I have an idea.

Since Daniel says that he has $3000 in the machine and the OP originally bought it for $800, how about Daniel buys the pin for $3800?

That way, when he sells it for the $5500 that he's asking for on eBay, everyone wins!

You've got my number, text or call when youve got 3k in your hand and we can meet up. I came down $1200, you can come up $500.

I'm fine with letting a judge decide this if thats the route you want to go.

I think this thread is on pace to set a record for fastest to 500 posts....dayum!

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Exactly. In favor of Sticky in 3 minutes. Not sure if they would say anything about trying to sell stolen property or if they would stay clear of it.

Right, which is why I think the OP is probably in the clear here, although he'd have to research what California lets him claim for extra damages (in Minnesota, I found that I was allowed to sue for twice the security deposit plus $200 because landlord illegally withheld it). He has lots of texts he can print out. He can also print out this thread and highlight the important pieces. And if Nifty is as much of a jerk in court as he is here (my landlord was...), it's a slam dunk.

You're right that the judge will want to make both sides "happy" and "mad" at the same time, but this really feels like an open and shut case to me based on what we've seen.

so, let me get this straight...

you already said "the damage is done", so you recognize that you more or less unnecessarily destroyed your business in a matter of two hours, so now you may as well burn the building down on the way out?!?

What a way to run & ruin your business.

You should've initially asked for $10k -- then you could've said "I came down $7k, you can come up $1k."

What exact damages does OP have? has he lost any money? has he lost his machine? no, he can have the machine if he pays for the repairs done to it. Its the same thing if you take your car to a mechanic.

Only the mechanic will let you know what the total will be before he does the repairs.....

I already answered this earlier. The damages are time from you not sticking to the agreement. In Minnesota (I can't speak to California), a landlord not returning your security deposit means the tenant can sue for twice the deposit plus a $200 penalty. So in my case, my landlord didn't want to give me my $500 security deposit back -- and I was able to sue him for $1200.

This is pretty similar in concept. You have his machine and you aren't giving it back for the agreed upon price. You're holding him hostage. There will be penalties for his damages.

we all know the saying..... pinball is hard.

Asking for money for proper work thats ive done isnt terrorism.

Make sure to show the police your unpaid invoice.

My mechanic tells me how much before it gets serviced or calls me if something changes in the quote.

No it ain’t neither. In the mechanics example they actually quote you a price BEFORE THE WORK IS PERFORMED. then you agree or disagree to have it done.

He agreed to have his machine worked on, he agreed to every last part modified or installed on his machine.

Yeah, but the mechanic tells you how much it's going to cost. And they don't keep your car for three years. And they don't try to sell your car when you question the charges.

Other than that, yeah, it's exactly the same as going to the mechanic.

Where did he agree to your price?

man, you're so missing the point. even if you made it right, at this point i wouldn't let you help me set up a pinball machine without a written contract saying you were doing it as a favor and that the machine is mine.

This is terrible! And I thought we were friends.

Good luck. Doesn't seem like you'll need it though.

Actually no, I think it's the fastest thread to 500 posts in which the restorer loses all credibility. First he mentions he has all the texts, then he says he doesn't, then he says that the original quote only included cabinet work and shop, then he says the original quote did not include the LEDS but forgets to mention that by saying that he implies that the plastics pop bumpers etc.. were.....included..... then claims his site was built before the other orangecouontypinballs.com vs orangecountypinball.com (archived.org points to the contrary). Then argues he has not committed a crime by posting the OPs game up for sale on ebay and other sites? then wants OP to just sell him the game for $800.

Restorers last ditch effort is to try and convince the OP not to go to court by stating arbitrary legal documentation.

Restorer brings price down to $3000, OP sticks to original quote of $2550.... instead of going to $2750 and call it a day both have decided to stretch this out some more. It's been an interesting day to say the least.

Anyone able to pass a popcorn refill? I dont want to get up and leave this post. Id come back to 50 new messages...

