(Topic ID: 205640)

The Nifty Playboy Bulldog Incident


By Sticky

1 year ago



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  • 220 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Who-Dey
  • Topic is favorited by 36 Pinsiders

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#301 1 year ago
Quoted from davebart5:

For me, I think Nifty either...
A) wanted to keep the game after seeing it turn out so beautifully based on marketing responses on their social media pages
B) wanted to keep the game from the client and resell it for a major profit, especially since Hefner died since he took the machine and that could inflate the value
C) thought based on the OP’s money that jacking the price up was fine and he’d make extra cash in the end since the client could afford it
Either way, I smell greed. It’s the holidays man... do the right thing and agree to the price of materials used here and make it right. It took two years and you failed over and over again at hitting your deadline.
The community is watching...

You are reading way too much into this Columbo.

It's just a dispute based on miscommunication and bulldog envy. It's really not that complicated.

I honestly feel like a Hannuka miracle is forthcoming and these dudes are not too far away from working this one out.

#302 1 year ago
Quoted from NiftyLED:

Heres a list of parts used
stencil kit
chrome leg bolts
purple gels
Alltek lamp board
Alltek MPU board
Alltek Solenoid board
lane guides
coil
playfield red posts
flipper & shaft
chrome lift trim
cabinet buttons and housings
leg bolt plate
plastic set
LED displays
pop bumper cap set
pop bumper body
led kit
rubber kit
coin door price plates
coin door sticker
pop bumper skirt
and the list of services performed - excluding my labor - how many hours do you think it would take to get this game to where it is?
Cabinet repair, sand, basecoat
playfield touchup
chrome/polishing of metal parts

None of that matters if you didn’t tell him it was going to cost x amount now and he agreed. If you failed to get his approval to do additional work, why should the judge by believe him when he says all of that was included in the original restoration fee of 1850? If you truly don’t think you’ve made a mistake at all in this matter, you are an awful businessman and I wish you good luck in this and all future endeavors (because you won’t have my business)

#303 1 year ago

nifty please answer the tough questions about the naked dude on your facebook page

that may settle some issues

31
#304 1 year ago
Quoted from NiftyLED:

Sorry, it was 100% the other way around...

Domain registration dates say otherwise.

Domain:orangecountypinballs.com
Registrar:Tucows Domains Inc.
Registration Date:2012-04-16
Expiration Date:2018-04-16
Updated Date:2017-03-18

Domain:orangecountypinball.com
Registrar:Tucows Domains Inc.
Registration Date:2014-02-25
Expiration Date:2018-02-25
Updated Date:2017-02-12

#305 1 year ago
Quoted from surfsidedetail:

Wow I was woke up this morning with multiple messages from customers who saw this thread. Thanks for the heads up
We are OrangeCountyPinballs.com out of Fullerton, CA and have a brick & mortar store.
Daniel Buenrostro is no way associated with us.
We have dealt with Sticky and he is a stand-up guy who bought a Champion Pub from us years ago.
Please do not confuse us with this big cluster.

Thanks man.

I'll tell you this much, I'm going to you for all future restoration work and LED's.

I'm not sure if you remember us actually talking about me going to this ocpinballrepair guy to get my Playboy restored when I picked up the Champion Pub.

#306 1 year ago
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
13
#307 1 year ago
Quoted from NiftyLED:

Sorry, it was 100% the other way around as far as i know.
I didnt even know about Evan

Here's proof we registered domain prior to Daniel.

IMG_4884 (resized).PNG

IMG_4885 (resized).PNG

24
#308 1 year ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Thanks. First thing to note. You contracted others to some work. That is stuff you needed to communicate right up front as the cost is easy to estimate.
All of the above gets me to about 2600 bucks. That’s basically what the op is willing to pay. You’re Labor needs to be severely discounted due to it taking FOREVER. So I say 3k and this goes away. But I say stick to 2500 due to trying to sell this dudes game. That was lame as hell.

One would think common sense would prevail but clearly Nifty is intent on destroying his business for a few bucks.

After reading some of his responses, he clearly has no idea either.

