(Topic ID: 205640)

The Nifty Playboy Bulldog Incident


By Sticky

1 year ago



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  • 1,375 posts
  • 220 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Who-Dey
  • Topic is favorited by 36 Pinsiders

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#1151 1 year ago

glad it’s resolved but not having leg levelers ($0.50 item) on a restored machine ????

#1152 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

How bout "Where's the fn leg levelors?!"

But did it come with Coin Mechs? LOL

#1153 1 year ago

Manual?

#1154 1 year ago
Quoted from Sticky:

What should the thread title be edited to gentlemen? Since it's not stolen just call it what? The Playboy Panic of 2017?

Hey Nifty, you can't sell that!

#1155 1 year ago
Quoted from Sticky:

What should the thread title be edited to gentlemen? Since it's not stolen just call it what? The Playboy Panic of 2017?

“The Bulldog incident”?

#1156 1 year ago
Quoted from Jtm3:

“The Bulldog incident”?

You got a good chuckle out of me.

I'm going to take a break from the thread for a bit but if anyone has a good suggestion please share so we can begin to undo the damage.

Is it too early for a glass of cognac?

#1157 1 year ago
Quoted from Sticky:

What should the thread title be edited to gentlemen? Since it's not stolen just call it what? The Playboy Panic of 2017?

Contact ForceFlow and see what he suggests. He has helped me a good bit (in the past) here on Pinside and seems to have a good handle on how to word things in a good way.

Even thought issue was resolved I really don't think OC should be off the hook completely.

As far as the money end of things I would send them payment you originally agreed on and that way EVERYONE was treated fairly. Donating money somewhere else doesn't help them offset the cost of doing your machine. I think they needed to be "spanked" but I don't feel they should have to eat everything they did either.

Just my 2 cents on things!

#1158 1 year ago
Quoted from Sticky:

You got a good chuckle out of me.
I'm going to take a break from the thread for a bit but if anyone has a good suggestion please share so we can begin to undo the damage.
Is it too early for a glass cognac?

Not in 8 minutes......it'll be 5:00PM here

#1159 1 year ago

How about something nice like NiftyLED dispute resolved, Nifty does the right thing!

#1160 1 year ago
Quoted from Sticky:

You got a good chuckle out of me.
I'm going to take a break from the thread for a bit but if anyone has a good suggestion please share so we can begin to undo the damage.
Is it too early for a glass cognac?

How about "I need ten guys to help me get my pin back",

#1161 1 year ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

How about something nice like NiftyLED dispute resolved, Nifty does the right thing!

What about niftyled's website name? Has everyone forgotten about that little matter?

19
#1162 1 year ago

Some of you are wondering why Nifty has seemed so bi-polar in all of this so let me explain (Not DEFENDING, just EXPLAINING). NiftyLED is two people, Nate and Daniel. They are very different people who have been friends for a long time. Anyone who has run a business with a partner knows how things do not always go super smooth. That is the case here. Nate was completely unaware of what was going on with Joseph and Daniel until this thread had already grown to 12 or more pages. This is made clear when Joseph said that he doesn't even know who Nate is and had never even dealt with him.

Nate is the type of guy who takes responsibility for his actions and the actions of his company. This is why he has not singled Daniel out and thrown him under the bus even though he pretty much deserves to be under that bus. Nate flipped out when he saw what was going on and I have no doubt he and Daniel will have (are having) a serious conversation about how things went down here.

Buzz's update post should have made it clear how different these two guys are. If you think that Nate is simply putting on an act and is doing this only to salvage his business then you clearly do not know Nate.

Let's try to remember Hanlon's razor here: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"

#1163 1 year ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I know the Nifty boys, more Nate than Daniel, just in the interest of disclosure. I'm not defending anything, clearly they screwed up badly on this one.
My suggestion, whatever it's worth, is that if they're taking the step of giving you the machine for free, obviously as payment towards trying to salvage the hit to their reputation, and you're accepting it, that it might be nice to edit the title of this thread and the opening post with things being resolved in return.
The record of what happened will remain, but very few people are really going to read 23 pages of crazy town to see the resolution.
Up to you, just what I would do after they made a pretty legit gesture of trying to make things right.

When Nifty gets rid of the guy who listed the machine for sale, I would consider working with them.

