Holmgren was coach from 92-98 (7 seasons). He went to 2 superbowls, won 1. MM was coach from 2006-2018 (almost 13 seasons). He went to 1 superbowl, won 1.

There's little doubt in my mind that Holmgren was a much more successful coach. He also had to deal with Favre early in his career - much of the coaching staff suggested starting Mark Brunell over Favre going into the 95(?) season. Holmgren got through to him and had a big hand in making him one of the best QBs of the era. That's what a good coach can do.

Our biggest mistake was failing to give Holmgren more responsibility. He wanted to be GM and coach. He went elsewhere to do that. We hired Ray Rhodes for a year after he left, and then made Mike Sherman GM and Coach (the position Holmgren wanted). It was poorly timed, and I think that cost us at least one more superbowl with Favre.

I agree that yesterday those poor passes and catches signal that MM had lost the team. They weren't playing for him. 12 is really good at making things happen outside the pocket, but you CANNOT design an offense around that. We need to get the ball out and run designed plays much more than we do. 12 may be responsible for failing to get the ball out to the designed targets, but who is holding him accountable for that? He needs someone that can coach him, or strip him of the ability to change plays if he can't use it responsibly.

Yeah I don't think anyone has ever thought that .

No one holds him accountable for anything because he's Aaron Rodgers and can do no wrong.
You got 2 choices now, A tough hard ass coach that can hold him accountable, or a yes man that will just do whatever Rodgers says. Don't know anything aboot the runnings of the team so I have no idea what they will do.

I would expect a yes man/crony in the mold of late 90s elway/Shanahan.

It just makes sense. Rogers is the guy for at least a few more years so may as well cater to him.

If they can get late 90s Elway/Shanahan results, I doubt GB will complain.

That’s your best case, yes.

If they can get a running game like that they'd love it...well I don't know if Rodgers would.

EDIT: Also Shanahan was a VERY special case. Do find a coach that looks exactly like your team name/mascot is virtually impossible.

Rodgers has always wanted a strong run game. He's good in play action, but we've never really been able to set that up. He's been pretty vocal this year about getting Aaron Jones the ball more this year. Our failure to recognize talent already on the roster is another sticking point with me.

He also lobbied to get Lynch in town when he left Buffalo (we were in position to obtain him out of the draft, as well).

Why? Rodgers is locked into a huge contract. No need to cater to him. Get a hard ass coach in there to put him in his place. Has Ditka recovered from his heart attack yet?

It's pretty obvious that Rodgers' last two injuries have diminished him significantly. He's not getting any younger. We will see if he is back to his old self next year. Frankly, if this is the new Rodgers, then he is not worth his contract. If so, make his life miserable with a hard ass coach so he either gets his shit together, or retires. Maybe then he'll have time to call his mom.

Hey now, it was Elway had the horse teeth.

He is if they spend monies and lure good players to the team; Without Rodgers GB is the hottest destination out there. Elway was way down at the end too but he had enough to make plays when they count....they're still talking aboot that stupid SB run.
I agree the days of the old sack slinger Rodgers winning everything by himself are over.

Agree to disagree

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Woah, that's meth teeth right there.

The problem is that Green Bay can't spend money to lure good players because all the cap space went to Rodgers contract. And frankly, it would take a premium to get good veteran players to play for the packers. Noone wants to freeze their ass off in a boring little town playing with a douche qb that blames everyone but himself for their shortcomings.

The Packers will have plenty of cap room next year.

Not on that list is a potential cut of Nick Perry and his 14m, and Jimmy Graham and his 13m.

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I'll just leave this here.

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Can't wait to see how Rodgers spends it.

Kareem Hunt would be my first and last goal during the off season.

Maybe some of you wisconsin guys can weigh in, but I heard a rumor from someone in the gay community about Rodgers. That Danica Patrick is a "beard" and that Rodgers is not close with his family because they are devout christians.

There were rumors a few years ago. I don't think there was any basis for those rumors. It would be pretty shitty of his family to turn their back on him (collectively) for that reason. It would also be kind of strange to get a couple of girlfriends that are in on that scheme.

Either way, I simply don't care about the sexual preference of anyone (except my wife i suppose). I would hope for his sake that he's not covering up who he really is for fear of some sort of backlash.

OP's got you covered (this would be from four years ago):

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ot-official-2013-2014-nfl-thread/page/33#post-1344294

I don't, know if it'd call all the Kevin stuff baseless, but it's his life and i sure as shit
Aren't giving football men the benefit of the doubt accepting that shit. Someone that high profile... It would be tough

Yeah that's brilliant. Bring in some hard ass to piss off your franchise QB who basically OWNS WISCONSIN and your team for the next few years. What could possibly go wrong?

They are not going to hire a coach without 12's sign off, period. If it doesn't work out you can just get rid of said coach when you get rid of Rogers within a few years.

It is brilliant. He can't go anywhere and he doesn't OWN WISCONSIN anymore. Why not piss him off. He'll either sink or swim. Coddling never works. It didn't work with you.

