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Bally, 1978This topic is closed.
this is crazy. Good move on Nifty to finally try to make things right. Best $3K they could ever spend in marketing.
I understand OP not feeling right taking the game without paying fair price for the work and parts, but I agree with earlier posters that a donation to Project Pinball is an excellent solution. They do great work helping kids that really deserve a little bit of fun in their lives.
Update: I would be happy with this pin the outside looks great and really pops. The playfield is not bad at all for an old pin and has some character. I would put this in my collection for sure. Nate was a great guy and very helpful he shrinked it up with a blanket and help load. Something went sideways along the way, but I have to say I liked the guy and he was a little late because he had to come from Lakewood and if you lived in CA you would know it's a Christmas miracle he got here. My impression is there are two sides and both parties are good people and people make mistakes some big some small and it's wrong not to forgive. I know I have made mistakes and if we were never forgiven I personally would be fucked. I hope both sides are able to forgive and all of us learn from this. Next update game will be at it's new home. I'm not asking someone to forget but to forgive emotions can get out of hand but hey we have probably been there.
Quoted from Sticky:I trust you to pick up the game surfsidedetail as you know what to look for but he just texted me if it isn't picked up by tomorrow I have to pay $100 storage fees per day...
Quite a guy.
He can't do that. Never agreed to in the original contract. He will get laughed right out of court on that one.
Quoted from Dooskie:He can't do that. Never agreed to in the original contract. He will get laughed right out of court on that one.
I think they are past that now
Quoted from Buzz:Update: I would be happy with this pin the outside looks great and really pops. The playfield is not bad at all for an old pin and has some character. I would put this in my collection for sure. Nate was a great guy and very helpful he shrinked it up with a blanket and help load. Something went sideways along the way, but I have to say I liked the guy and he was a little late because he had to come from Lakewood and if you lived in CA you would know it's a Christmas miracle he got here. My impression is there are two sides and both parties are good people and people make mistakes some big some small and it's wrong not to forgive. I know I have made mistakes and if we were never forgiven I personally would be fucked. I hope both sides are able to forgive and all of us learn from this. Next update game will be at it's new home. I'm not asking someone to forget but to forgive emotions can get out of hand but hey we have probably been there.
You’re a good soul. Thank you for having some holiday spirit and kindness left in you to help make this right.
Quoted from pintechev:You’re a good soul. Thank you for having some holiday spirit and kindness left in you to help make this right.
Can't be stated enough. Thank you Buzz for helping out and showing we can pull together as a community.
All your future beers with me are on me.
Just a thought. 2 extremely shady people, who try to con you out of over 2k, now suddenly have a change of heart and want no money? I call bullshit. Pay them the original 2550 agreed upon price to cover your ass so they can't claim in court you pulled an O.J., or didn't pay them . If they don't want to take payment good on them, but let it be their decision to make with the cash in hand to donate it. Cover your ass. Have a receipt. Let them donate.
Quoted from tommyp:Just a thought. 2 extremely shady people, who try to con you out of over 2k, now suddenly have a change of heart and want no money? I call bullshit. Pay them the original 2550 agreed upon price to cover your ass so they can't claim in court you pulled an O.J., or didn't pay them . If they don't want to take payment good on them, but let it be their decision to make with the cash in hand to donate it. Cover your ass. Have a receipt. Let them donate.
I'm not taking to them to court now or going to the police. It was close to that.
It was avoided and it took some time (more than it should have) but they ultimately did the right thing.
Will I ever get over seeing my pin for sale at 3 AM? If I got over my first girlfriend I can probably get over this.
It was a mess for sure and talk about an up and down ride of emotion but I just want to play the machine at this point.
I shoulda also stated yes it's good to forgive, but you'd be a fool to forget. I personally wouldn't do business with these two cons, but that's just me.
Quoted from smalltownguy2:This thread smells like Kaneda's bedsheets.
What a shitshow.
I have to ask....how do you know what Kaneda's bedsheets smell like?
Agreed...they did the right thing and got you your game back. But donot give them any leverage to do the wrong thing again. It's great you got the game back, but personally if it were me I'd take any and all leverage out of their hands with a payment and receipt for the original agreed amount. If they don't want the money, it's their call. Let em donate it...good on them.
Quoted from vdojaq:May I suggest someone else to do your play field touch up? Because if this is one of your good jobs, your touch up guy is Stevie Wonder
That's really a slam on Stevie, don't you think?
Quoted from tommyp:Agreed...they did the right thing and got you your game back. But donot give them any leverage to do the wrong thing again. It's great you got the game back, but personally if it were me I'd take any and all leverage out of their hands with a payment and receipt for the original agreed amount. If they don't want the money, it's their call. Let em donate it...good on them.
