Totally, you seem to be seeing that phrase as "worst offer"

For me, a lowball offer directly results in reduced interest, flexibility and willingness to negotiate on price.
If someone makes a reasonable offer that shows they understand the market and the value of the item, that's great, let's make a deal.
Otherwise, take a hike.
I price my pins below market anyway, so most people just pay what I'm asking and leave happy.

Which leads me to believe your offer was truly insulting. If you are going to send insulting offers you need to get thicker skin.

Uh...who started this thread?

Well there you go, you have it all figured out. Just wait for 'eventually' and buy up all the deals that materialize. In the meantime the rest of us will be enjoying our games.

Has anyone addressed the possibility that even though listed at 1500 OBO, if the game's market value is close to 900 the offer is reasonable?

No, because the OP won't even state what the game is

Shit I'm outta gas, I have no idea what those are worth . Either way, when I want to spend significantly less than the listed price, I've found it to work best for me if I just wait until they drop it closer to my offer before I message them. And I try to be pretty friendly about it. It doesn't work everytime, but I think that would help get responses.

Strangely I've never had one of my offers not responded to.

The sellers I've found on pinside have been excellent to me so far, hell I consider many of them friends now.

Look, hobby or not, this is the sober, unemotional bargaining side of it. Common courtesies are nice, but expect none. Sometimes, after no response to my offer, I get a pm weeks later asking if I'm still interested. Why does anyone need closure on these things?

I will offer to arrange and pay for the shipping if I feel my initial offer is a bit low. This at least shows the seller you are serious and could help start a dialogue.

....... Man, don't even get me started on the philosophy around shipping arrangements.

This one? https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/whats-for-sale-in-st-louis-area/page/9#post-4509748

If that's the SBM he made the offer on, let me throw out some comparable pricing from the 2 I sold in the last 10 months. I sold my better one with an mint BG and PF that had more wear than that one but still nice for $1500. Cabinet was equal. Sold my total project game without any boards or displays with a mint BG for $500. So IMO $900 "best offer" wasn't worth a reply if that was the seller choice. I personally would of responded with my lowest sales price.

I find it funny that pinside forums most often side with the seller in these situations. It’s considered rude to “price police” if the potential buyers think the price is too high. At the same time, it’s totally ok to call this guy out on a “lowball” offer. There are certain sellers on here that I won’t even look at their ads because I know they overvalue the crap out of every pin they put up for sale.

As far as I’m concerned, the buyer is the one accepting all of the risk (has to travel, putting up the money, relying on pictures to see the condition of the machine). The worst thing that can happen to a seller is that they don’t sell the machine, while the buyer can get screwed in many ways.

If you put OBO on your listing, I think it’s only polite to respond to the offers you receive. It literally takes 5 seconds to say “no, thank you”. Similarly, I would never offer 10% of the asking price. Common courtesy goes a long way.

Its more about how someone acts if their behavior isnt embraced.

Someone wants to sell high... then roll with the results verse cry victim when people dont like it. Or here... trying to go thin and then wonder why you dont get gold star treatment.

Lie in the bed you made

And sellers bear the brunt of the non sense in a transaction. The tire kickers... the non commital... the flakes... the needy... the refund guys... etc etc etc.

And in remote buyers?? Pain awaits

.

Anybody else get the feeling that the OP is just trying to raise pts for his
Pinside achievements?

I agree with you in that there is a pinball golden rule in that you should treat others how you would like to be treated.

I do disagree somewhat in your assessment of the nonsense. Sure, people may waste your time as a seller, but I’ve wasted my time and money as well by showing up and looking at machines that are obviously in much worse condition than stated in the ads, the Williams/Bally error dot is present, has a weak flipper, etc.

I feel like, as a seller, you should expect people to be wary. They don’t know you, they don’t know the history of the machine, and there is nowhere that you can get an up to date and accurate price, especially with all of the mods, shaker motors, upgraded speakers, etc. I think a lot of people are just going with NIB products because of the issues they’ve had buying in the past. It costs $0 to list here on pinside, so the most you are out is time. I think the high resale prices are making all of us a little more picky on what we buy. I would never go to a used car lot and pay full price and I don’t think you would either.