17
#309 1 year ago
Quoted from Dr-Willy:

Domain registration dates say otherwise.
Domain:orangecountypinballs.com
Registrar:Tucows Domains Inc.
Registration Date:2012-04-16
Expiration Date:2018-04-16
Updated Date:2017-03-18
Domain:orangecountypinball.com
Registrar:Tucows Domains Inc.
Registration Date:2014-02-25
Expiration Date:2018-02-25
Updated Date:2017-02-12

I also verified on archive.org, and you can see orangecountypinballs.com has been around a lot longer.

Caught in yet another lie.

#310 1 year ago

911's are a dime a dozen car. Now if you want to impress check out my car that was even published in a book.

IMG_0828 (resized).JPG

IMG_0830 (resized).JPG

IMG_0829 (resized).JPG

#311 1 year ago

Can we all just agree that there is nothing cool about stealing pinball machines, or Porsches, or bulldogs, and at 70" you would have been better off with a projector.

Sounds like Nifty just did a really poor job about communicating what was included and never discussed prices of things that were being added. That sucks if the OP said add it but at the same time Nifty should have sent a new invoice with an updated total to be signed before any work was done or parts were ordered. That's how business works, not by vague texts messages that lead to miscommunication.

#312 1 year ago
Quoted from Buzz:

911's are a dime a dozen car. Now if you want to impress check out my car that was even published in a book.

I don't disagree. The 911 I picked up because it is turbocharged so for performance reasons and to develop parts.

I'm a big fan of the C1. Even have a model sitting on my shelf.

#313 1 year ago
Quoted from Dr-Willy:

Domain registration dates say otherwise.
Domain:orangecountypinballs.com
Registrar:Tucows Domains Inc.
Registration Date:2012-04-16
Expiration Date:2018-04-16
Updated Date:2017-03-18
Domain:orangecountypinball.com
Registrar:Tucows Domains Inc.
Registration Date:2014-02-25
Expiration Date:2018-02-25
Updated Date:2017-02-12

03a98f371c491f346cce1014941d4094--andy-dwyer-gag-funny (resized).jpg

11
#314 1 year ago
Quoted from NiftyLED:

Sorry, it was 100% the other way around as far as i know.
I didnt even know about Evan

well sadly you're lying. he registered his website 2 years prior to you EVER registering your website.
https://www.whois.com/whois/orangecountypinballs.com

but good try.. go work on that Playboy machine some more!

#315 1 year ago
Quoted from jgentry:

Can we all just agree that there is nothing cool about steeling pinball machines, or Porsches, or bulldogs, and at 70" you would have been better off with a projector.
Sounds like Nifty just did a really poor job about communicating what was included and never discussed prices of things that were being added. That sucks if the OP said add it but at the same time Nifty should have sent a new invoice with an updated total to be signed before any work was done or parts were ordered. That's how business works, not by vague texts messages that lead to miscommunication.

I disagree about the projector as since I've been doing 4k gaming on it I just don't think a projector would offer the same image quality in all light levels or do as well with the image speed.

Anyway, obviously communication was poor on his end but that doesn't excuse stealing my machine. He didn't even say anything. He didn't even try to come to terms.

It was more like, 'He won't give me $4200? Screw it I'll sell it and get even more. Who will stop me?'

He can't produce anything saying he intends to a do a 'lien' or whatever else he claims. He literally was caught red handed and instead of stepping up to do the right thing taunts me to go the police. What a shame.

He STILL had a chance here and opted instead to be a coward.