I don't think that would be possible considering all the documentation from texts, voicemails, emails, and this thread.
I think we're all glad it's over in a manner that did not result in a pinsider losing a pin from their collection.
Quoted from Sticky:Ok, this is the deal.
The reason Nate wanted to speak to me was this.
They are not going to charge me for the game. They want to make amends and make up for what transpired.
Shocked? I am. My jaw dropped.
They said there is a board that needs to be replaced and they will send that out to me when it comes in as well.
Essentially, they want to make this right.
So what do you guys say to that?
I would Pay them what you owe them !!
They see what they created and want some goodwill but for your own piece of mind
Pay them the $2805
Quoted from Buzz:Update: I would be happy with this pin the outside looks great and really pops. The playfield is not bad at all for an old pin and has some character. I would put this in my collection for sure. Nate was a great guy and very helpful he shrinked it up with a blanket and help load. Something went sideways along the way, but I have to say I liked the guy and he was a little late because he had to come from Lakewood and if you lived in CA you would know it's a Christmas miracle he got here. My impression is there are two sides and both parties are good people and people make mistakes some big some small and it's wrong not to forgive. I know I have made mistakes and if we were never forgiven I personally would be fucked. I hope both sides are able to forgive and all of us learn from this. Next update game will be at it's new home. I'm not asking someone to forget but to forgive emotions can get out of hand but hey we have probably been there.
Solid post.
Quoted from AdamPinball:Yea, I get it. NiftyLED screwed the pooch here. Daniel had no right to put the machine up for sale. They made a mistake, a big one and while Sticky doesn't come across as a wonderful person himself only a fool would say he has no right to be angry. So, what should we do here? As the pinball community, how should we handle this? Is the answer really to destroy NiftyLED? To burn their business to the ground and label them as "scammers"? Are we really happy with completely throwing them out of the pinball world, excommunicating them from anything to do with the hobby? Should we ban them from expos? Destroy their business relationships? Is that what we do to people now just because they did not meet your standard of groveling after what is arguably their first real complaint? What about those they associate with like The Pinball Podcast and Chicago Gaming Company? Should we boycott and tear them down too?
Why is it when someone, actually the pair of them in this case, maliciously act upon something in an illegal way, then feel the need to cover it up and/or lie about it when they get caught, get to use the excuse it was a "mistake"? This isn't just pinball, this is everyday life.
I read your whole post, agree with some, disagree with some. While NiftyLED just might be a great group of guys at shows and pinball related outings, they have proven that they have absolutely ZERO business ethics, and should not be running any sort of business. What they did was illegal, immoral, and quite frankly would have sold that machine if someone hit the "buy it now" button on eBay. They deserve to be out of business. This was not a mistake, or a complaint, this was a calculated move by two incompetent partners running a half assed business. Chicago Gaming should 100% drop NiftyLED as fast as they can to disassociate themselves from this monkey business. A business just cannot do shit like that and chalk it up as a mistake. On top of that, the $100 a day storage fee? Could one purposely ruin a reputation any further than that? Groveling doesn't even begin to cover the damage they have caused themselves. Businesses are built on reputation and this move by Nifty was a game changer for an entire business. They loaded the gun, shot themselves in the foot, and then lay blame on everyone else? CGC is run by smart businessmen, they will make the right choice whether they should cut ties or not. If they feel NiftyLED's actions with hurt their sales, you can bet your collective ass they will be gone.
Furthermore, NiftyLED should be thankful to Pinside and the pressure that some of us helped put on here in this thread to make a settlement happen. Sticky could have held to his guns and taken Nifty to court and really caused some financial pain on top of the stained reputation. He could have put them out of business all by himself.
I have lived this scenario with a company I worked for. We had a customer that bought a shell of a truck, a 64 chevy pick up that was lifted. He brought it to us and gave the then manager of the business a $20,000 budget to get it up, running, and drive-able. This included a rebuilt chevy big block engine. They had this truck in their possession for over 2 years. When I was brought on, I was told my primary goal was to get the guys to finish the truck and get the customer to pay and pick it up. We finished it within 90 days of my taking over the shop. It took me 2 days to sort everything out and put together a final invoice which came to approx $28,000. Now I was never involved with any ordering of parts for this vehicle, just getting it done. The previous shop manager never called this guy with any pricing for the overage in cost over the 2 years, like custom driveshafts and suspension parts. The customer would just pop in on occasion and see the progress. When I took over and told this guy I was making his truck a priority, he was excited. Needless to say, the customer said I am not paying. I will give you the $20K I authorized. Can't say that I blame him either. I sat down with the owner of the shop and explained the situation and he basically told me too bad, make him pay or his trucks sits. The customer ended up suing the company and I was brought in for deposition. I told the exact truth of what I knew and the owner was pissed that I wouldn't lie for him. I ended up quitting this hell hole before the case went to trial. However, the customer had a strong case, and was able to get the old manager to testify. The owner of the truck not only won his case, but was awarded damages as well.
