(Topic ID: 57695)

OT Official NFL thread


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6 years ago



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There are 15678 posts in this topic. You are on page 213 of 314.
#10601 1 year ago
Quoted from tomdrum:

Josh McDaniels is NOT leaving. Guess he's getting the job when BB retires.

Just a little of what is being said in Indianapolis.

There is sleazy, and then there's Josh McDaniels.

There is duplicitous, and then there's Josh McDaniels.

There is fraudulent, and then there's Josh McDaniels.

There is, well, I can't use most of the words that accurately describe McDaniels, who left the Colts at the altar Tuesday, backing out of the team's head coaching job less than 24 hours before an introductory press conference scheduled for 4 p.m. Wednesday at Lucas Oil Stadium.

I feel sorry for the members of HIS team that were being put together that already signed and moved here.

Added: We are starting to call it "Coachgate" already.

#10602 1 year ago
Quoted from Grayman_EM:

Just a little of what is being said in Indianapolis.
There is sleazy, and then there's Josh McDaniels.
There is duplicitous, and then there's Josh McDaniels.
There is fraudulent, and then there's Josh McDaniels.
There is, well, I can't use most of the words that accurately describe McDaniels, who left the Colts at the altar Tuesday, backing out of the team's head coaching job less than 24 hours before an introductory press conference scheduled for 4 p.m. Wednesday at Lucas Oil Stadium.
I feel sorry for the members of HIS team that were being put together that already signed and moved here.
Added: We are starting to call it "Coachgate" already.

Well you know as well as anybody: it ain’t a deal till you are loading up the truck!!

#10603 1 year ago
Quoted from Grayman_EM:

Just a little of what is being said in Indianapolis.
There is sleazy, and then there's Josh McDaniels.
There is duplicitous, and then there's Josh McDaniels.
There is fraudulent, and then there's Josh McDaniels.
There is, well, I can't use most of the words that accurately describe McDaniels, who left the Colts at the altar Tuesday, backing out of the team's head coaching job less than 24 hours before an introductory press conference scheduled for 4 p.m. Wednesday at Lucas Oil Stadium.
I feel sorry for the members of HIS team that were being put together that already signed and moved here.
Added: We are starting to call it "Coachgate" already.

As a Broncos fan, allow me to observe that you dodged a bullet. McDaniels is a great OC, but I don’t think he’s got the temperament to be a successful head coach. Hopefully the Pats will find that out when Old Bill throws in the towel.

#10604 1 year ago
Quoted from Xerico:

Joe Montana is the Best Quarterback Of All Time in my opinion.
Marcus

Brady
17 Years, 15 DivChamp, 12 AFCCG, 8 SB Trips, 5 Titles, 4 SB MVPs, 3 NFL MVPs, 66k yards, 488 TDs
vs. Montana
16 Years, 10 DivChamp, 8 NFCCG, 4 SB Trips, 4 Titles, 3 SB MVPs, 2 NFL MVPs, 40k yards, 273 TDs

What are you using as a comparison?

#10605 1 year ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

Brady
17 Years, 15 DivChamp, 12 AFCCG, 8 SB Trips, 5 Titles, 4 SB MVPs, 3 NFL MVPs, 66k yards, 488 TDs
vs. Montana
16 Years, 10 DivChamp, 8 NFCCG, 4 SB Trips, 4 Titles, 3 SB MVPs, 2 NFL MVPs, 40k yards, 273 TDs
What are you using as a comparison?

People have a lot of reasons for their opinions on this stuff. I think Tom is the GOAT. But Montana was something special, and a lot of (old) people might say he had tougher competition in the NFC in those days. Certainly, brady has been lucky enough to feast on a TERRIBLE division for almost his entire career, getting to play the Jets, Bills, and Dolphins twice every year.

But his stats and accomplishments are undeniable, especially as the ONLY player to be on all of those Pats super bowl teams since his first one. It really is incredible...that team has turned over like 3 times since his run began.

