, collect tax incentives, and then move onto another town that will happily pay for their stadium.

Maybe you're just pandering to the owners in the hopes of getting that sweet commissioner gig, who knows.

Man.. I really should have stopped engaging you after you started talking about Nascar... or when you started spouting non-sense about other positions not receiving health coverage after retirement, or whatever other refutable comments you've made since then.. but what can I say? I'm bored.

I don't want to touch on your everyday working class example too much, but that's also pretty erroneous. If you're a highly valued individual within your field, you can choose to not work for those companies that don't offer bonuses based on performance, or meaningful retirement benefits. I'll leave it at that.

You clearly like the sport or you wouldn't be hanging around the thread as much as you are. I was admittedly a big early supporter of the other football league that surfaced this spring... now I can't even remember what it was called. Do you know why? Inferior talent.

Some of the most iconic players in the NFL, past and present, had the ability to choose their professional sporting career. Elway, Jackson, Sanders, Wilson, Gates, Peppers, even the aforementioned Cedric Benson (RIP)... What happens when the NFL chooses to put their bottom line above the players? Those players choose other sports. As mentioned, the youth numbers are already starting to indicate that we're going to see less talent in the NFL, and more in the MLB. I like baseball, but I love football..

I don't put athletes on a pedestal, but this IS the NFL thread (which is why I wasn't talking about police, UFC, or whatever until you threw it at me for some reason). There are plenty of dopes in the NFL, that's for sure. There's also a lot that do a ton of good in their community. Maybe that's a PR thing, maybe it's a truly virtuous thing, I really don't care.

To shit on your boxing point... it's dropped off tremendously over the last couple of decades. There's still talent, but the sport is really struggling, likely because of the politics of the matches and the brutality. The former can be solved, as UFC has largely taken care of the politics from what I understand. I don't really follow the UFC. Why? Honestly it's a combination of too slow and too brutal. I don't get a whole lot of satisfaction from watching the tactical ground fighting, and I'd rather not see a Theisman-style leg injury every 5 matches.

I want what's best for the NFL. Take care of the talent. Maybe make Goodell fly first class on a luxury airliner every now and then, I don't know.

GB and OAK are playing in Winnipeg. The endzones aren't in play because of turf condition. That, and the Packers inability to tackle, makes this one of the tougher games to watch in recent memory.

The end zones start at the 10yd line, back of the end zone on the goal line.

That's the worst part - it wasn't even a good joke!

I guess Luck is retiring?

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/08/24/report-andrew-luck-retiring-from-nfl/

We should just get the year removed - no real reason for it since it's an ongoing thread.

Nah, I just hit the ignore button. I normally don't do that, but clearly he has some sort of agenda I'm just not interested in hearing anymore.

Tough game to start for GB@CHI, particularly since it's the kickoff game, most of our starters have yet to take a snap in preseason (and likely won't), and we have a brand new offense...

I'm metering expectations, but I'm holding out hope the Bears do that thing where they blow it in spectacular fashion.

It's a 2 horse race in the NFC East. I'll take the Eagles, but if Wentz goes down it's all over. The Cowboys are pretty good at folding under pressure.

Was Mike Vick a good guy? It doesn't seem like it. But from what I can remember, he made a huge mistake, paid for it, and seemed to be pretty remorseful on the back end.

What I know for sure, is that was some of the most fun football I've seen. Both when he played for ATL, and pretty surprisingly, when he played for PHI. He was an athletic freak. Mike Vick had a cannon, and could transition to run like no one we've seen before or since. He basically had 1-2 reads and ran. He gave defensive coordinators nightmares.

Jeez... c'mon. You're right that I don't remember all of the details, nor do I care to. My point was that despite whatever went on personally, as a football player he was one of the most exciting, game-changing players of his generation.

I don't see anything in my post defending him. But, if we're gonna add add personality qualifiers to the impact that people have on the game, it's gonna be messy in here.

