(Topic ID: 251803)
https://www.instagram.com/p/B2nX2isHgZY/
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Blacktown
Marion, IA
I wonder what the point would be. This still looks like a (non-shooting) retheme of ToM
The AP version has so much going for it compared to this mess
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:I wonder what the point would be. This still looks like a (non-shooting) retheme of ToM
The AP version has so much going for it compared to this mess
The art on the Houdini that American pinball ended up selling to me and many others looks like late 1990s computer era opengl styled graphics technology garbage. For many the steampunk photoshopish characters do nothing for them, hell they are insulting to look at. So, for many of us knowing that a jpop version, with actual good art and not so psychotic tight shots on it was the original path leaves us baffled, annoyed, saddened and kinda scammed by what Houdini was actually released. Side note, sure I'm happy the bastard version of Houdini was made for many reasons, but delete its gimmicks and rarity and its more of a reject game than a classic.
Quoted from HighProtein:The art on the Houdini that American pinball ended up selling to me and many others looks like late 1990s computer era opengl styled graphics technology garbage. For many the steampunk photoshopish characters do nothing for them, hell they are insulting to look at. So, for many of us knowing that a jpop version, with actual good art and not so psychotic tight shots on it was the original path leaves us baffled, annoyed, saddened and kinda scammed by what Houdini was actually released. Side note, sure I'm happy the bastard version of Houdini was made for many reasons, but delete its gimmicks and rarity and its more of a reject game than a classic.
I could not possibly disagree more, but we're all entitled to our opinion, right? Caveat emptor!
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:I could not possibly disagree more, but we're all entitled to our opinion, right? Caveat emptor!
Yup, one man's eyesore is another's masterpiece.
Quoted from harryhoudini:That looks horrible.
Quoted from KHL:This looks 10X radder than what AP made, the art is actually engaging to look at.
Agreed
Quoted from ForceFlow:https://www.instagram.com/p/B2nX2isHgZY/[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Page has been deleted, seriously does anyone believe AP would produce another Houdini machine when they just stopped production of the one that actually shoots, is coded, has no shots that don't go anywhere, etc.?
Quoted from HighProtein:Here are the original photos a dude took from its initial publicish showing 3 years ago...[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Really old news. Nothing to see here. Move along.
Quoted from bobukcat:Page has been deleted, seriously does anyone believe AP would produce another Houdini machine when they just stopped production of the one that actually shoots, is coded, has no shots that don't go anywhere, etc.?
Thanks for the clarification - I thought this was going to be a DR game since that’s where JPoop slinked off to
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:Thanks for the clarification - I thought this was going to be a DR game since that’s where JPoop slinked off to
That's what I assumed when I saw the topic but it's posted in the AP group, has AP tagged on the Instagram posts (now deleted) and those are definitely AP boxes shown as well.
Quoted from bobukcat:Page has been deleted, seriously does anyone believe AP would produce another Houdini machine when they just stopped production of the one that actually shoots, is coded, has no shots that don't go anywhere, etc.?
It'd sell better than poker running robin hooding valkyrie flying sherlock holmes...
My favorite part of that private "reveal" in the hotel room was an eyewitness report that "This ain't no box of lights!!!" when clearly, was never more than just a box of lights.
The good news? This debacle resulted in Jpop being banished forever from pinball, never to return! We also got that instant classic AP Houdini out of it too, which redefined what we all think of when we think "pinball."
Merthyr Tydfil
Is that exactly the same playfield as from three years ago? Because both Ben Heck and I thought the geometry in certain areas of the original seemed way off.
Quoted from EalaDubhSidhe:Is that exactly the same playfield as from three years ago? Because both Ben Heck and I thought the geometry in certain areas of the original seemed way off.
Looks that way
Quoted from CrazyLevi:My favorite part of that private "reveal" in the hotel room was an eyewitness report that "This ain't no box of lights!!!" when clearly, was never more than just a box of lights.
The good news? This debacle resulted in Jpop being banished forever from pinball, never to return! We also got that instant classic AP Houdini out of it too, which redefined what we all think of when we think "pinball."
Oh, the sarcasm!
Winnipeg, MB
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:I like the looks of Jpop version better than the Balcer one.
Same here.
Is there a third mini-flipper under that Pharoah head? I keep getting the impression there should be, but I know John hates them.
Quoted from KingBW:FWIW, here is a photo I took at 2016 Expo. I have wondered "why" this playfield layout was changed after all of the hype at the 2016 Expo. Still wonder what the confirmed reason was.[quoted image]
This photo seems to indicate that the unnusual ramp placement was a leftover JPop design descision. Crap.
Quoted from KingBW:FWIW, here is a photo I took at 2016 Expo. I have wondered "why" this playfield layout was changed after all of the hype at the 2016 Expo. Still wonder what the confirmed reason was.[quoted image]
If it’s anything like Magic Girl, it’s because none of the shit actually works. 