#10606 1 year ago

Joe Montana

4-0 in Super Bowls
11 touchdowns 0 interceptions.

In baseball that's called batting 1000.

#10607 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

Joe Montana
4-0 in Super Bowls
11 touchdowns 0 interceptions.
In baseball that's called batting 1000.

Mark Rypien is 1-0 in Super Bowls so I think he's in the convo.

#10608 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Mark Rypien is 1-0 in Super Bowls so I think he's in the convo.

He's no Doug Williams

#10609 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

Joe Montana
4-0 in Super Bowls
11 touchdowns 0 interceptions.
In baseball that's called batting 1000.

Wait...he only went to FOUR Super Bowls? Why didn't he go to more?

#10610 1 year ago

Bradshaw is 4-0 in SB too but no one is going to call him better than Brady.

#10611 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Mark Rypien is 1-0 in Super Bowls so I think he's in the convo.

Passes Completed 18
Had Intercepted 1
Tackled Attempting to Pass 0
Yards Lost Attempting to Pass 0
Yards Gained Passing (Net) 292

Quoted from Erik:

He's no Doug Williams

Passes Completed 18
Had Intercepted 1
Tackled Attempting to Pass 2
Yards Lost Attempting to Pass 18
Yards Gained Passing (Net) 322

#10612 1 year ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

Wait...he only went to FOUR Super Bowls? Why didn't he go to more?

He got hurt! Back when QBs did not get protected.

I suppose if he hadn't he might have won another, but I doubt he would have gone on to lose three.

Also might have gone on to throw at least one interception, but that wasn't really like him in the big game.

#10613 1 year ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

Wait...he only went to FOUR Super Bowls? Why didn't he go to more?

they did not cheat back then...

#10614 1 year ago

With Montana healthy and ready to play, a quarterback controversy soon emerged. Steve Young had proven his effectiveness in the two years he played while Montana was injured, and many fans and players alike felt that they had made the transition to Steve Young. Furthermore, Young did not want to play if he was used only as a backup. But there was also a strong sentiment that Montana was the "face of the franchise" and it would be right for him to remain so. A rift in the locker room developed, and Montana ultimately requested a trade. Although Young eventually led the team to another Super Bowl victory, he was never able to play without being reminded of being in the shadow of the player he replaced.

#10615 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

I suppose if he hadn't he might have won another, but I doubt he would have gone on to lose three.

Well that's cause any NFC team wouldn't have lost back then...unless you're as shitty as Theisman.

#10616 1 year ago

All that we may never know, but I'd imagine we would all agree that

The Steelers are still the greatest Super Bowl franchise of all time.

#10617 1 year ago

Steve Young was a great QB in his own right.

Montana = shorter season and far more physically punishing.

Brady = longer season and less physical punishment

Do they even out? Hard to make that call but, I'm still leaning towards Brady.

#10618 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

All that we may never know, but I'd imagine we would all agree that
The Steelers are still the greatest Super Bowl franchise of all time.

#10619 1 year ago
Quoted from RWH:

Montana = shorter season and far more physically punishing.

No shorter season unless you include bye weeks. He played 16 game seasons.

Although I will say the 49rs dynasty with 5 Lombardi trophies in 14 years and no losses during that time is very impressive as well.

#10620 1 year ago
Quoted from RWH:

Montana = shorter season and far more physically punishing.
Brady = longer season and less physical punishment

Montana didn't play in the 50s!!!! I'm pretty sure he played during 16-game seasons just like Brady.

#10621 1 year ago

There was one less weekend of playoffs prior to 1990 with no bye week for best records, but Brady didn't play that extra game anyway.

#10622 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

He got hurt! Back when QBs did not get protected.
I suppose if he hadn't he might have won another, but I doubt he would have gone on to lose three.
Also might have gone on to throw at least one interception, but that wasn't really like him in the big game.

Well then I say RGIII is the greatest QB ever. Before the injuries he was almost unstoppable!

