Quoted from NiftyLED:So instead of trying to work this out, you resort to name calling? great..
How is "I'll pay you $800 to keep your game" working it out?
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Quoted from NiftyLED:So instead of trying to work this out, you resort to name calling? great..
How is "I'll pay you $800 to keep your game" working it out?
Quoted from NiftyLED:This game was in shambles when it came to me, couldnt even stand on all 4 legs...
And how is that the point? You took his machine, offered to fix it for $X. And now you're saying it's more. You can't change the terms of the agreement.
Now if he really did say, "I'm a blank check, fix whatever you want for as much as you want," then post the texts/emails. Otherwise, you're looking kinda slimy right now.... First rule of holes: When you're in one, stop digging.
Quoted from NiftyLED:Chrome
LED Displays
LED lights
Plastic set
Theres more that he approved to do that he isnt telling you about
Prove it. It's really that simple.
Quoted from NiftyLED:stalemate it is... I'm fine with going to small claims if needed
You shouldn't be. He'll be able to sue for more than just the machine being sold for $2550. He'll be able to get damages on top of that. My landlord learned that the hard way when he refused to return my security deposit...
Quoted from NiftyLED:damages? what damages does he have?
Umm, you taking his machine and not giving it back to him for the agreed upon amount. You'll lose. And end up paying more than the extra $450 you want. But whatever, it's more entertaining for us.
Quoted from Sticky:He could even get me to say how I feel about the quality of the work, post some pics, some vids, and a little contrition might lead to a better understanding in the future although I'm still pretty upset over seeing my machine listed for sale. Still, positives could come from this.
I can get over it and extended my hand. Why must he try to get every last dollar at this point when this is about much more than money?
Have you gone to file a police report yet? I'd recommend doing that today. Then take the police report, go to city hall, and file your small claims.
Quoted from Blacksun:There will be no winners in this. Just meet in the middle at $2750 and call it a day...
I would've agreed with this on the first page or two. But after seeing Nifty's responses? No. Hell, even the original $2550 is being generous given his attitude and the fact it took 2-3 years to complete the work.
Quoted from NiftyLED:Youre not at all trying to resolve this.
Youre being a brick and not moving an inch..
Ive given you a yard and you want more...
You havent disputed ever throughout this thread that you authorized every last piece of work on this game...
You're right - he hasn't disputed that he said he'd pay $2550 for all of the work you did. Yet you're dragging it on for $450. Which I believe your business could even write off as a loss, no?
Quoted from jar155:Having dealt with small claims, I don't think this will go how you think. Besides, you'll have to sit with an arbitrator before going to see the judge anyway. The two of you can dig your heels in there, go see a judge (who is just a small timer trying to get hours in behind the gavel), and have him get upset at both of you and come up with a "split the middle" judgment that neither of you will like. You're not that far off right now, just keep working it out. Or the judge could just be a grump and just award everything to Nifty. The best scenario for you is that he'll award Nifty all hard costs. I wouldn't risk that. Find a common ground agreement here.
Why do you say it would go to an arbitrator? Is that a California thing? In my situation (not the same, as mine was rental law, but whatever), I went directly to court and won the judgement. (of course, the landlord literally said at one point, "I raised my right hand and promised to tell the truth, isn't that good enough?" The judge was not amused... ).
Quoted from NiftyLED:Experience, no.. reading, yes
http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/small_claims/basic_info.shtml
"Before filing a case in small claims court, it’s important to decide whether going to small claims court is the best way to resolve your dispute. Many disputes can be resolved by using other dispute resolution methods, such as mediation. Many counties help resolve disputes informally through their local consumer affairs offices, or through local public or private dispute resolution or mediation programs."
That doesn't say you have to go to mediation, it just says it's an option...
Quoted from jar155:No, I'm saying neither one of them is going to like it. I've been through small claims before. It's not like normal court. It's seriously a Judge Judy scenario. That's what Judge Judy is, a small-claims court. She combines the mediation and the court into one though. If you have any attitude, if your story comes across a little iffy, or if you can't CLEARLY prove your case 100%, it's likely to go south. Small claims judges generally won't waste a lot of time in back and forth bickering where there aren't specific contracts involved. They'll just make a quick ruling and end the sideshow.
Right, which is why I think the OP is probably in the clear here, although he'd have to research what California lets him claim for extra damages (in Minnesota, I found that I was allowed to sue for twice the security deposit plus $200 because landlord illegally withheld it). He has lots of texts he can print out. He can also print out this thread and highlight the important pieces. And if Nifty is as much of a jerk in court as he is here (my landlord was...), it's a slam dunk.
You're right that the judge will want to make both sides "happy" and "mad" at the same time, but this really feels like an open and shut case to me based on what we've seen.