#1164 1 year ago
Quoted from provato:

What about niftyled's website name? Has everyone forgotten about that little matter?

I agree, they need to fix that as well.

#1165 1 year ago

No loss of momentum with posts...will this hit the Judge Dredd 1400 mark????

#1166 1 year ago

Can we get a reality TV style camera crew to be on the scene when these two parties meet up and the machine is given back? That would generate some big YouTube views!!!!

#1167 1 year ago
Quoted from AdamPinball:

Some of you are wondering why Nifty has seemed so bi-polar in all of this so let me explain (Not DEFENDING, just EXPLAINING). NiftyLED is two people, Nate and Daniel. They are very different people who have been friends for a long time. Anyone who has run a business with a partner knows how things do not always go super smooth. That is the case here. Nate was completely unaware of what was going on with Joseph and Daniel until this thread had already grown to 12 or more pages. This is made clear when Joseph said that he doesn't even know who Nate is and had never even dealt with him.
Nate is the type of guy who takes responsibility for his actions and the actions of his company. This is why he has not singled Daniel out and thrown him under the bus even though he pretty much deserves to be under that bus. Nate flipped out when he saw what was going on and I have no doubt he and Daniel will have (are having) a serious conversation about how things went down here.
Buzz's update post should have made it clear how different these two guys are. If you think that Nate is simply putting on an act and is doing this only to salvage his business then you clearly do not know Nate.
Let's try to remember Hanlon's razor here: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"

So are you telling me that Nate had no idea that Daniel had listed Josephs game for sale? I really have a hard time believing that just to be honest with you and if that's true then Nate is not paying attention to his business. Nate has to also share the blame for having his game for 3 years.

If I was Nate and I cared about this business then I would put a muzzle on Daniel and not let him respond to any customers if there is a dispute because he clearly doesn't know how to control himself and make rational decisions.

Also if I was Nate and cared about the business, I wouldn't take 2-3 years to fix a customers game. Nate is just as guilty as Daniel for the terrible customer service. Hopefully they can both learn from this and become a better business and more importantly better people.

P.S. oh yeah, and Nate knew about naming their company pretty much identical to another company's name in order to deceive and steal customers away from the other Orange County pinball company. Don't forget that!

#1168 1 year ago

The machine was already given back.

#1169 1 year ago
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:

No loss of momentum with posts...will this hit the Judge Dredd 1400 mark????

Easily

#1170 1 year ago

sticky glad you got the game returned and I think you owe us a pic of where she stands in the house all lit up and shiny. I have not given my unsolicited advice until now ... but I think you should pay Nifty the $2,800 per the original estimate and agreed to upgrades. You authorized them to do the work and they did it. Granted it took years, playfield wasn't touched up properly, they tried jacking you with a price hike and then extorting you. When that didn't work, they hatched a plan to steal and sell your machine out from under you. I get it, it hurts. Maybe this can all be chalked up to a huge lesson learned and you can move on. Write it down and try to sell the screenplay to make lemonade out of lemons. I can see how this got you worked up, I am pissed for you. Hopefully you still enjoy playing the game though, she's a beaut all right.

#1171 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

sticky glad you got the game returned and I think you owe us a pic of where she stands in the house all lit up and shiny. I have not given my unsolicited advice until now ... but I think you should pay Nifty the $2,800 per the estimate. You authorized them to do the work and they did it. Granted it took years, wasn't touched up correctly, they tried to extort you, they tried to take and sell your machine but that can be chalked up to huge lesson learned and you can move on. I can see how you got worked up.

Don't forget though that the original quote was 1800, then 2200, then 2500, then 2800. I think that's how it went. Joseph need something for all the BS they caused him and Buzz should be given something as well for being such a stand up guy. Nifty deserves to be paid something as well.

10
#1172 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

How bout "Where's the fn leg levelors?!"

Leg levelers were NOT on the list.

#1173 1 year ago

I also think you should take the high road and pay the agreed amount. It looks like they did do a lot of work. The machine will never be "right" if you don't offer payment.

#1174 1 year ago

Very glad sticky got his machine. Even more glad nifty took a timeout and realized what was happening and made things right. Nifty should get paid what was agreed, take the high road. If they donate it, it’s their choice and even better. Buzz is awesome, I think the pin community should set up a go fund me or PayPal buzz a buck to help with expenses since he was stand up and going through a tough time. Should we forget what happened? No. But we can choose to forgive.

