This topic is closed.
You NEED to call law enforcement NOW. Do the work to get a police report filed and be sure that you provide print outs/ scans off 100% of your communication with the guy.
It appears you have stuff well kept track of and this guy flat out stole your game and is trying to sell it.
Take screen captures of EVERYHTHING you find on it as evidence. The more work you do for the cops the better chance they will be able to get something done.
Quoted from woody76:
I would add niftyled in your title also. Most folks around here know that name over orange county pinball.
for sure! Always worth making sure you get the thread on fire and get the word out. If the guy has even a speck of understanding on how business works he will see the thread, contact you privately to ensure you get the machine for EXACTLY the quoted price of the restoration, and then you can return to say all is resolved.
If he is stupid he sinks his business.
Quoted from davebart5:
Well then CGC/PPS needs to know the kind of people they do business with. I’m not buying any games with NIFTY LED’s in it.
It sounds like a dramatic stance, but trust me, I don’t support bullies or crooks. There are plenty of cool games out there to buy and enjoy.
can someone please bring this to the attention of CGC and PPS so they know the LED supplier they are supporting.
take 10 buddies and show up to get the game.
Print our your original agreement and bring the cash to pay. Let him call the cops when he sees he is going to get his ass pummled if he does not deal with it.
Remain calm and show the cops the paperwork and explain you just came to pay the agreed price and pick up the game.
Quoted from jar155:
Who wants to hear the other side of the story? OP isn't exactly the victim he makes himself out to be...
would love to hear it, but no matter what the restorer in this case attempted to sell someone elses property... That is not how you resolve a situation like this.
Quoted from NiftyLED:
$3000 and ill be done with this mess... thats my final offer, needs to be paid in CASH.
Your $2550 doesnt even cover what im in it on parts/sub work
dont be so stupid!!!!!!!!!
Take the mans $2550 or watch your business crumble. This is not a matter of principle for you anymore, this is a matter of business.
It is VERY clear that you attempted to steal the guys machine and sell it. You screwed up and all the evidence made it clear.
Take your lumps, learn to communicate better "If you want chrome added it will cost X, bringing the total to Y now. Agreed?", learn to quote out work better, and do the right thing and take the $2550 and feel fortunate 10 guys are not showing up to your house on xmas eve to take the game.
Quoted from RyanClaytor:
Here's hoping a civil agreement can be reached...without additional public smears on either side.
civilty went out the door when your buddy stole the guys machine and put it up for sale. He screwed up, BIG TIME!
I am pissed for the OP.
Prices go up and things can take longer.
People can be mad at the changes and poor communication.
You simple DONT try to sell someones game and break the law in doing so and then request civilty.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:
And why are you so obsessed with the "10 thugs coming to beat the guy up and take the game" gambit? We all know - fortunately - this is NEVER how these disputes are settled around here.
bring the right guys and it never comes to violence. They are the insurance policy for that.
I have learned and witnessed this many times in real life. Bringing the right guys is usually all it takes to get things solved amicably when someone is starting a hostage negotiation
Quoted from NiftyLED:
Damage is done already
sad to see you are not smart enough to realize you could eat your lumps, appologize, and take the $2550.
The pinball community is one of the most forgiving communities I have seen. Hell, I would ever consider supporting you if you woke up and realized your screw up/ admittted it and made it right...
nah, that is legal matter of multiple hundreds of thousands. They did not have any of my personal property to go take back.
This is a simple matter of a local machine and with the right friends I am sure it would be solved rather quickly.
Guessing with the character of Nifty it would go something like:
-knock on door
-nifty looks through peep hole and quickly realizes is freaked out and not opening door
-nifty calls cops to say that some big scary dudes are outside (really no other situation and if I were on the Sticky side of the door I would call cops proactively to let them know that he came to pick up his property and the guy wont let him have it, has already committed theft and fraud)
-cops arrive and Sticky and crew show cops the paperwork and explain they were just here to help his buddy load the pinball machine into his truck. They have the cash and are ready to pay the bill.
-Cops negotiate the situation to ensure the game goes home with rightful owner
Quoted from jgentry:
Or guy is paranoid and on drugs and shoots you through the door.
you have to assess that risk/situation before you get there.
Quoted from jgentry:
The cops are not going to be involved in a civil issue of property without it going through court.
cops would cetainly try to moderate/negotiate the situation quickly around here to get resolution. With nifty posting photos on the web trying to sell the game, that is all they would need to take possession of the game if they needed to.
Quoted from vdojaq:
With that said, law in this case is on YOUR side. You actually may be due damages for him trying to sell your machine if this went to small claims.
I wonder if the judge may rule that the game is worth the 5k that Nifty was trying to sell it for and award damages in that amount?
