(Topic ID: 154525)

"Opto Trough Bad..." message, balls constantly ejecting on Shadow


By PanzerFreak

3 years ago



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  • 54 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Dmod
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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There are 54 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 3 years ago

Hi,

I picked up a Shadow a few weeks ago, got it home, cleaned the playfield a little, repaired the Sanctum area and then installed a Color DMD. Well last night I finally put some balls in the game turned it on and saw the "Opto Trough Bad Check Connectors, Wires and 12v Supply" error message on the Color DMD. After seeing the message the game just starts ejecting and shooting balls out again and again in a loop. I turned the game off and checked the two opto connectors (re-seated) and they are fine. I was able to start a game one of the times but like before the game just continued to eject all balls over and over again.

I'm not sure if my issue could be tied to me installing a Color DMD. As the Color DMD WPC instructions state I removed (well I just disconnected) the original 8 pin DMD power cable (J-604) from the game. The Color DMD power cable needs to go to J-116 which already had a connector. As mentioned in the instructions I removed the existing J-116 connector and used the included male-to-male adapter to connect the original cable and the Color DMD cable to J-116. I re-seated the connectors and the issue is still occurring. I saw in an older Pinside issue that trough board issues may be tied to J-116 to J-118?

Any other suggestions?

Thank you

#2 3 years ago

Did you test the optos in the trough? Do they register in test mode. Sounds like either the receiver or transmitter isn't working on one of the boards. Put game in test mode and drop a ball in the trough...what registers?

#3 3 years ago

I haven't tried that yet. I'll try that this evening when I get home from work. Thank you!

#4 3 years ago

Possibility:

If it has that long 7 opto trough it could have divots in the edge of the metal the balls roll down. If they are bad enough, the ball over the popper will get fed to the shooter lane but the rest of the balls stay where they are due to the divots. This flips out the switch matrix and it just starts firing balls at will.

#5 3 years ago

Hmmm. I'll check that out. Thank you.

I think I'm in the right spot in the switch tests. Troughs 1-5 are reading as open. I resoldered connections in the trough board but I'm still getting the same message.

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#6 3 years ago

I also did a switch test for all 5 optos in the trough. I dropped one ball in at a time and could see the switch test picking them up.

Any other ideas?

#7 3 years ago

Now this is weird. Tried playing another game. After the first ball was launched they all started firing again. Went back into switch test and I switches 46 (top trough) and 47 (inner loop enter) seemed to switching on and off. Both of those show up as closed which according the manual is normal. Hmmmm

#8 3 years ago

Check fuses, had this on my IJ and DH and in both cases had lost 12 volt fuse continuity. IJ spcefically started launching balls and DH have me the message you are seeing. I also have a color dmd in the DH running in blue high definition.

#9 3 years ago

Thanks for the tips! I'll check that fuse. Now I just need to figure out which one it is, haha.

#10 3 years ago

Got it. Just needed to look in the manual. "See said the blind man" comes to mind from my Grandmother, lol.

#11 3 years ago

IJ I had shorted out the 12v fuse with a pinched wire, DH I had to remove and replace them, just a bad connection. I think I also swapped the connection of the color dmd on DH. Look for 12v regulated and unregulated.

#12 3 years ago

Hope that solves it, I had small panic when it showed up on DH. Of course I followed my Space Station manual and blew my MPU because it had improper labelling in the manual compared to the board. Luckily damage was only 4 chips and a local pin head has repaired it for me....good luck

#13 3 years ago

Thanks for the tips, out getting some fuses now. When you say you had to swap the connection for the color dmd on DH is that to a different j-connector? In the Color DMD instructions it says to go to J-116 I believe. Did you connect to a different one? I already had a connector there so I'm using the included adapter.

#14 3 years ago

Since the ColorDMD is working, the 12V fuse is OK but seems you're not getting power to the playfield optos. Check to make sure the cable connection through the adapter is not reversed. The color and position of the wires should line up on both sides of the adapter.

Also check/reseat J117 and J118. They are connected in parallel with J116, and it's possible your playfield power connector is actually connected to one of the other headers.

