Yeah basically all our correspondence through text. Plus e-mails and so forth.

What a tool is right.

More than that. I mean I have his cell, paypal info, domain, the exact same pics he is advertising with, two years of e-mail, txt, etc.

I go to the police and this ends ends with him having a criminal record. This isn't about the money at this point.

Small claims is the best bet but I see nothing wrong with bringing a police report with me to court.

I can tell you this he won't be able to list it for sale anywhere on the internet while I'm watching. Plus Google will forever have his business and name tied to this thread.

He has another business called niftyled and there are a ton of pics of my machine on the instagram account: https://www.instagram.com/niftyled/

screen (4) (resized).jpeg

He knows exactly what he's doing. Stealing it because I didn't immediately jump at paying the inflated amount he sent me.

The last text was me literally saying I expected the price to be what we agreed to plus the board and touch up.

After this he lists it for sale without ever saying a word about it?

Anyway, whatever, I'm just going through the social media accounts saving everything for documentation.

Anyway, going through the social media account my machine pops up and amusingly someone says just deliver it to the customer already.

I went back through the dates and it's been two years and three months since he got my machine. I was way too lenient and I should have gone with my gut but it's ok just need to keep collecting evidence. This will work itself out. Just sucks as it actually looks great:

nifty (resized).jpeg

He's the guy on the far right in this photo so I'm sure there are some local pinheads who know him

asdfasd (resized).jpg

I believe so, yes.

I guess all my experience in pinball has been so positive with people from pinside that I didn't mind it took so long for this work. I even told him, hey, I'll wait if necessary for quality work. Clearly my machine wasn't a priority but that's ok. I get it that people are busy and to me this is a fun hobby.

This is the first time I've ever experienced anything like this in Pinball. Everyone else I dealt with especially from Pinside had such positive enthusiasm and wanted to share it. This guy wanted to scam me.

I'm a younger guy who is doing pretty well for himself so I guess he saw me as a target.

I can post a few of the texts before but you get the idea. We go over the original $1850 budget and I say I'm out of town so I expected a follow up the next week.

I didn't hear anything and now it's listed for sale by him for $5k...

The chrome, plastic, and LED's were all in the original budget. He just decided to charge me more and I guess isn't even good at math as you point out.

I would never have agreed to $4200 for that work. We agreed to an $1850 budget and then he jacked up the price when he was finally done. I certainly didn't tell him to list my property for sale.

He just texted me saying 'you made it sound like you couldn't pay.'

Odd, isn't it? Especially after he mentioned my Porsche in the garage a few times which I'm sure had no bearing on him jacking up the price...

Just tried and don't see this option. Apparently you are supposed to contact law enforcement.

We know what he was thinking. He was thinking of pocketing $5 grand and hoping I let it go. So now this is his flimsy excuse.

I did but no option for stolen once reporting...

Considering he thought I wouldn't notice him selling my machine online I think he really is that stupid.

Just want to say thanks for the support guys.

He is just saying 'I want it for free' and mocking me going to the cops or to court with this.

I didn't pay much for the machine so it's not a big deal. I bought it with my Getaway from a cool Pinsider who gave me a great deal knowing it was a restoration project.

All he had to do was give me the machine for what we agreed to, no problem. Instead he tried to scam me and sell it.

Thank you for the support.

I did as you recommended. Good idea.

Exactly.

I'm very reasonable. I think that shows in my patience for this plus I hired him for other work as I'm loyal to pinside businesses. I like supporting the guys here and the people who advertise. It's a cool community.

He didn't even try to work anything out. He just went and listed it for sale without ever saying anything or responding to me asking to work it out.

Bingo.

Considering it.

He's now saying it's a mechanics lien sale to try to scare off small claims court. I mean what a piece of work this guy is.

He's handling it all wrong but I'm done playing games. If honoring our agreement isn't worth his reputation then oh well.

Now he wants to remove the chrome, remove plastics, and hack up the machine. That's his 'offer' to me.

So either I pay the extorted amount or he destroys it.

If you consider removing the plastics spite. He's just trying to basically strip out what he can I guess.

I guess he feels if you take a car in for work it's reasonable to strip out the interior or electronics and sell them to offset any additional costs the shop comes up with.

They were. The plastics were the first thing we discussed.

He's just trying any tactic at this point. I'm just done with it. I'll go through the proper channels.

Even if I was out of line or whatever the fact he is willing to completely ruin his company and anyone associated for a few bucks speaks of his character. As if him trying to sell the machine behind my back didn't do that by itself.

Please, all ears.

I'd love to hear it as well.

Maybe I was supposed to wait three years and start asking questions after my machine sells?

Maybe I'm supposed to be a fan of over budget and behind schedule?

Clearly it's on me.

Please provide proof, any proof, of me ignoring texts and requests to pay. Seriously, anything. Any receipt. Any request for payment. ANYTHING.

I posted the final texts I had before my machine was listed illegally for sale without any notice.

Why would you lie like this? For whom? For what?

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Yes a new board for $500 and touchup for $200. I have the texts. That was over a year ago by the way.