#1175 1 year ago

Anyone care to estimate what that Playboy is worth now after the restoration?

39
#1176 1 year ago
Quoted from stpcore:

Anyone care to estimate what that Playboy is worth now after the restoration?

This much:

CA778CDC-9F38-4433-A655-F0659AF7FC10 (resized).jpeg

#1177 1 year ago
Quoted from stpcore:

Anyone care to estimate what that Playboy is worth now after the restoration?

given the condition of the poor pf restore...
Maybe 2200 and that is pushing it.

Core game 1k, cab repaint, some new boards and displays, plus a REALLY bad pf touch up and that is where I would be. Granted I would personally pass as the pf is bad enough i would rather find a beater for 1k to fix up myself.

#1178 1 year ago
Quoted from Sticky:

Is it too early for a glass cognac?

Early? You are way behind. Christmas vacation started at noon.

Glad everything worked out.

#1179 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

given the condition of the poor pf restore...
Maybe 2200 and that is pushing it.
Core game 1k, cab repaint, some new boards and displays, plus a REALLY bad pf touch up and that is where I would be. Granted I would personally pass as the pf is bad enough i would rather find a beater for 1k to fix up myself.

Game is valued what someone is willing to pay for it, with that said all upgrades and repaint is worth the $2800 For sure + your $800
Valued now at $3600

#1180 1 year ago
Quoted from Dooskie:

I have to ask....how do you know what Kaneda's bedsheets smell like?

Quoted from Whysnow:

everyone knows what they smell like... Axe body spray and regret.

I always figured it was Axe Body Spray and those urine soaked panties you buy from vending machines in Japan.

#1181 1 year ago
Quoted from PinRob:

I think they are past that now

It was taking me awhile to get caught up.

#1182 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I always figured it was Axe Body Spray and those urine soaked panties you buy from vending machines in Japan.

oh good god. No. Really? What is wrong with people?

#1183 1 year ago

Jeeze, I had to leave to get groceries and booze for the holiday weeekend and come back to 238 new posts. Can’t keep up!

#1184 1 year ago

Just heard the good news. Well done nifty.

#1185 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I always figured it was Axe Body Spray and those urine soaked panties you buy from vending machines in Japan.

hahahah "USED"

#1187 1 year ago

Yeah, they put that part in English so the anime fans can be sure of what they are buying.

#1188 1 year ago
Quoted from myork82:

What they heck!! I've skimmed through this and we went from
A. Dude selling a game not his
B. Dude is like WTF that's my game
C. To get your game back its over double the original quote
D. No I'm not paying that price
E. We reach a lower price but I WANT MY MONEY IN CASH!!!!! GOT IT?!?!?!
F. To now oh sorry for the trouble. Come get your game at no charge.
Are you serious????? Sounds like somebody has been on the Eggnog a little to much!

Hell yeah! Eggnog!

#1189 1 year ago
Quoted from rvdv:

glad it’s resolved but not having leg levelers ($0.50 item) on a restored machine ????

That's where the other $1400 in the total cost emanated from.

I was previously a co-owner of a pinball company, and things like this do happen. There is always a difference of opinions with partners on how to run a business. Good resolution though.

#1190 1 year ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

I don't like the way this was handled initially by them and went down, particularly him listing your game for sale without attempting a reasonable and amicable resolution first. But as for their offer.... (assuming on their own, with no attorney guidance, CGC intervention, etc.)

I'd bet that the $100.00/day storage charge idea came from Mr. Personality himself......

#1191 1 year ago

I think fair price of the work would be the original agreed upon price of $1800 plus any parts that were not included in the original $1800 quote.

That's how I would resolve it if I was friends with both of them.

The repairer would eat the cost of his labor above the $1800 for being a dumb ass and exceeding the original quote, but he would get paid for the extra parts.

As far as the value of the game goes, what's the high end retail on a sort of restored Playboy? $3000 maybe?

The value of the thing is not the amount of money that went into a restoration, it's how much money a buyer will give you. As you already know.