I said it was a "huge mistake". I think there are varying degrees, but overall a mistake should be something that the person has seemingly tried to come back from in some way. Vick did time for what he did, and tried to do some work around that thing (probably at the direction of a publicist, and I don't know to what degree). Ray Lewis killed 2 guys and has a job as a personality on a morning show where he yells at the general public about god. Didn't do a day in prison from what I know. People love him. Go figure.

What kind of sandwich?

I was playing Madden and I just remembered the Cowboys acquired Cobb this offseason, and of lesser importance, Witten.

I'm changing my vote, and here's why...

Bad QBs NEED guys that can give them check downs underneath. Prescott has shown he has some chops, but overall he's still in the pretty early stage of a decent QB. He has legs, which will help him, but he's not fast enough that a spy would be ineffective. I think he'll benefit from having a veteran, sure-handed TE. I don't know if that's witten.. I can't imagine the time off does any favors, and he seemed old when he retired the last time. But, if he can still feign a block and run a button hook, I think he'll be an asset.

Cobb is shifty, and a pretty good slot player. I always thought the Packers should have played him more out of the backfield more often, in split backs or full house or something. He probably shouldn't run it up the middle, but he's very good in space. If you can get him on some screens or wheel routes out of that package, that's a pretty valuable read.

More often he'll just be good as a secondary target in the horizontal routes. With Cooper running verticals, that might be enough to get a few first downs while waiting for a big play to open up.

Sure, okay. It was an off the cuff recollection of an event meant to provide perception - other revered NFL players have something other than an impeccable past. I don't think Mike Vick is a model citizen, I don't think Ray Lewis is a model citizen. Both tremendous athletes, and I think that's how they should be judged in the realm of football.

Either way, just doing my best to keep this on the rails of football at this point. I'm admittedly doing a bad job with my last couple engagements. But goodness gracious, if these last few pages aren't perfect evidence that we need some live, regular season action of some fucking football, I don't know what is.

Let's hear some football insight. What worries do you have about your team? Where do you feel they're strong? Bonus points for some off the beaten path remarks.

I think Wentz has been a very good QB so far, but his sample size is also pretty limited. As everyone knows, he's had injury troubles. I don't think the ACL is necessarily indicative of future injury, but the back is something I'd be pretty worried about..

He's got the tools, but the fact that Foles was also really successful would lead me to believe that the system should get most of the praise, at least for now. I'd say that's a positive for Eagles fans.

I watched the future gym teachers of america last night, now I'm ready for real football... just 6 days...

Who is in the MNF booth now? It cant be worse than witten.

How about the b-crew (being generous) that does the double header?

Great move by Schneider.

Packers cut backup Deshone Kizer. We traded for him with Damarious Randall, a 1st pick in 2015. He was a problem, but we also tried playing him out of position at CB (we also failed to recognize Micah Hyde as a safety). So overall, feels like we just blew our 2015 draft.

The other big one I heard today was Jachai Polite (3rd) cut by the jets.

Two days..

Tomorrow should be interesting.

Trey Burton is likely out (listed as Q, but coaches said he probably isn't in "playing shape"). That's big, because shitty QBs tend to rely heavily on their TE. I'd like to see us key in on Cohen (or maybe Montgomery if he becomes a factor) and bring heavy pressure often.

Jaire Alexander is one of the best young CBs in the league, and Kevin King (good when not injured) is also expected to play. Throw in Amos and Clark, and I think we have the edge over their offense. Take away their checkdowns, and challenge Trubisky to make throws down field.

Their defense is obviously their biggest strength. We have 0 reps from 12 to anyone in a game before that first throw tomorrow. If 12 makes throws on time I think we can at least drive the ball on occasion and rely on their offense to make some mistakes. If you see 12 running outside the pocket a lot, I'm nervous, not only for the outcome of the game, but for the season and his ability to accept game plans in general.

I'm also very interested to see how Nagy reacts when in FG range.. Will he kick? That doink affected him probably more than anyone. The Bears basically shut down their kicking game after the new guy made a 58 yarder in the second(?) preseason game, worrying that a miss could destroy his sensitive psyche. That's a fun storyline to follow.