UPDATE: I wrote this about 3 hours ago, got busy, and never hit post. Now I see the EXCELLENT gesture by NiftyLED to make this right. I appears they have decided that saving their business is of utmost importance. This is a 1st step in saving that grace compared to what has transpired in the last 36 hours.
I've just spent 4 hours of my holidays to read all 23 pages of this wonderful scam-story, and feels really good to see the happy ending.
The apology was a very very good thing, but I believe it could be extorted out of Nifty's partners,
so no niftyLED for me either. I see a lot of scammer tactics in NiftyLED.
PS: The "restored" playfield looks awful
Quoted from Sticky:Ok, this is the deal.
The reason Nate wanted to speak to me was this.
They are not going to charge me for the game. They want to make amends and make up for what transpired.
Shocked? I am. My jaw dropped.
They said there is a board that needs to be replaced and they will send that out to me when it comes in as well.
Essentially, they want to make this right.
So what do you guys say to that?
I'd say chalk one up to pinside justice.
Quoted from Dooskie:I have to ask....how do you know what Kaneda's bedsheets smell like?
everyone knows what they smell like... Axe body spray and regret.
Quoted from provato:feels really good to see the happy ending.
At no extra charge!
Quoted from Grayman_EM:94 down votes makes me look like a saint.
Now that's some honesty!!!
Wow what a nice turn of events here!
First off I’d just like to say that Buzz.....you are one great guy brother!
Second, hats off to NiftyLED’s and I hope you guys realize what you did was wrong and are forgiven by others.
To the OP, if you are happy with the game I would pay Nifty for their work. Maybe give them their 2200 that was once talked about and give Buzz the rest for some holiday cheer since he is out of work right now. Not trying to tell you how to spend your money, just some thoughts going through my head. Hopefully the OP and Nifty can shake hands and put this behind them and become great friends after all of this. I can be a pretty big A$$hole and hold grudges with the best of them but I can also be very forgiving and give people second chances also. I hope Nifty realizes their mistakes and learns from this and become better people because of it.
Quoted from PinRob:If it was me I’d give ALL the $ to Buzz
That thought even ran through my head also or maybe half to Nifty and half to Buzz. If Nifty refuses any payment then give it to Buzz, I’m sure he could use it right now.
I don't get everyone saying he should refuse to take the pin at no cost. The company isn't insisting on comping the work for his benefit, they're doing it for theirs. This is a business expense plain and simple to try to undo massive damage they did to themselves. The guy isn't being a man of his word by not paying. He said all along he wanted to pay what he owed and kept trying to do just that. But when the other side decide it WANTS to change the terms in his favor - after putting him through the ringer for three years or whatever - his prior obligation ends.
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:I don't get everyone saying he should refuse to take the pin at no cost. The company isn't insisting on comping the work for his benefit, they're doing it for theirs. This is a business expense plain and simple to try to undo massive damage they did to themselves. The guy isn't being a man of his word by not paying. He said all along he wanted to pay what he owed and kept trying to do just that. But when the other side decide it WANTS to change the terms in his favor - after putting him through the ringer for three years or whatever - his prior obligation ends.
I tend to agree with this being the person that was put through the ringer.
I'm not just going to take a free pin though. Everyone will get some Christmas cheer.
From Buzz, to Pinside, to those less fortunate. I'll spread the wealth around.
Merry Christmas.
Quoted from whthrs166:How much is all this grief worth? Just pick up your game and enjoy man.
Well I feel like since Pinside helped me resolve it Pinside plays a role in how we conclude it.
Buzz and my dad are playing the machine right now I think.
Quoted from whthrs166:How much is all this grief worth?
I'll pay a dollar for another thread just like this one.
I know the Nifty boys, more Nate than Daniel, just in the interest of disclosure. I'm not defending anything, clearly they screwed up badly on this one.
My suggestion, whatever it's worth, is that if they're taking the step of giving you the machine for free, obviously as payment towards trying to salvage the hit to their reputation, and you're accepting it, that it might be nice to edit the title of this thread and the opening post with things being resolved in return.
The record of what happened will remain, but very few people are really going to read 23 pages of crazy town to see the resolution.