-1
#1192 1 year ago
Quoted from rvdv:

Game is valued what someone is willing to pay for it, with that said all upgrades and repaint is worth the $2800 For sure + your $800
Valued now at $3600

Lol yeah no, imo thats a stupid saying. There is a median somewhere for what a machine is worth, and if 1 f***er is insane and pays an insane amount for a game that does not fall under "worth what someone want to pay for it".

#1193 1 year ago
Quoted from Edenecho:

Lol yeah no, imo thats a stupid saying. There is a median somewhere for what a machine is worth, and if 1 f***er is insane and pays an insane amount for a game that does not fall under "worth what someone want to pay for it".

I agree with you 100%.

I meant to say that the game is worth what the market will pay.

Anything common like a Playboy pinball is going to have enough sales data for you to generate a rough range of prices that it's currently changing hands at.

When you ask how much a 1965 Mustang or a 1978 telecaster or whatever is worth, some guy will always chime in with "It's worth what you are willing to pay." It's a dumb, pointless statement.

24
#1194 1 year ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

So are you telling me that Nate had no idea that Daniel had listed Josephs game for sale? I really have a hard time believing that just to be honest with you and if that's true then Nate is not paying attention to his business. Nate has to also share the blame for having his game for 3 years.
If I was Nate and I cared about this business then I would put a muzzle on Daniel and not let him respond to any customers if there is a dispute because he clearly doesn't know how to control himself and make rational decisions.
Also if I was Nate and cared about the business, I wouldn't take 2-3 years to fix a customers game. Nate is just as guilty as Daniel for the terrible customer service. Hopefully they can both learn from this and become a better business and more importantly better people.
P.S. oh yeah, and Nate knew about naming their company pretty much identical to another company's name in order to deceive and steal customers away from the other Orange County pinball company. Don't forget that!

Again Nate Ortega and Daniel Buenrostro we are all happy Joseph got back his machine but now we have another HUGE issue to resolve.

If you have been riding the coat tails of our success and intentionally deceiving customers looking for the legitimate Orange County Pinballs in Fullerton CA we will be taking action.

Evan Zelien
OrangeCountyPinballs.com
714-451-6308

#1195 1 year ago
Quoted from surfsidedetail:

Again Nate Ortega and Daniel Buenrostro we are all happy Joseph got back his machine but now we have another HUGE issue to resolve.

If you have been riding the coat tails of our success and intentionally deceiving customers looking for the legitimate Orange County Pinballs in Fullerton CA we will be taking action.

Evan Zelien
OrangeCountyPinballs.com
714-451-6308

Let's make this a different Thread....

#1196 1 year ago
Quoted from irobot:

I agree with you 100%.
I meant to say that the game is worth what the market will pay.
Anything common like a Playboy pinball is going to have enough sales data for you to generate a rough range of prices that it's currently changing hands at.
When you ask how much a 1965 Mustang or a 1978 telecaster or whatever is worth, some guy will always chime in with "It's worth what you are willing to pay." It's a dumb, pointless statement.

Let’s say there is only one for sale and you have multiple buyers then the one who is willing to pay the most gets it! Simple as that.
See any auction for a example.

#1197 1 year ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Let's make this a different Thread....

If the time comes

#1198 1 year ago

AAAND we're back.
Over to you Brick.
51X8gc+2YRL._SY300_ (resized).jpg

#1199 1 year ago
Quoted from irobot:

I think fair price of the work would be the original agreed upon price of $1800 plus any parts that were not included in the original $1800 quote.
That's how I would resolve it if I was friends with both of them.
The repairer would eat the cost of his labor above the $1800 for being a dumb ass and exceeding the original quote, but he would get paid for the extra parts.
As far as the value of the game goes, what's the high end retail on a sort of restored Playboy? $3000 maybe?
The value of the thing is not the amount of money that went into a restoration, it's how much money a buyer will give you. As you already know.

When a 6 month restoration turned into over two years, inflated prices, listing the game for sale and all the hassle of trying to get the game back I wouldn't pay a penny over what the parts cost. They can eat there labor. But yeah it was super nice of them just giving the game back and agree if it was me I would feel better reimbursing them for the parts but parts only.

#1200 1 year ago
Quoted from surfsidedetail:

If you have been riding the coat tails of our success and intentionally deceiving customers looking for the legitimate Orange County Pinballs in Fullerton CA we will be taking action.

I'm still looking for the legitimate orange groves around here.

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