35
#316 1 year ago

so can we all learn the really important lesson from all of this? when you register a domain name that uses a plural and the singular is available - spend the $10 a year to own the singular as well so some dickhead doesn't use it and confuse your customers (often applies when you buy the singular and plural is available as well, but typically less of a concern)

#317 1 year ago
Quoted from resipsa:

so can we all learn the really important lesson from all of this? when you register a domain name that uses a plural and the singular is available - spend the $10 a year to own the singular as well so some dickhead doesn't use it and confuse your customers (often applies when you buy the singular and plural is available as well, but typically less of a concern)

that and get the .net .org and .us versions also

#318 1 year ago
Quoted from Sticky:

I disagree about the projector as since I've been doing 4k gaming on it I just don't think a projector would offer the same image quality in all light levels or do as well with the image speed.
Anyway, obviously communication was poor that doesn't excuse stealing my machine. He didn't even say anything. He didn't even try to come to terms.
It was more like, 'He won't give me $4200? Screw it I'll sell it and get even more.'
He can't produce anything saying he intends to a do a 'lien' or whatever else. He literally as caught red handed and instead of stepping up to do the right thing taunts me to go the police. What a shame.

So, were at a stalemate here... what do we do? You wont discuss over text message "do whatever you want but do it while texting someone else"

Im in this machine for X - your budget is Y - what is the Z here?

#319 1 year ago
Quoted from NiftyLED:

So, were at a stalemate here... what do we do? You wont discuss over text message "do whatever you want but do it while texting someone else"
Im in this machine for X - your budget is Y - what is the Z here?

Progress.........

26
#320 1 year ago
Quoted from NiftyLED:

So, were at a stalemate here... what do we do? You wont discuss over text message "do whatever you want but do it while texting someone else"
Im in this machine for X - your budget is Y - what is the Z here?

Yeah, I'm really hard to reach, eh?

The Z is not sell my property illegally, I can tell you that. I don't want you doing any equations.

The offer is $2550 after trying to steal my machine and I suggest you take it.

-70
#321 1 year ago
Quoted from Sticky:

Yeah, I'm really hard to reach, eh?
The Z is not sell my property illegally, I can tell you that. I don't want you doing any equations.
The offer is $2550 after trying to steal my machine and I suggest you take it.

$3000 and ill be done with this mess... thats my final offer, needs to be paid in CASH.

Your $2550 doesnt even cover what im in it on parts/sub work

#323 1 year ago
Quoted from Sticky:

Thanks man.
I'll tell you this much, I'm going to you for all future restoration work and LED's.
I'm not sure if you remember us actually talking about me going to this ocpinballrepair guy to get my Playboy restored when I picked up the Champion Pub.

Bought several pins from Evan without a glitch. His showroom kicks ass.. and he just converted my MB to LED. Looks awesome.

#324 1 year ago

Take it you were 1,500 different, and now only 50.

#325 1 year ago
Quoted from NiftyLED:

Heres a list of parts used
stencil kit $150
chrome leg bolts $5
purple gels
Alltek lamp board $120
Alltek MPU board $200
Alltek Solenoid board $150
lane guides $1.50 each
coil $15
playfield red posts $1 each
flipper & shaft $5
chrome lift trim
cabinet buttons and housings $4
leg bolt plate $10 each
plastic set $160
LED displays $250
pop bumper cap set $20
pop bumper body $7
led kit $200 (according to your website)
rubber kit $15
coin door price plates
coin door sticker
pop bumper skirt $3
and the list of services performed - excluding my labor - how many hours do you think it would take to get this game to where it is?
Cabinet repair, sand, basecoat
playfield touchup
chrome/polishing of metal parts

So for the things I have prices listed for, that's roughly $1360 in parts, without any kind of discount and some of the prices are high, but figured I would go to the high end vs low. Being you are a business, I would also assume you get a discount on those.

#326 1 year ago
Quoted from NiftyLED:

$3000 and ill be done with this mess... thats my final offer, needs to be paid in CASH.
Your $2550 doesnt even cover what im in it on parts/sub work

Read over my texts that you said I wasn't 'responding' to.

I believe one says 'I said the amount we agreed to. Not a penny more' and a not a penny more it shall be.

If you need me to post it, let me know.

22
#327 1 year ago

I can't believe I'm even posting here, but...*sigh*...here goes.

First of all, I don't know the details of this deal, but as with most disputes there's likely fault on each side here. I'd agree with this sentiment...

Quoted from WackyBrakke:

This thread proves exactly why you should have everything in writing, on one piece of paper, with details and price and signatures. Any changes should be documented and signed. It's called a contract. Loosey goosey texts and/or verbal agreements frequently end in disputes.