Here's how I honestly think it would go:

The judge hears both sides of the story. Text messages are shown, the judge points out that individual texts can be deleted, so text message history screenshots are unreliable, but that there does appear to be a request for extra work to be done. The judge scolds Nifty for not being more upfront with charges, the judge scolds Sticky for being so passive in his requests. Then the judge realizes that this is all hobbyist transaction garbage and says, "neither of you have a good case and you're wasting the court's time." He/She then tells Daniel that he needs to return the game and that Sticky has to pay for all the hard costs in the game.

Then they can both argue about what the hard costs are for a bit in front of the judge.

The judge gets more annoyed and splits the difference between what they're asking (which Daniel will have at his $4200 price and Sticky will have at his original price plus the boards cost). Everybody leaves sort of grumpy.

Then there's the fight about delivery/pickup of the game and the payment. Collecting from small claims is often a huge hassle too.

Just work it out here. It's so much better.

Both of you will have a problem in court since there is not a contract, there isn't even anything in writing what the original $1850 included. The Judge will have to do some "rough justice". As the "business" and I use the term loosely in your case......You should always have a written contract.

You should take this as a learning experience and agree to what the OP wants and move on. If you want to charge beyond what is approved, you need to get the modifications to the cost approved in writing otherwise you should expect to eat it. Seriously how long have you been in business?

Here ya go https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/popcorn-machine-who-has-one/page/25#post-4121811

You got $5?

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Comet it is....Thanks to everyone for the recommendation!

I'm glad you're upfront about your cost .... too soon?

True -- which is where Nifty could bring his text messages. But if he doesn't have any...... That backs up Sticky even more. Daniel's going to have a hard time showing the $4200. And then there's the matter of Nifty trying to sell the machine, which will piss the judge off. I think Sticky wins in a landslide, but I don't know what the penalty would be since it's different for different states.

The cargument defense.

Oof.

McDowell's: Home of the Big Mick!

I'm not a fan of the "close name / similar branding" business strategy either.

It reminds me of the time a well know seller of PinballBulbs (I'm not going to mention any names here, but you can probably figure it out) tried to trademark the name of MY website and product. Lucky the trademark office had access to the internet (imagine that) and with a simple search, could see I had been using the name for my website and product for years before their bogus trademark application. So thankfully, their shady trademark move was declined.

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Where the hell is the price? He never gave the OP an updated one as upgrades were done. I lost track - stuck somewhere between $2650 and $3000? I'd say nifty lost more than that difference in sales today.....

Yeah but after I gave him my bowl and he filled it, he said it was $10....

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Disneyland might be getting $8 now and I'm not sure the monkey is still there. So consider it a bargain!

Inflation? I mean it did take 3 years to fill the bowl right?

The problem is that logic is out the window in small claims. You think it would determine everything, but it's a crap shoot unless EVERYTHING is airtight proven. I wouldn't go small claims to decide anything that I could reasonably decide out of court. You get burned on a judgment and you have no recourse left. Small claims should be the last option, because it's so unreliable.

Here's the problem. Even if Nifty wins in court, he loses.

Everyone in the community will know how he never resolved this issue properly, and will avoid his businesses like the plague. This thread will get brought up every time he posts somewhere. It will eventually be brought to CGC's attention, if it already hasn't, and he risks losing that business as well. All over mistakes he made himself. Time to admit when you're wrong and do the right thing.

He just drove his business and name right off a cliff.

I think sticky will come out good in court. The judge will see how long he kept the game (3 years almost) and side with sticky. Plus sticky has way more documentation and Daniel trying to sell the game looks super shady.

Sounds like the OP doesn’t care at this point. Rather try and get his way in small claims than give nifty a cent. Can’t say I blame him.

I can only speak from my experience, but Nifty seems a lot like my ex-landlord, and he was literally laughed out of court. Seriously, the other people waiting for their case to be tried were laughing at him half the trial.

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500.

500 ways to destroy your business