My personal advice is to never sell or buy anything as expensive as a pinball machine online, sight unseen, unless you personally know the buyer/seller or there it’s a business you can deal with if everything goes South. I think this is where a lot of the problems occur.
In person, you can inspect and both sides can sign an “as is” agreement after the inspection takes place.

I hope you don’t take this the wrong way, I just feel that the actual risk is on the buyers side most of the time

Yep. Us pinsiders are busy all right. . .busy discussing the art of negotiating, the next great game and how we have not a nanosecond for a courteous "no thanks" reply. What? Have we all been raised by wolves? Sheesh!

I generally won’t offer below 2/3rds original asking price. Pretty much for anything. Most people if they are serious will respond to that. If someone is 2X fair market then I don’t even bother offering as they are not looking at the same value guides I am.

What really irks me though is the postings saying “make me an offer”. This usually means either 1) auction or 2) guess what number I am thinking of. I have never once had a deal work out from that starting point. To all sellers either state what you think it’s worth to not waste everyone’s time or actually go list it on eBay auction site if you really don’t know.

Yeah he should responded. "Well if you bring a jar Vaseline you can buy my machine!"

What happened to just replying with "I'm interested in purchasing your game" Why immediately throw out a low ball offer?

I guess it's better then the "what's the least you'll take?" Good luck getting a response back with that garbage

I don't think that's the pinball golden rule but just a life's general rule. Or at least that's what I teach my kid daily.

Sellers have never had it so easy. Used to be if you wanted to sell something you had to put up post cards in the laundromat, or pay money to place an ad in the local shopper magazine, or pay money and place an ad in the local newspaper. Before the days of answering machines you had to stay home all weekend to answer the phone. Sometimes you never got a call. But the the bill for placing the ad still arrived and you still had to pay for the ad as you looked at what you were trying to sell sitting there gathering dust.

Now, all you have to do is place a free ad in Craig's List or on Pinside and say "text me". And you can run these ads forever at no cost to you. But when no one comes around to pay your price you get your feelings hurt and you get all huffy about it and cop an attitude. I'm sorry you screwed around and got yourself buried in a machine that not many people want but that does not mean my offer is "lowball". All you have to do is say "I appreciate your offer but I cannot go that low". Just be nice. Even if you think I am a piece of shit, just be nice. It's business and 90% of business is kissing ass. You never know what will happen tomorrow.

The OP said something along the lines that buyer's determine the market and got hammered on. Was he right? If nobody has any money what do you think?

And it all depends on what you are trying to sell:

Bally Fathom: #40 in Top 100. 3500 units produced. 246 pinsiders own it. 406 have it on their wish list. The seller can cop a "fk you" attitude when trying to sell a Fathom.

Bally Silverball Mania: #241 in Top 100. 10,350 units produced. 223 pinsiders own it. 72 have it on their wishlist. It would pay for the seller to suck it up and be nice to all comers.

Gottlieb Student Prince: #??? in Top EM 100. 3502 units produced. 13 pinsiders own it. 2 have it on their wish list. Seller needs a tube of lipstick and some serious ass kissing skills to move this pin. Any offer is a good offer.

No one knows what kind of life the seller leads. He may be the CEO of a fortune 500 company working 80 hours a week. A $900 offer on a $1500 game just tells me the buyer and I are going to be too far apart to end up making a deal and it's not going to be worth my time. Yes, I could respond with a "no thanks", only to have the buyer respond with a slightly higher low ball offer. This is the back and forth I would have no interest in.

It's similar to when I was an electrical contractor and things were busy enough I was working 7 days a week. I would come home to 5 voicemails asking about having work done. I would be courteous and call them back and explain I didn't have the time. A one minute phone call turned into a fifteen minute one when they would try and talk me into doing their work. I would then spend an hour with those 5 voicemails. I hate to say it, but I reached a point where I just didn't call people back because I didn't have the time.