Quoted from NiftyLED:
Nate here. I'm Daniel's partner in Nifty LED and the repair side of the business, from which this all began. I'm sorry this has gotten so out of hand, and had a couple other things I'd like to clarify: The communication with the customer was there the whole time. It wasn't a sudden increase in price, it was just a sudden shock of all the things he agreed to as this went along. We've been completely transparent and whenever pricing was asked, we provided, honored and have been in contact. Before we took the machine, we told the customer that the wait time was going to be VERY long, simply because we had a lot of other machines in queue and changes in our lives were going to slow work even further. We finally got to his and started working on it. We like to take our time, to ensure a good job, and this one was no different.... it took a long time, just as we had told the customer up front. It's sometimes said, "The one who shoots first, is usually the one that wins the gun fight". Clearly, several pages of posts before we had a chance to say out side of the story made us look like the bad guy and we were too late to defend ourselves. Your minds had already been made up, and there's really no use beating a dead horse.
Besides all of this, it's so disheartening to see where this has gone. Daniel and I have a strong client base and if you know us, personally, or have shaken our hand at the shows, I'm sure you'd agree that the way we've been made out to look like is certainly not our character. The posting of the game on eBay was inappropriate and we have no excuses for it. We were seeking reimbursement for the time and parts we had put into the game. For that, we apologize for the lapse in judgement. After invoicing the customer, he eventually stopped communicating and we were left wondering what to do from there. We tried reaching out several times but there was radio silence from him.
As a side note, I fell in love with pinball several years ago and became a member of Pinside almost immediately (private acct) and have since been less active due to a busy schedule. So many people in our local pinball league have said what a toxic place Pinside has become and I've always tried to stay positive and see the good in people on this forum but unfortunately we have become the one which fingers are being pointed at. This hurts. I can't help but feel the same way as them and although Pinside is supposed to be a conduit for us as a place to learn, help each other it seems to have turned into something else. I'm sad that this place, the very thing that's supposed to HELP pinball, is one of the reasons I've begun to lose a lot of interest in pinball. The fun is gone here.
To those of you who have sent us PM's, text messages and have called us, we appreciate the support. To those of you who think you know the whole story and have condemned us, that's your decision based on an incomplete set of facts and we respect that. Feel free to reply if you wish, but we will not be responding to any more posts.
All we want to hear is that the OP got his game and is happy with it.
Quoted from jar155:
but maybe think through the entire situation for a few minutes
the entire situation is that ANY normal person would NEVER put themselves in that situation. Clear communication surrounding the costs and services would have prevented any of this form ever happening in the first place.
Quoted from jar155:
But hey, if Hilton can't stir a pot he has no business even touching, he'd probably go insane, so what else should I expect?
In case you did not realize, your buddy stole a game and attempted to sell it... there is not much else to the 'other' side of the story after that. EABODs buddy.
Nobody stirred a pot, your buddy showed up with the shit pile and the shit stick and made a shit tornado with his brother Randy Bo Bandy.
Quoted from AdamPinball:
FULL DISCLOSURE (before someone attributes bad motives to me for hiding something): I do know Nate and Daniel both personally and consider them to be friends (I am the fat guy in the picture on page 1).
As part of the community I think it is warranted to tell you that your friendship appears to be clouding your judgement on this matter. We get it, nobody likes to see the true colors of a friend/s when they do something like this to another person in the community. It can be tough on our own psyche as we have to cope with the idea that we missed seeing whom a person really is after we invested time and energy into the friendship.
I think you should take a step back and look at the big picture here:
1> restorer took YEARS to "restore" this game.
2> quality is flat out crap. The pf touchups and entire restoration are unprofesssional and they are charging professional prices. i.e. IMHO they are a scam from day 1 and looking for suckers that are new to restoration thatdont have an eye on what to look for.
3>they are the business and the ones responsible for good communication. They need to protect their butts and ensure they have happy customers. They caused this entire situation to happen and strung along a customer for years.
4>they factually stole the game and tried to sell it after attempting to extort even more funds from a member of the community
5>they had an opportunity to apologize and make it right, but instead they continued to toss it all in the face of the community as a whole
6>after coming to the negotiation and deciding that they would accept $2850 (still WAY too damn much for such a poor restoration), they then delete and run from the situation.
7> to top it all off they start demanding and additional $100 per day storage fee.
8> If that game does not get exchanged for $2850 to the OP with as little hassle as possible and in the exact condition it was before this shitnado started, then they need to be ousted from the community and their business should go down in flames.
You are missing the whole point that there is a community here and in fact they are a big part of what appears to have brought some semblance of sense to your friends to final back down off the hostage negotiation with unreasonable demands.
If they dont make this good then I think the community should continue to make a concerted effort to ensure CGC stops using them for remakes and put the final nail in their coffin.
Seriously, step back... look at all the things your "friends" did and ask yourself if they are still people you want to associate with as friends.
glad that Nifty is making this right.
Please let us know when the game is safe and sound.
Glad that the community could come together and influence them to do the right thing.
Hopefully they learn from this and it is the first step of many to set a new course.
Quoted from stpcore:
Anyone care to estimate what that Playboy is worth now after the restoration?
given the condition of the poor pf restore...
Maybe 2200 and that is pushing it.
Core game 1k, cab repaint, some new boards and displays, plus a REALLY bad pf touch up and that is where I would be. Granted I would personally pass as the pf is bad enough i would rather find a beater for 1k to fix up myself.
This topic is closed.
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