Quoted from NiftyLED:You've got my number, text or call when youve got 3k in your hand and we can meet up. I came down $1200, you can come up $500.
I'm fine with letting a judge decide this if thats the route you want to go.
You should've initially asked for $10k -- then you could've said "I came down $7k, you can come up $1k."
Quoted from NiftyLED:What exact damages does OP have? has he lost any money? has he lost his machine? no, he can have the machine if he pays for the repairs done to it. Its the same thing if you take your car to a mechanic.
I already answered this earlier. The damages are time from you not sticking to the agreement. In Minnesota (I can't speak to California), a landlord not returning your security deposit means the tenant can sue for twice the deposit plus a $200 penalty. So in my case, my landlord didn't want to give me my $500 security deposit back -- and I was able to sue him for $1200.
This is pretty similar in concept. You have his machine and you aren't giving it back for the agreed upon price. You're holding him hostage. There will be penalties for his damages.
Quoted from Sticky:I'd show everyone here my invoice if I ever received one.
Asking more money than agreed to is extortion.
Also please show all your payment requests. Show where you said you would put the pin up for sale.
You know what? Offer off the table. Let's do it the hard way.
Good luck. Doesn't seem like you'll need it though.
Quoted from BrewNinja:Anyone able to pass a popcorn refill? I dont want to get up and leave this post. Id come back to 50 new messages...
Here ya go https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/popcorn-machine-who-has-one/page/25#post-4121811
Quoted from jar155:the judge points out that individual texts can be deleted,
True -- which is where Nifty could bring his text messages. But if he doesn't have any...... That backs up Sticky even more. Daniel's going to have a hard time showing the $4200. And then there's the matter of Nifty trying to sell the machine, which will piss the judge off. I think Sticky wins in a landslide, but I don't know what the penalty would be since it's different for different states.
Quoted from jar155:The problem is that logic is out the window in small claims. You think it would determine everything, but it's a crap shoot unless EVERYTHING is airtight proven. I wouldn't go small claims to decide anything that I could reasonably decide out of court. You get burned on a judgment and you have no recourse left. Small claims should be the last option, because it's so unreliable.
I can only speak from my experience, but Nifty seems a lot like my ex-landlord, and he was literally laughed out of court. Seriously, the other people waiting for their case to be tried were laughing at him half the trial.
Quoted from jar155:You'll both need to take time off work to resolve it. Have fun! Small claims sucks.
I must be the only one who thought it was kinda fun going to small claims court....
Quoted from Sticky:I hear you and it's reasonable but he is demanding $3k and I won't give him that.
I wanted the amount we agreed to but said in the spirit of resolution I would go to $2650 to show I'm not inflexible and for the good of the community.
He responds to that with a letter 'demanding' I pay $4200 or he will do whatever he wants. At least this time he's telling me before he'll try to sell my machine.
Now should I really give him money for that?
The letter seriously says you have to pay $4200, after he's already said $3k here? That's gold right there. No judge is going to take his side.
Quoted from woody76:sick bastard. LOL
That's literally what a coworker of mine told me just yesterday. And then I told him the whole story of what happened and he laughed and said I was still a sick bastard, but in this case, he understood why I thought it was fun. LOL
Quoted from NiftyLED:One guy, ONE GUY.
You have my number, please make arrangements that way...
Oh, you're going to load the machine for him? And take the loss if you accidentally drop it? Otherwise I think he'll need at least two. Maybe 3.
Quoted from tslayer71:Or better advice would be never borrow money to a family member, that you can't afford to lose
Yes, this. (although lend, not borrow ).
Quoted from Atari_Daze:Yea, I read CASH not Paypal... I hope that does not ad another wrinkle???
If he's a legit business, he should not be requiring cash IMHO. That just sounds even shadier. (as someone mentioned earlier, he probably wasn't going to pay business taxes, but... he should be).
Quoted from DanTheGlassMan:Read this entire thread. Took a long time. Wasnt "entertained" like some of you but was genuinely concerned for sticky and his situation with nifty. Them making it right is a nice refreshing finish to this entire drama. That being said, sticky i assume did have pics of the finished game and was pleased to pay his original agreed 2550. If i were you sticky i would pay them what youve consistenty said you were okay paying them. If they absolutely refuse your payment dont donate to a pinball project thing. Its christmas. Donate to needy families. Sick children. Or veterans. THAT would be the REAL happy ending to this thread ive been rooting for.
Umm, did you know that Project Pinball puts pinball machines in children's hospitals so that they can have a few minutes of fun in between their treatments? So that helps families and children and is a good Christmas thing. http://projectpinball.org/
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