Quoted from KingBW:FWIW, here is a photo I took at 2016 Expo. I have wondered "why" this playfield layout was changed after all of the hype at the 2016 Expo. Still wonder what the confirmed reason was.[quoted image]
The story, as told here and other places goes something like this; they hired Joe Balcer to finalize the design and bring it to production. Joe spent some time with it and said something like "ain't no fucking way" and came up with a completely new design that AP delivered in about a year. And the "hype" at the time they showed the JPOP design was really, really muted because of the fact JPOP was in the middle of the whole ZIDWARE "sorry I stole all your Magic Girl money".
It's prettty abstract-looking as a playfield, in that as nice as the art is, the detail that catches your eye is all at the bottom, and the rest is colour flashes and zaps that are being overlaid by physical elements that don't represent anything very clearly. Clearly a ton of work went into it all, but all his WMS games contain a greater number of recognisable thematic elements in a more organised way. TOTAN in particular has way more physical stuff present but is clearer to read and leaves more illustration room. John's Houdini just isn't as appealing to my eye, as it manages to look more cluttered, yet emptier at the same time.
Art is obviously subjective but I think the Houdini art package is some of the best in pinball. I was blown away when I first saw it in person. API stayed historically true to Houdini and his life's work with the exception of the Victorian/Steampunk elements but that twist looks as bad ass as hell.
People who bitch about Houdini having tight shots and yet don't say the same about Stern's tight shots have ZERO credibility. You can say Houdini has no flow but the shots are not miles tighter than some of the shots on many Stern ramps.
The Jpop/Matt Andrews artwork isn't terrible but it doesn't hold a candle to APIs final artwork.
Quoted from konjurer:Art is obviously subjective but I think the Houdini art package is some of the best in pinball. I was blown away when I first saw it in person. API stayed historically true to Houdini and his life's work with the exception of the Victorian/Steampunk elements but that twist looks as bad ass as hell.
People who bitch about Houdini having tight shots and yet don't say the same about Stern's tight shots have ZERO credibility. You can say Houdini has no flow but the shots are not miles tighter than some of the shots on many Stern ramps.
The Jpop/Matt Andrews artwork isn't terrible but it doesn't hold a candle to APIs final artwork.
Nailed it
Quoted from konjurer:Art is obviously subjective but I think the Houdini art package is some of the best in pinball. I was blown away when I first saw it in person. API stayed historically true to Houdini and his life's work with the exception of the Victorian/Steampunk elements but that twist looks as bad ass as hell.
People who bitch about Houdini having tight shots and yet don't say the same about Stern's tight shots have ZERO credibility. You can say Houdini has no flow but the shots are not miles tighter than some of the shots on many Stern ramps.
The Jpop/Matt Andrews artwork isn't terrible but it doesn't hold a candle to APIs final artwork.
What tight stern ramp shots other than 1 on Ghostbusters?
Does anyone here dispute that Houdini was not a market failure? I wouldn't think so considering the market on that is even worse then APs follow-up title which is also falling apart so could this version really be any worse?
I would have loved to see more of it considering my opinion on Houdini matches the market.... It's not good.
Quoted from delt31:Does anyone here dispute that Houdini was not a market failure? I wouldn't think so considering the market on that is even worse then APs follow-up title which is also falling apart so could this version really be any worse?
I would have loved to see more of it considering my opinion on Houdini matches the market.... It's not good.
How many people would have refused to touch it with a ten foot pole because of the whole Zidware debacle? AP did the right thing IMO and the Houdini they put out is way better than it gets credit for as is Oktoberfest. Everyone wants something different until they get it or so it seems in this hobby.
Quoted from bobukcat:Everyone wants something different until they get it or so it seems in this hobby.
It’s about time those guys figured that out. Everybody says they want innovation and unlicensed themes and then they don’t buy them.
I don’t think too highly of either AP games but if either one of them were Back to the Future they’d be huge sellers. If AP wants to make a run of it the next game needs to be some group of idiots’ “grail theme,” not Huck Finn or whatever public domain property is probably in the pipeline over there.
The trick is to be both canny and lucky in finding that untapped vein that people *don't know* they want yet - again, see Scott Danesi.
Quoted from delt31:Does anyone here dispute that Houdini was not a market failure? I wouldn't think so considering the market on that is even worse then APs follow-up title which is also falling apart so could this version really be any worse?
I would have loved to see more of it considering my opinion on Houdini matches the market.... It's not good.
Those sentences are hard to understand...
Any pinball machine made that doesn't make a company a profit after research, development and production is a failure. If American pinball made a profit on Houdini and Oktoberfest somehow then congratulations! If they didn't then things need to change on their end. American pinball has a prime opportunity to read this forum to find what buyers actually do and don't actually want. The ball is in their court.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:the next game needs to be some group of idiots’ “grail theme,” not Huck Finn
I just about spit out my coffee. I hope we don't see that one get trademarked by API.
Quoted from HighProtein:What tight stern ramp shots other than 1 on Ghostbusters?
KISS's right ramp and the warp shot on ST come to mind. I would hope that every game has some difficult shots. The reputation that Houdini got about too hard is unfounded based on the trunk lock shot. I had a KISS and the right ramp is way harder to hit consistently than the trunk lock shot.
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