Does anyone have any insight into the upcoming games? All I see is baseless cheerio pissing, or complaints about other people's fairytale football teams (maybe worse than actually talking FF). Cmon, we can do better..

In other news - I'm making some fucking chili right now. Football is so close I can smell it!

Way ahead of ya.

green-bay-packers-cheesehead (resized).jpg

I'll take DET against ARI.

If Patricia is ANY good as a defensive HC, he will be able to shut down a 5'8" QB on his first day on the job. An inside blitz should get him pretty rattled. Those dudes are big, it'll be like he's looking for his parents over the tops of the shelves at Toys'r'Us. Bring the OLBs in on a low tight zone and take away his ability to scramble. Bring in a CB blitz on occasion.

I hope Patricia is a fraud, though. That would be fun.

I watched Hard Knocks, just like I do most years. They touched on the Antonio Brown debacle, but really seemed they tried to smooth it over, and act like it wasn't a big deal. That show is nothing more than NFL fluff.

I don't think Burfict even made an appearance.. I forgot he was on the team. The dirtiest player in the NFL barely gets a mention? cmon.

Gruden also came off as a complete doofus. Counting backwards by 3s, and really proud of himself for that ability. It reminds me of my mother-in-law sharing those stupid puzzles that "only 3% of people can solve!".

He wasn't the best, but I didn't mind him in the booth. Well... as long as he was the only color guy. There were some really uncomfortable moments with him and Jaworski. He's better than most, which I guess just goes to show there aren't many people that are very good at it (looking at you, witten).

If you want to see how bad commentating can be, tune in for the late MNF game. That's always a shit show, and I don't even know who they have, yet. Mike and Mike did it one year - laughably bad, and those guys had been working together for a decade or more. The year with Berman was even worse.

Boos in soldier field, just 30 minutes into the season. Love it.

He's also into Advocare, I'm pretty sure. The placebo drink my idiot sister-in-law tries to claim made my fat brother skinny (he's still fat). She says things like "Jason Witten promotes it!", like that would mean it's a good idea.

But those promo videos are a new thing. The name isn't really indicative of a hate group. These guys are lazy, and someone pays them 1k to say happy birthday to some jerkoff. Someone thinks to look into it, and then it's a thing. He doesn't know them. Didn't know anything about them, just wanted to make some money. Probably to recoup some of his other poor investment decisions.

Lots of penalties, but that was a pretty great defensive show. I'm not right often, but..

Nagy going for it on 4th and 10 in lieu of a 51 yarder just goes to show that he's still in his head about that kick. Satisfying.

Pettine was a great hire. I'm glad to see us cash in our chips a little this offseason. With Thompson, it always felt like we were building toward a sort of perennial future. I'm still upset we couldn't land Mack, but we made some moves to bring in some talent on both ends and safety.

Chicago's defense is still as good as advertised. That front 7 is just stout, running the ball early clearly didn't work very well. That was abandoned early in the 2nd (our sole offensive burst), and that allowed the run game to reopen just a little.

I just don't understand most of this comment. Trubisky has an arm. He really didn't make many mistakes (besides one big one). It was played perfectly by the safety. Packers D did a good job to close that pocket. If he could have broken out to run a little more, might have been a different outcome.

You saw it when we decided to rush 3, he made a play downfield. He should be respected enough that you bring pressure.

And Mahomes was the MVP, so if he was leading the Bears... that would have been? Don't get it.

Oh sure. Yeah, I will need to go back and watch a little closer, but I felt we bottled him up pretty well on the first watch. I will watch again though, cause it was great, and I have another couple of days until real football.

Loud and clear on Mahomes. I was as happy as anyone that they chose to trade up to draft a QB that no one really wanted. I think he's in the bottom third, but potential to rise to an average level. He only has 2 years of football under his belt, so hard to know what will come.

They were saying last night Ditka didn't make their top 10. How? Coach and player, and the only coach to ever win them a SB. Slam dunk.

He didn't even make their top 10. He's probably the most recognizable figure for the Bears today.

I've also heard he's a world-class asshole, so maybe that has something to do with it.