Oh, never heard about that.

God this is dumb. Is there anybody here who agrees with this idiocy? They already HAD a coach that Rodgers didn't like, remember? They fired him yesterday. Give me one coherent reason why they should go through the trouble just to hire another one.

I don't give a shit, I'm not a Green Bay fan. But you'd have to be pretty dumb to think that 12 isn't the face and identity of the franchise, and that they'll obviously be hiring a coach they think he'll work well with.

And there's that $100 million guaranteed contract they just signed him to.

"Hey, let's bring back Ditka to scream at him for 3 years! Brilliant! And hire vicjw to run this team, that guy has some smart ideas!"

I think you need a coach that will be collaborative, but firm. MM did seem to give 12 a little too much slack. He let him throw out plays in pregame meetings. He let him alter the play at the line. It's still a question about timeouts, but if he allowed 12 to take TOs to salvage a 5yd penalty, that was also a mistake.

Rodgers is a diva. He does need someone to actually coach him, and hold him accountable when he bucks the gameplan and decides to ignore his progressions in the hopes of extending the play. He also seems worried about protecting his stats at times. Some people praise him for his 1int this season, but I think that represents missed opportunities. He's much more willing to take a sack than to allow his receivers a chance at a 50/50 ball. Both kill drives.

I'm not blaming you guys cause it's a Monday and there's not much else to talk about. But man we are spending a lot of keystrokes on a 4-7 team that can't beat the Cardinals.

Don't make us pull up the graphic of the things that need to happen for them to make the playoffs!

But honestly, it's an extremely shocking move for a franchise that just likes to move along real quietly.
Packers have just pulled a very unpacker thing that makes them look weak and wont help them land a coach...although I guess it doesn't matter because AR will probably pick a young offensive dude to try to turn them into KC or Rams.

Maybe they'll bring farve back to coach? Havne''t heard anything aboot him in a bit huh?

A very fair analysis, ya ever get up here ill buy ya a beer. Im in gb today, alot of anti murphy sentiment up here as well. Although i dont know how achange at that level would happen. He thinks the team is his.

Most likely because it kind of is.

Lol, ya kno what i mean. Hes not THE owner. I am A owner, and i assume he is A owner. But he is not THE owner.

Gee, I hate to say you are completely wrong on this. If you think that a coach that kisses Rodgers ass is better for the franchise than a coach that will challenge Rodgers to be better, well that is your opinion man. I’m not gonna call it idiocy.

I dunno if I agree w Dungy or Harrison on the timing of the firing of MM..I kinda lean w Dungy..give the man some respect- If that exists much anymore..and why not wait till the end of the season..maybe things started to change when Montgomery ran that ball out, when he shouldn’t of..and he was shipped out. GB has been spoiled w great qbs and playoffs for years..things are changing now, and how they’re doin business is...I dunno. I’m a fan of the game, and realize that it’s a business 1st..if GB was smart, they’d be patient and find an experienced coach (not like Gruden!) who could listen/deal with Rodgers and hopefully make the cheeseheads happy...

I'll take a double dose of whatever AP is having

Heard today that much of the reason that we may have let MM go midseason is so we can talk to coaches from the same agency. The name I heard was Josh McDaniels. I'm undecided on how I feel about that.

You guys are in here bitching about a team that has had two starting QBs since 1992, meanwhile my Browns are on QB 1,407 since 1999! We drafted Johnny "F**king" Manziel at 22...overall!!!

Oh, and one playoff APPEARANCE since '99. Not win. Appearance. Take a step back and reflect. You've had a bad season (same record as this years Browns team, ouch). You'll be fine.

What part don't you like? The fact he was a terrible coach that was fired in 2 years or the fact he's a Bellicheck guy who h means he'll be very be a good coach?
Hey don't act too quickly, Matt Patricia may be available too.

We're having a discussion about football. Noone is bitching. As a Browns fan though, you are free to bitch.

Has any New England guy ever turned out to be a good hire? I can't think of one.

Nope. Lions quit on Patricia pretty quick too. I think he's going to trade Stafford too

Who do you cheer for?

As a browns fan you should be happy, this is the best you've looked in 40 years.

I don't think you know anything about the lions.

Which is a sign he's been making good life choices ...

Pete Carroll did some pretty good things at USC and with the Seahawks.

He's a jets coach dumbass

They all gotta start somewhere and with him it might have been the Bills.

Bengals fans are hoping they pick up Hue Jackson

Trust me no one wants Hue for Head Coach.

Except for Mike Brown

Hue is a great "one dimensional" type of coach but not suited for head coaching duties. A good example of Hue is Dick Lebeau , great defensive coach but not so great as head coach. Too much information for either to process, they can only focus on one area at a time. I think Mike Brown will consider keeping Hue but not as head coach. I personally would like Cincy to approach Harbaugh in Michigan and see if he wants to come back to the NFL.