I'm literally sitting here saying I'll pay what we agreed to. I literally texted him I would agree to pay even now what we agreed to.

Instead he wrote, 'Oh you made it sound like you couldn't pay.' He didn't write, you never responded to me or any requests for payment or any receipts. What that means is he decided to create his own narrative and steal my machine.

Why someone would imply otherwise with literally zero proof is disappointing to say the least.

EXACTLY! I was fine with that back when I texted him I was fine with that. He is the one who never responded and listed my machine for sale. There was no explanation. No notification. Nothing.

Yes, I'm saying I'll pay what we agreed to. That is the right thing to do, right?

Agreed but even so what gives him the right to try to sell my machine behind my back? Doesn't that alone show plenty of evidence of his intent? He wanted to scam this restore into more money.

This is not about me not paying for work I asked to be done. I am more than willing to pay for the cost of what I requested.

He saw a target and decided to up the price beyond what we agreed to. There is nothing in any correspondence corroborating me saying he can go nuts and just have a blank check to work with. This is not me skipping out on the bill.

This is a scammer who tried to extort money from me and then tried to sell my machine. Let's not muddy the waters with people who refuse to pay. I tried to pay and he took it upon himself to milk this for every dollar even if that means stealing from me.

I'm waiting for it too.

No idea who this guy is but apparently he knows what happend better than I do. People never cease to amaze me.

Bingo. Plus he was inside my home repairing another machine (labor I had no problem paying for, imagine that) and saw what I have and upped the price. When I didn't cave in he tried to sell it on his own and make more money.

Naivety I guess. I wasn't in a rush or anything. I already have pins taking up space.

I told him quality work is worth waiting for when he apologized for how long it was taking but that was in August 2016.

He finally finished it at his leisure and now wants a big payday.

I'm still trying to figure out what I did wrong that has some people defending a guy selling my machine behind my back.

Have we lost perspective here?

How convenient.

So someone I never talked to ever before in Utah apparently knows more about my Playboy machine? If you know so much why didn't you ever PM me? Maybe let me know he was listing it for sale? Maybe said... anything?

I challenge you to prove your assertions. Please.

You're not supposed to sell my machine for over $5k just because you decide to. That's probably the first place to start.

Pitchforks? I posted the texts. I'll gladly post more.

So sorry you got caught.

Guys, ask yourselves if I would have ever agreed to the work if the cost would be $4200.

What is more likely? I agree to $1850 and we add on a board and playfield touch up since it's taking so long or I just said go wild and give me whatever price you feel like. Then, sell the machine if you feel like it too.

Horrible feeling.

Well maybe you communicate with me before you take it upon yourself to sell my property? How about that?

Do you guys see what this is about now? He took my machine, treated it like his own, and now wants to cash it out. So he sends me $800 and makes whatever he is listing it at on Ebay or Craigslist or whatever.

You're a clown. Also, a petty scammer. This is how you need to make money?

$1850 plus the board and touch up. Exactly as my texts state and show.

Even if he went over budget or whatever what gives him the right to decide to sell my game without telling me or even trying to resolve this? Do I seem crazy unreasonable to you?

I just have the texts saying we agreed to $1850 which you notice he doesn't dispute and even in the texts now he goes, 'oohhhhh the original agreed amount' which is the $1850.

Sorry I don't have anything more specific on this as I didn't think I would be taking this to a court of law. I was naive.

Because that doesn't exist.

He just did whatever he wanted, at whatever pace he wanted, and then decided on whatever price he wanted.

He's probably busy selling his cell phone on ebay because it isn't showing him what he wants to see.

You might feel differently about it if it was about your machine someone was trying to sell.

Glad people see through it. Thank you.

At least I got to vent here. Thanks for that guys.

LOL you worked out the math better than I did when I was steaming.

That's exactly it. Exactly what I offered to pay.

Me being surprised he jacked the price to $4200 is a normal reaction I think. It certainly is not evidence of me being unable to pay or giving him permission to sell my machine.

That's odd considering you told me you bought this game previously. Not this theme, this exact machine.

Odd there isn't proof of it. Also odd you would knowing that we agreed to $1850 do work for beyond the amount we agreed to unless you thought I would pay without thinking twice about it.

I guess that happens when you see someone younger than you with a nicer home, a bulldog, two Porsches, a 70 inch 4k screen, three pinball machines, and whatever else you were drooling over.

Exactly that it was in the original $1850 hence why he can't produce the texts. He knows it, I know it, now it is just a battle playing out in a forum to convince others.

Why would he do plastics and everything else if I didn't agree? Why would he do them if there is no request for 'additional' things that will add to the price? Notice he never checked with me saying hey plastics, LED's, etc., will cost so and so? Only for the boards and touch up? Which I readily admit to?

So to clarify you did own it before but don't like it now when it's convenient not to. Got it.

We 'discussed' those things when we set upon $1850 at my house. The very first thing we agreed to in that price was the LED's and plastics.

The price was $2k but I asked if he would do $1850 cash and he said yes.