#10623 1 year ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

Well then I say RGIII is the greatest QB ever. Before the injuries he was almost unstoppable!

For sure!

#10624 1 year ago
Quoted from RWH:

Steve Young was a great QB in his own right.

Up until the last couple years I considered Young the best I'd ever seen. Comparatively short career of course.

I was sure he'd kick off a new age of mobile qbs dominating the league. So of course it went 180 deg the other direction!

#10625 1 year ago
Quoted from Erik:

Up until the last couple years I considered Young the best I'd ever seen.

I remember when he played for LA!

steve-young-USFL (resized).jpg

#10626 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

I remember when he played for LA!

Standing room only!

#10627 1 year ago
Quoted from Erik:

I was sure he'd kick off a new age of mobile qbs dominating the league.

Well whilst he was riding the pine Cunninham had already started that revolution. Sadly those pesky concussions didn;t help anyone

#10628 1 year ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Well whilst he was riding the pine Cunninham had already started that revolution. Sadly those pesky concussions didn;t help anyone

The revolution comes and goes. Elway and Young were both mobile guys. Now you have Cam, Wilson (whose had the most success), and athletic guys like Alex Smith who do well extending plays.

Cuningham was the most electrifying - his highlight reel stuff from the late 80s/early 90s is amazing. RG3 was right up there but that crash and burn was fast and ugly.

#10629 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

The revolution comes and goes. Elway and Young were both mobile guys. Now you have Cam, Wilson (whose had the most success), and athletic guys like Alex Smith who do well extending plays.
Cuningham was the most electrifying - his highlight reel stuff from the late 80s/early 90s is amazing. RG3 was right up there but that crash and burn was fast and ugly.

Fran Tarkenton

Sorry Had to get that in the before the old man posts it!

Wilson I think is the smartest aboot it. Cam, like Gronk, is almost too big for his own good. He'll be racking up the concussions at the highest rate as he just plows through everyone. Young was a super smart guy...but competitive edge pushed him too far.

#10630 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Cuningham was the most electrifying - his highlight reel stuff from the late 80s/early 90s is amazing. RG3 was right up there but that crash and burn was fast and ugly.

Hah remember when he'd punt on 3rd and long and net like 70 yds? I can't remember the last time I saw anyone do that

#10631 1 year ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Fran Tarkenton

Sorry Had to get that in the before the old man posts it!

Ha! Wasn't that the dude from That's Incredible?

#10632 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

Ha! Wasn't that the dude from That's Incredible?

You're thinking of John Davidson

#10633 1 year ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

John Davidson

No that's the dude who's claim to fame was appearing on game shows.

#10634 1 year ago

Tobin Rote was one of the vintage QB scramblers with over 3000 yards rushing in his NFL career.

#10635 1 year ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

Brady
17 Years, 15 DivChamp, 12 AFCCG, 8 SB Trips, 5 Titles, 4 SB MVPs, 3 NFL MVPs, 66k yards, 488 TDs
vs. Montana
16 Years, 10 DivChamp, 8 NFCCG, 4 SB Trips, 4 Titles, 3 SB MVPs, 2 NFL MVPs, 40k yards, 273 TDs
What are you using as a comparison?

First, Montana played for 15 Seasons. He played as a starter in 12 seasons. Of those 12, he played in 2 strike shortened seasons.

So his actual stats are based on 15 years in the NFL, with 12 full time seasons as a starter.

Second,

TL;DR version -- Montana's Super Bowl performances were superior to Brady's Super Bowl Performances

The long version --

When I compare all time great players, I put significant weight on player performance in championship games.
And in the Super Bowl, there is no better quarterback than Joe Montana.

Montana went 4-0 in his Super Bowl Appearances.
He threw for 11 Touchdowns and zero interceptions.
And ran for 2 rushing Touchdowns.

In his first 4 Super Bowls, Brady went 3-1.
He threw 7 touchdowns and one interception.