...and unfortunately it sounds like there wasn't one.

However, I'd like to add a bit of nuance to the picture that's being painted (even as I type this almost 80 new posts have been made).

For those I haven't met, my name is Ryan Claytor, I'm an artist and I've worked with Nifty on a number of work-for-hire projects and I can tell you that my experience with them has always been a positive one. Nifty/Daniel has been easy to work with, paid me what I asked, and paid me on time (if not early, actually). On top of that, Daniel did me a HUGE solid of providing an immaculately-restored pinball machine for my dad's 80th birthday party this past summer:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/nifty-led-is-saintly

80th (resized).jpg

...complete with delivery and pick-up, to an outside location, for a very reasonable price. And if you have the patience to poke through that thread you'll even find posts like this:

NiftyNate (resized).jpg

...peppered throughout.

All this is not in an effort to take sides, but in a (likely futile) attempt to quell some of the negative and unhelpful comments like...

Quoted from Whysnow:

take 10 buddies and show up to get the game.

Quoted from Whysnow:

Let him call the cops when he sees he is going to get his ass pummled if he does not deal with it.

Quoted from Whysnow:

can someone please bring this to the attention of CGC and PPS so they know the LED supplier they are supporting.

...and many others besides Hilton (just noticed those were all from him).

I can't help but think with some mediation (not in the form of a public internet forum) that an agreement could be reached.

To the OP,

Quoted from Sticky:

I'm very reasonable. I think that shows in my patience

...true. It looks like you waited a long time to nab this beauty, but...

Quoted from Sticky:

I hired him for other work

...it also sounds like you've dealt with Daniel before and must have had good experiences or you wouldn't have entrusted him with your game. And evidently...

Quoted from BillySastard:

Their LED's are used in all the CGC/PPS remakes.

Quoted from chuckwurt:

Haven’t heard anything bad about them until this point.

...you're not the only one.

Over the course of this dispute, it sounds like each party made some poor decisions to "get the attention" of the other (Daniel posting the game for sale, and you posting this thread to publicly shame Daniel). I think it's safe to say that you each have the others' attention now. I'd also say it's safe to say that you're each heated enough where there will need to be some mediation to arrive at an agreement.

In closing, here's hoping we can stop the binary, black and white, demonizing and name-calling that is so typically easy and popular in this medium.

Here's hoping a civil agreement can be reached...without additional public smears on either side.

10
#328 1 year ago
Quoted from NiftyLED:

$3000 and ill be done with this mess... thats my final offer, needs to be paid in CASH.
Your $2550 doesnt even cover what im in it on parts/sub work

dont be so stupid!!!!!!!!!

Take the mans $2550 or watch your business crumble. This is not a matter of principle for you anymore, this is a matter of business.

It is VERY clear that you attempted to steal the guys machine and sell it. You screwed up and all the evidence made it clear.

Take your lumps, learn to communicate better "If you want chrome added it will cost X, bringing the total to Y now. Agreed?", learn to quote out work better, and do the right thing and take the $2550 and feel fortunate 10 guys are not showing up to your house on xmas eve to take the game.

#329 1 year ago
Quoted from NiftyLED:

$3000 and ill be done with this mess... thats my final offer, needs to be paid in CASH.
Your $2550 doesnt even cover what im in it on parts/sub work

Sounds good, OP drive on over there in your Lamborg SUV and call it a day.

Quoted from Whysnow:

dont be so stupid!!!!!!!!!
Take the mans $2550 or watch your business crumble. This is not a matter of principle for you anymore, this is a matter of business.
.

It's pinball, not Wal Mart. Everybody who has been around pinball for a while knows virtually ever dispute like this has some gray area. Let these guys work it out. And why are you so obsessed with the "10 thugs coming to beat the guy up and take the game" gambit? We all know - fortunately - this is NEVER how these disputes are settled around here.

#330 1 year ago
Quoted from BrewNinja:

So for the things I have prices listed for, that's roughly $1360 in parts, without any kind of discount and some of the prices are high, but figured I would go to the high end vs low. Being you are a business, I would also assume you get a discount on those.