There is no invoice. There is nothing. No receipt sent to me. Nothing saying he would go over budget. Nothing saying anything about cost until he texted me demanding $4200 and when I didn't pay it but said we should work it out he listed it for sale all on his own which I think says plenty about who to trust here.

Have some f'ing pride man. Just do the right thing.

You're really not better than this?

You can still do the right thing.

Doesn't exist.

If I agreed to $4200 would we be here gentlemen? Would I have expressed immediate shock at his quote?

Is it more likely he didn't get what he thought he would so what does a low character individual do then? He tries to sell my game for EVEN MORE money.

I'd love to see the texts warning me of him selling the game too.

Exactly.

Absolutely. I agree and I was naive.

I never in my life of thought of screwing someone over on a pinball machine.

You saw the cabinet. You are the one who took the job. A job that took almost 2 and a half years as the texts show you constantly missing your quoted dates...

I should have listened to the dog when he didn't want to let him in the house.

Always a good judge of character.

Clearly the proper response to that is to take my machines and sell them.

It's a 911 btw...

He can't.

2017 Carrera! This work took so long I bought a new car in the meantime.

Of course I didn't pay the dealer for the price we agreed upon so he sold my Cayenne while I wasn't looking.

Nope... he was counting on me just accepting it.

Apparently how it works with you is you just sell people's games if they don't give you X amount of money.

Just want to make it clear I'm obviously cheap and refuse to pay for quality items. What other explanation could there be?

He used my game to market on social media and wanted to get more money either from me or by selling it himself...

It's really this simple.

I can't even get over seeing my pin up for sale out of nowhere.

Let's assume even if the costs went up without him telling me how does he justify trying to sell it without any communication? That is blatant theft. How could anyone ever trust this guy with a pin again?

Dog is more than the machine.

I bought a machine over $5k from a pinsider and both of my other machines from pinsiders. I've been on this forum twice as long as you. You think I'm new to pinball costs?

I'm just new to getting screwed by a pinsider, that's all.

All that had to happen here was giving me my game for what we agreed to. That's it. He tried to steal it instead.

Thanks man.

I'll tell you this much, I'm going to you for all future restoration work and LED's.

I'm not sure if you remember us actually talking about me going to this ocpinballrepair guy to get my Playboy restored when I picked up the Champion Pub.

I don't disagree. The 911 I picked up because it is turbocharged so for performance reasons and to develop parts.

I'm a big fan of the C1. Even have a model sitting on my shelf.

I disagree about the projector as since I've been doing 4k gaming on it I just don't think a projector would offer the same image quality in all light levels or do as well with the image speed.

Anyway, obviously communication was poor on his end but that doesn't excuse stealing my machine. He didn't even say anything. He didn't even try to come to terms.

It was more like, 'He won't give me $4200? Screw it I'll sell it and get even more. Who will stop me?'

He can't produce anything saying he intends to a do a 'lien' or whatever else he claims. He literally was caught red handed and instead of stepping up to do the right thing taunts me to go the police. What a shame.

He STILL had a chance here and opted instead to be a coward.

Yeah, I'm really hard to reach, eh?

The Z is not sell my property illegally, I can tell you that. I don't want you doing any equations.

The offer is $2550 after trying to steal my machine and I suggest you take it.

Read over my texts that you said I wasn't 'responding' to.

I believe one says 'I said the amount we agreed to. Not a penny more' and a not a penny more it shall be.

If you need me to post it, let me know.

This is not about the money right now and I think everyone sees that.

This is principle.

I made the same offer I always made which is what we agreed to. No more, no less.

Exactly why I will not pay $3000.

This isn't a hostage negotiation.

Shouldn't you apologize for all the false assertions you made about me pages back?

I went from being hurt and furious to somehow feeling at peace.

Really, it is a great group of people here.

Thank you gentlemen.

I'm ready to resolve this and am just waiting to see if he will do the right thing instead of trying to squeeze out another dollar or two.

If you didn't try to steal my machine and you didn't blatantly lie I would have gladly paid $3k just because I like the machine.

If you want to show contrition and show you are capable of behaving like a human being with some morals I suggest you honor the original agreement and be done with this.

I'm not going to cave. I'm not going to pay you more money for trying to cheat me. I am going to pay what I said I would.

I hear you loud and clear. You guys want this resolved and it is best for the community.

However, I'm the only one who understands what it is like to see the machine in the thread you have waited almost three years for put up for sale behind your back.

I think that's worth $450 of contrition, at the very least. He should consider it the best $450 he ever spent for his business.

This isn't a stalemate. It's you killing niftyled in real time.

In the interest of Pinside and the community I will pay $2550 for the machine and donate $50 to the pinside community for helping this get resolved.

That's more than he deserves but I'll do it to show my holiday spirit and to thank you all for your help.

Can anyone vouch for him?

How would you say he is handling it on a scale of 1 - niftynomore?

He could even get me to say how I feel about the quality of the work, post some pics, some vids, and a little contrition might lead to a better understanding in the future although I'm still pretty upset over seeing my machine listed for sale. Still, positives could come from this.

I can get over it and extended my hand. Why must he try to get every last dollar at this point when this is about much more than money?