In his next 4 Super Bowls, Brady went 2-2.
He threw 11 touchdowns and 4 interceptions.

In Brady's four best Super Bowl wins, he threw 11 touchdowns and 3 interceptions.
If you add Brady's fifth win, he threw 12 touchdowns and 3 interceptions.

In my opinion, I value a quarterback that throws 11 touchdowns and zero interceptions higher than a quarterback with 12 touchdowns and 3 interceptions.

Now let's look at best games in these wins (by Rating)

1)
Montana - 1989 SB XXIV vs Denver (W) 55-10 : 22/29, 5 TDS, 0 INT, 297 YDS, 0 Rushing TD, 147.6 Rating
Brady - 2004 SB XXXIX vs Philadelphia (W) 24-21 : 23/33, 2 TDS, 0 INT, 236 YDS, 0 Rushing TD, 110.2 Rating

2)
Montana - 1984 SB XIX vs Miami (W) 38-16 : 24/35, 3 TDS, 0 INT, 331 YDS, 1 Rushing TD, 127.2 Rating
Brady - 2014 SB XLIX vs Seattle (W) 28-24 : 37/50, 4 TDS, 2 INT, 328 YDS, 0 Rushing TD, 101.1 Rating

3)
Montana - 1988 SB XXIII vs Cincinnati (W) 20-16 : - 23/36, 2 TDS, 0 INT, 357 YDS, 0 Rushing TD, 115.2 Rating
Brady - 2003 SB XXXVIII vs Carolina (W) 32-29 : 32/48, 3 TDS, 1 INT, 354 YDS, 0 Rushing TD, 100.5 Rating

4)
Montana - 1981 SB XVI vs Cincinnati (W) 26-21 : 14/22, 1 TD, 0 INT, 157 YDS, 1 Rushing TD, 100.0 Rating
Brady - 2016 SB LI vs Atlanta (W) 34-28 : 43/62, 2 TD, 1 INT, 466 YDS, 0 Rushing TD, 95.2 Rating

And in Brady's fifth win
Brady - 2001 SB XXVI vs St Louis Rams (W) 20-17 : 16/27, 1 TD, 0 INT, 145 YDS, 86.2

Now the intangibles ...

In his best four wins, Brady's Patriots defeated Donovan McNabbs Eagles, Russell Wilson's Seahawks and Matt Ryan's Falcons.
If you add his fifth win, he also defeated Kurt Warner's Rams.

In his four wins, Montana's 49ers defeated Ken Anderson's Bengals, Dan Marino's Dolphins and John Elway's Broncos. His games versus two top 5 QBs of all time were blowouts.

In my opinion, Montana's regular season stats as well as his stellar Super Bowl performances set the standard by which any quarterback is measured

I have been blessed to watch the entire careers of Montana, Elway, Young, Marino, Favre, Kelly, Manning, Rogers and Brady.
And while Brady is without a doubt the best quarterback of his generation, he is still not the GOAT in my eyes. Based on my own observations and analysis, Joe Montana is still the GOAT.

When comparing greatness, any flaw or mistake is amplified. And on the biggest stage the NFL offers, Brady made mistakes. He has fumbled and thrown interceptions.

And let this little nugget sit in your mind.
Brady's best rating in a Super Bowl win would have been fourth best for Montana.

This is what I base my conclusion. While some may not agree with me, that's ok. But I'm perfectly satisfied with my own analysis.

Marcus

#10636 1 year ago
Quoted from Xerico:

In his four wins, Montana's 49ers defeated Ken Anderson's Bengals, Dan Marino's Dolphins and John Elway's Broncos. His games versus two top 5 QBs of all time were blowouts.

Boy, do I feel left out.

download (resized).jpg

#10637 1 year ago

I don't agree with it all but but there's a ton of good points in there.

I'll always think Elway is so far over rated it hurts...and those early SB teams he was on were piss poor. Beating the losers doesn't mean much.