Youre not including any sub work and no, i pay retail for all of my parts and had to get some unobtanium parts from England too..

#331 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

dont be so stupid!!!!!!!!!
Take the mans $2550 or watch your business crumble. This is not a matter of principle for you anymore, this is a matter of business.
It is VERY clear that you attempted to steal the guys machine and sell it. You screwed up and all the evidence made it clear.
Take your lumps, learn to communicate better "If you want chrome added it will cost X, bringing the total to Y now. Agreed?", learn to quote out work better, and do the right thing and take the $2550 and feel fortunate 10 guys are not showing up to your house on xmas eve to take the game.

This is not about the money right now and I think everyone sees that.

This is principle.

I made the same offer I always made which is what we agreed to. No more, no less.

#332 1 year ago
Quoted from NiftyLED:

Youre not including any sub work and no, i pay retail for all of my parts and had to get some unobtanium parts from England too..

Again. None of this matters unless it’s been communicated to the customer and prices are negotiated and agreed upon.

Hopefully next time you do a restoration you do a better job of communicating the costs THROUGHOUT the project and get each additional cost over the original budget communicated and approved.

#333 1 year ago
Quoted from NiftyLED:

Youre not including any sub work and no, i pay retail for all of my parts and had to get some unobtanium parts from England too..

You are correct, I said I didnt include anything besides what I listed prices for. I was just pointing out what high retail was for the parts you listed was. That doesnt include cabinet work, playfield touch up or chroming which is hard to say what prices would be without seeing the beginning pieces.

#334 1 year ago
Quoted from NiftyLED:

Youre not including any sub work and no, i pay retail for all of my parts and had to get some unobtanium parts from England too..

You have also had his game for THREE YEARS!! You should give his game back and you pay him 3 thousand for his inconvenience that you have caused him.

30
#335 1 year ago
Quoted from RyanClaytor:

Here's hoping a civil agreement can be reached...without additional public smears on either side.

civilty went out the door when your buddy stole the guys machine and put it up for sale. He screwed up, BIG TIME!

I am pissed for the OP.

Miscommunication happens.
Prices go up and things can take longer.
People can be mad at the changes and poor communication.

You simple DONT try to sell someones game and break the law in doing so and then request civilty.

20
#336 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

civilty went out the door when your buddy stole the guys machine and put it up for sale. He screwed up, BIG TIME!
I am pissed for the OP.
Miscommunication happens.
Prices go up and things can take longer.
People can be mad at the changes and poor communication.
You simple DONT try to sell someones game and break the law in doing so and then request civilty.

Exactly why I will not pay $3000.

This isn't a hostage negotiation.

#337 1 year ago

Everybody set aside the egos and just let the numbers and logic talk for a bit. Get everybody made whole. There will be some hurt feelings, but as long as nobody is out any money, call it the emotional price for learning a lesson about communication and documentation. We spend more time on this sort of thing in this hobby these days than we do actually talking about playing pinball.

Also, don't chrome up classics.

#338 1 year ago

Wow, add this thread to a business 101 class to teach the importance of contracts, communication, customer service, image and public relations.........

15
#339 1 year ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

You have also had his game for THREE YEARS!! You should give his game back and you pay him 3 thousand for his inconvenience that you have caused him.

I don't get why you guys are so intent on stirring the pot here. We've seen dudes WAY more pissed off at each other than these guys settle their differences and come to arrangement. But every post like this reinforces the idea that if Sticky agrees to a cent over the $1825 or whatever, he's nothing more than a Kia-driving pussy.

The guy has a PORSCHE goddammit. He's a successful, virile go-getter who can think for himself!

I just want to see a happy ending here.

#340 1 year ago

Now it becomes a pissing contest and nobody wins. $50 more and this is done seems very reasonable to me. You were willing to pay 2,550 with no problem.