Up to you, just what I would do after they made a pretty legit gesture of trying to make things right.
Quoted from Aurich:My suggestion, whatever it's worth, is that if they're taking the step of giving you the machine for free, obviously as payment towards trying to salvage the hit to their reputation, and you're accepting it, that it might be nice to edit the title of this thread and the opening post with things being resolved in return.
I think that's a very fair start but before we get carried away I'd like to see the machine myself.
We can edit out the 'stolen' part though as it's in my possession so to speak.
Quoted from o-din:I'll pay a dollar for another thread just like this one.
You trouble maker! 
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:I don't get everyone saying he should refuse to take the pin at no cost. The company isn't insisting on comping the work for his benefit, they're doing it for theirs. This is a business expense plain and simple to try to undo massive damage they did to themselves. The guy isn't being a man of his word by not paying. He said all along he wanted to pay what he owed and kept trying to do just that. But when the other side decide it WANTS to change the terms in his favor - after putting him through the ringer for three years or whatever - his prior obligation ends.
As a business owner I have to agree. Plain and simple, the partners of NiftyLED took a bit of time to come to the conclusion that the best business decision for themselves was to write this one off and no charge it to the customer. It's 3 grand worth of positive publicity that they would have never recovered in the pinball community. The $3000 is a paltry sum compared to losing a business all together. It's an excellent P.R. move AND the right move.
Again, CGC is a group of smart business people and will see the effort made to correct the situation, they too will make the right choice. In light of the new situation, I don't think anyone who is looking to buy one of CGC's remakes is going to pass because it has Nifty LED's.
Quoted from o-din:I'll pay a dollar for another thread just like this one.
I’ll pay a buck fifty not to have another thread like this one......
Aww hell, who am I kidding. Great thread and even better ending.
Quoted from o-din:I'll pay a dollar for another thread just like this one.
I can make great threads happen. I'll hold you to it.
Quoted from Buzz:Update: I would be happy with this pin the outside looks great and really pops. The playfield is not bad at all for an old pin and has some character. I would put this in my collection for sure. Nate was a great guy and very helpful he shrinked it up with a blanket and help load. Something went sideways along the way, but I have to say I liked the guy and he was a little late because he had to come from Lakewood and if you lived in CA you would know it's a Christmas miracle he got here. My impression is there are two sides and both parties are good people and people make mistakes some big some small and it's wrong not to forgive. I know I have made mistakes and if we were never forgiven I personally would be fucked. I hope both sides are able to forgive and all of us learn from this. Next update game will be at it's new home. I'm not asking someone to forget but to forgive emotions can get out of hand but hey we have probably been there.
You're a good dude.
Buzz left and for some reason he tried to refuse a tip. He got a tip despite his protests and a bottle of wine for his trouble. I'll see to it to invite him over to play some pinball and properly say thank you in person.
The machine works great from what I hear but the legs don't have those leveling pads at the bottom. Does anyone know if someone ships this overnight?
Anyway, so far so good with everything. Thanks again to all of you at Pinside.
Quoted from Sticky:Will I ever get over seeing my pin for sale at 3 AM? If I got over my first girlfriend I can probably get over this.
You saw your first girlfriend for sale at 3AM?
Quoted from Sticky:The machine works great from what I hear but the legs don't have those leveling pads at the bottom. Does anyone know if someone ships this overnight?
If you don't mind driving to north OC, I've got a bunch and I'll be here all day.
Quoted from Sticky:Buzz left and for some reason he tried to refuse a tip. He got a tip despite his protests and a bottle of wine for his trouble. I'll see to it to invite him over to play some pinball and properly say thank you in person.
The machine works great from what I hear but the legs don't have those leveling pads at the bottom. Does anyone know if someone ships this overnight?
Anyway, so far so good with everything. Thanks again to all of you at Pinside.
Not wanting to re-read 23 pages of posts, is the game/family located in Ladera Ranch? If so, I am in Lake Forest and I can set out 4 leveler legs for someone to pick up later tonight (after 6:30PM). Just PM me if you want them.
Quoted from CactusJack:Not wanting to re-read 23 pages of posts, is the game/family located in Ladera Ranch? If so, I am in Lake Forest and I can set out 4 leveler legs for someone to pick up later tonight (after 6:30PM). Just PM me if you want them.
This community is amazing.
Thank you.
Quoted from CactusJack:If so, I am in Lake Forest and I can set out 4 leveler legs for someone to pick up later tonight (after 6:30PM). Just PM me if you want them.
That's closer than I am for sure. And I wouldn't want to drive up I-5 on a Friday if I didn't have to. Freeway sucks.
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