#10638 1 year ago
Quoted from Xerico:

Montana - 1984 SB XIX vs Miami (W) 38-16 : 24/35, 3 TDS, 0 INT, 331 YDS, 1 Rushing TD, 127.2 Rating

This is the one that learned me.

Miami was no pushover that year and went 14-2, and in his second season Marino had set records of over 5000 yards and 48 TDs and smoked the Steelers in the championship game.

The game could have been close but Marino made several mistakes, Montana made none. End result blowout. That's when I knew. Joe was as cool as it gets.

#10639 1 year ago

Great write up xerico!

I agree and it is not even close.

#10640 1 year ago

Did Joe Montana ever cry or not shake the opponents hand after one of his Super Bowl losses?

Oh, wait a minute....

#10641 1 year ago

Vick was the best running quarterback except he couldn't outrun the law

If Montana would have won a super bowl with K.C he'd be the goat but Brady has 5 and joe cool only 4 so it's a great debate and he feasted on the nfc west as Tom has feasted on the afc east so i think that's a wash

#10642 1 year ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

Brady
17 Years, 15 DivChamp, 12 AFCCG, 8 SB Trips, 5 Titles, 4 SB MVPs, 3 NFL MVPs, 66k yards, 488 TDs
vs. Montana
16 Years, 10 DivChamp, 8 NFCCG, 4 SB Trips, 4 Titles, 3 SB MVPs, 2 NFL MVPs, 40k yards, 273 TDs
What are you using as a comparison?

The difference too is back when Montana played, quarterbacks actually got hit repetitively....hell, you were able to hit a player hard in general. Brady has great protection from his O line, and you can't deny that is a big part of his success.

I am curious how he would've held up over the years if he was taking some of the big hits quarterbacks of the past used to take, or at least as many. In his new Atkins shape, I'm not sure he would hold up well.

#10643 1 year ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

The difference too is back when Montana played, quarterbacks actually got hit repetitively....hell, you were able to hit a player hard in general. Brady has great protection from his O line, and you can't deny that is a big part of his success.
I am curious how he would've held up over the years if he was taking some of the big hits quarterbacks of the past used to take, or at least as many. In his new Atkins shape, I'm not sure he would hold up well.

I see what you're saying but I would add that in 18 years he has been incredibly durable despite being the 9th most sacked qb in NFL history. In fact, he has been sacked 452 times compared to Montana's 313 times. Lots of good/great QBs didn't make it through last season but there was Brady, at 40 yo not missing a beat.

#10644 1 year ago

He's getting hit by bigger and faster player's in today's game and plays in a cold weather region when playing at home and has been hit 289 times in the past 5 seasons not to shabby for being in his late thirties and still playing

#10645 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

they did not cheat back then...

Lol

They were all on roids and speed.

#10646 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Lol
They were all on roids and speed.

And coke the decade of excess what a party

#10647 1 year ago

I seen an article where the spice girls are reuniting maybe they'll be next year's halftime entertainment

#10648 1 year ago
Quoted from dhard:

I seen an article where the spice girls are reuniting maybe they'll be next year's halftime entertainment

It’s certainly weird enough for it.

Reportedly posh is agreeing “on the condition that she doesn’t have to sing.”

As far as this “best ever” argument?

Come on folks. It’s settled. The 5th ring settled it. The longevity settled it. The 8...EIGHT Super Bowls with changing
Casts of characters settled it. At this point it’s almost getting embarrassing to try to compare the two, BrAdy is so dominant in a side by side.

I’m sorry but it’s true. There’s always gonna be old guys who think whoever lit it up when they were young is the GOAT cause old but no matter what in the future, it’s going to be a very distinct minority still clinging to the idea that Montana is the goat and Brady isn’t.

#10649 1 year ago

Reminds me of the Ali, Tyson debate. Different athletes at different times.

#10650 1 year ago

If Montana played 12 full time seasons as a starter, then he averages 1 Super Bowl appearance in every 3 years. Brady is almost 1 in every 2 years.

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