Just my perspective. If I received “let me know if you are interested” I would probably just move on if I was not interested, thinking that’s what you meant. Sounds like an innocent misunderstanding.

I often do this to save time, I have sent several people messages on Craigslis recently. “I have a Harley I am selling, but would be interesting in trading it and some cash for your car, if you have any interest in this let me know”. Quite frankly I did not expect a reply from them unless they were interested. Replying would be pointless if they have no interested in my bike.

To me best offer means

1) I list at the price I want to sell it for
2) if you don't want to pay the price I want to sell it for, give me your best price.
3) After several days/weeks whatever, I will look at all the offers that have been given to me, and accept the most appealing one (or negotiate from there)

To me it means.... "this pin will be sold... if not at this price, then to the person who is willing to pay the most."
It does not necessarily mean "This is the point where we start haggling".

However... I do believe out of courtesy, every offer, even a low ball, deserves a response. For a real low ball, I would say "I'm sorry, but if that's all I can get for this, I'll be keeping it", or maybe respond with a "the absolute least I would take is XXXX". If you want to really sell it, you respond to all leads, even if it sounds insincere because you never know the buyers motive.

...isn't this how a "poor me, the lowballer who never gets the deals" thread usually ends? The lowballer lamenting the fact that it's now sold to someone else when a fair offer in the first place would've never brought about this thread and the OP would be playing his Silverball Mania. There will be other SBM's--maybe they'll be nicer than this one for a better price. Don't be a tire-kicking time-waster on the next one and it could be yours.

The worst buyer is the one who shows up to buy the machine knowing the price is firm. Plays the games and checks it out for a while and then proceeds to "offer" $300 less than the price. WTF? That's a WASTE of my time. I'd rather waste time in emails than have that happen in person. From now on, I make it clear than the price is the price. I hate saying that to someone after we make a deal now because it seems rude, but one bad apple ruins it for everyone after him.

I think average folks can afford a $1500 OBO toy if they choose to.

If not then they have no business buying them and have other more important needs in their lives to take care of.

And do you even own a game yet?

The situation you describe is when new businesses open up because there is backlog in the market place. Or this environment gives you the opportunity to raise prices. I saw this with my dad's neighbor who was a TV repairman. He was working on my dad's TV and said he was too busy and was going to have to raise his prices.

But that worm can turn and then you are on the other side making sales calls trying to up business.

Now hold on there a minute about this "pricing everyone out of the hobby" BS. I have spent a king's ransom in gas just chasing the pins I have been collecting. I have been spending a military budget on buying parts and getting them restored, or at the least, playable.

If I am fortunate, I will have chosen wisely and there will be buyer's for my pins at prices I would like to have when I get ready to sell them. I have no intention is knocking them out at fire sale prices in an effort to "encourage" the hobby. If I chose unwisely, I will lose my ass and you may get a bargain. That's how it goes.

Or the market could collapse and I lose my ass. That's the way it is.

I'm on your side when you make an offer. I think you should get a response. But if you do not have enough money to play the game that is just tuff. Go get a 2nd job.

Everybody has been talking about the nutty prices some of these old pins are bringing. You talk like it is killing the hobby. I argue that the increasing prices are helping the hobby. People are willing to spend money on their old pins. People spending money attract new people to come in and make needed parts that have been obsolete for years.

Some old pin worth $25.00 will go the dumpster. An old pin worth $400-$500, well, word gets around and that old pin will get to live again someday.

Give me a break. I bought 2 pins in the past year for under $1k each (Black Hole and Sharpshooter). I also sold a pin for under $1k (a Stern Nine Ball). Do you ever check out the Craigslist thread here at pinside? Tons of games for under $1k. Just because you aren't finding good deals doesn't mean all the sellers are to blame. There's just as many sellers overpricing as there are buyers low-balling. If the games you want are out of your price range, why not start saving instead of complaining the prices are too high?

WTF! YOU would be one of those, should be a minute call but turns into fifteen.

You don't seem to want to hear what people are trying to tell you.