#341 1 year ago
Quoted from jar155:

Everybody set aside the egos and just let the numbers and logic talk for a bit. Get everybody made whole. There will be some hurt feelings, but as long as nobody is out any money, call it the emotional price for learning a lesson about communication and documentation. We spend more time on this sort of thing in this hobby these days than we do actually talking about playing pinball.
Also, don't chrome up classics.

Shouldn't you apologize for all the false assertions you made about me pages back?

#342 1 year ago
Quoted from jar155:

Everybody set aside the egos and just let the numbers and logic talk for a bit. Get everybody made whole. There will be some hurt feelings, but as long as nobody is out any money, call it the emotional price for learning a lesson about communication and documentation. We spend more time on this sort of thing in this hobby these days than we do actually talking about playing pinball.
Also, don't chrome up classics.

Also, don’t keep a guys game for three years. That’s ridiculous!

#343 1 year ago
Quoted from NiftyLED:

Youre not including any sub work and no, i pay retail for all of my parts and had to get some unobtanium parts from England too..

Regardless of what happened or what you actually did to this guys machine work was not agreed to and you are wrong trying to charge him for work you did because you wanted to do it. In business you make a deal - and keep that deal. You went beyond what you agreed to do - I get that - but you agreed to do a machine in a time period for a price and you didn't do that. BAD BUSINESS!

I think what happened here is you honestly felt bad keeping the machine so long and decided to do a "better job" to make up for that. But once you got the machine finished you realized you were into it for WAY more money than you expected. At that point you decided to try to "cut you loses by upping the price hoping owner would agree to the new number.

Not just giving the guy back his machine for agree price is going to ruin you. Just accept you messed up and move on.

#344 1 year ago

Just go in the middle at 2750 and call it a day. Both sides bring a side mate to the pickup place where the sidekicks exchange the goods. Live and learn and move on. OP you are out an extra 200 which is better than wasting time with legal avenues....nifty is close to the original quote that we know about and can live to fight another day.

#345 1 year ago

I went from being hurt and furious to somehow feeling at peace.

Really, it is a great group of people here.

Thank you gentlemen.

I'm ready to resolve this and am just waiting to see if he will do the right thing instead of trying to squeeze out another dollar or two.

23
#346 1 year ago

How many restoration jobs did nifty lose because of this?....how many times is Evan going to have to explain to people that the story they heard was not about him?

#347 1 year ago

Ive offered to settle this for 3k to be done with it, im eating all of my time and labor here -

All of this noise from everyone saying I need to make this right - this is my "make it right"

OP 100% AGREED TO ALL OF THE WORK ON THIS MACHINE.... hes not debating any of that - he approved the chrome, the led displays, the leds, ive got most of the approvals in my text messages..

Everything else is just noise... lets be done with this..

#348 1 year ago
Quoted from Sticky:

Shouldn't you apologize for all the false assertions you made about me pages back?

I am actually on your side, but I think at this point apologies are out the door. Lets get this thing resolved.

Meet in the middle, Nifty wants $3000 and you want to pay $2550. $2775 cash and call it a day.

19
#349 1 year ago
Quoted from NiftyLED:

Ive offered to settle this for 3k to be done with it, im eating all of my time and labor here -
All of this noise from everyone saying I need to make this right - this is my "make it right"
OP 100% AGREED TO ALL OF THE WORK ON THIS MACHINE.... hes not debating any of that - he approved the chrome, the led displays, the leds, ive got most of the approvals in my text messages..
Everything else is just noise... lets be done with this..

If you didn't try to steal my machine and you didn't blatantly lie I would have gladly paid $3k just because I like the machine.

If you want to show contrition and show you are capable of behaving like a human being with some morals I suggest you honor the original agreement and be done with this.

I'm not going to cave. I'm not going to pay you more money for trying to cheat me. I am going to pay what I said I would.

#350 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

And why are you so obsessed with the "10 thugs coming to beat the guy up and take the game" gambit? We all know - fortunately - this is NEVER how these disputes are settled around here.

lol

bring the right guys and it never comes to violence. They are the insurance policy for that.
I have learned and witnessed this many times in real life. Bringing the right guys is usually all it takes to get things solved amicably when someone is starting a hostage negotiation

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