#15 3 years ago

I'm working out of town until Monday, can check then. I know I had to change a couple things as I have some mods powered from there

#16 3 years ago

With Dirty Harry, what Randy(Dmod) says it what I had to do. Then no issue.

#17 3 years ago

Thanks Randy for the tips! Well, it looks like I may have some connectors mixed up or even a missing wire. Not sure.

Below is the wiring config for J-116, J-117, and J-118 according to The Shadow manual.

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Below is the original state of the three connectors on my games power drive board. While J-117 has 3 wires as stated in the manual, connector J-116 does not and only has two. The manual states that J-116 should have 3 wires but I'm only see two, I don't see a lose wire anywhere either.

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Picture of adapter. I see that it has three wires. I tried the connector plugged into J-117 on my board (since it has 3 wires like the connector, made sure they matched up) but that resulted in the same error. I've swapped them all around and still get the same error.

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I'm really puzzled! Any suggestions?

Thank you

#18 3 years ago

If I remember correctly, I think the connector with 5V (red wire) is the low voltage harness to the DMD controller board in the backbox.

The other two carry only 12V to the playfied (for optos, motors, etc) and to the coin door. Check to make sure there's not a broken wire on either connector.

To identify which is which, you can plug one connector in at a time and check with a DMM for 12V at the trough.

There's also the possibility that the connector at the trough is loose or not making a good connection.

#19 3 years ago

From your picture above, showing the switch matrix, looks like your trough optos aren't working. Either that or there are balls installed. Please remove the balls from the trough and go into switch test. See if the optos come up as closed (normally closed).
It looks like your other optos are functioning fine.
Might need to rebuild the trough opto connectors or replace the trough opto boards.
Can you please take a photo of your trough opto boards. Machine on and off.

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#20 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I also did a switch test for all 5 optos in the trough. I dropped one ball in at a time and could see the switch test picking them up.
Any other ideas?

I scanned over this post and missed it. This means your optos are receiving 12V.

You may just have a problem with one bad/dirty opto at the top of the trough. The game thinks there are too many balls in the trough and keeps kicking one out. Follow pincredible's advice and remove all the balls. Check to see if one of the optos is still off in the switch test.

#21 3 years ago
Quoted from pincredible:

From your picture above, showing the switch matrix, looks like your trough optos aren't working. Either that or there are balls installed. Please remove the balls from the trough and go into switch test. See if the optos come up as closed (normally closed).
It looks like your other optos are functioning fine.
Might need to rebuild the trough opto connectors or replace the trough opto boards.
Can you please take a photo of your trough opto boards. Machine on and off.

Screenshot_2016-03-12_12.44.19_(resized).png

Thank you for the tips. Yes, I believe the balls were in the trough at the time. I just checked the switch test again and with the balls in the trough they show up as open, all 5.

#22 3 years ago
Quoted from Dmod:

I scanned over this post and missed it. This means your optos are receiving 12V.
You may just have a problem with one bad/dirty opto at the top of the trough. The game thinks there are too many balls in the trough and keeps kicking one out. Follow pincredible's advice and remove all the balls. Check to see if one of the optos is still off in the switch test.

Thanks! The opto test looks good, all trough switches are open with balls in the trough. When I took the balls out all trough switches showed closed.

The "Opto trough board..." error on power up is now gone. I replaced fuse 115 (replaced f116 earlier which didn't correct issue) turned the game on and it was gone. I just used the two wire connector at J116, the three wire J117 connector is where it was. I put a slow blow fuse in it though and the manual shows it should really have a fast blow fuse...

I thought the auto ball launching issue was gone but its still happening every game, not right away but just at random. One game ended and the game was still trying to shoot out all the balls. I took the trough boards out and cleaned the optos but the issue is still occurring. I don't think having the a slow vs fast blow guse in f115 could be causing the issue? Maybe the opto boards themselves are just bad. I did cold solder every solder point on the boards earlier as well.

#23 3 years ago

I am assuming this game has a 7 opto trough...and the above chart is tough to read, but...

Unless I'm mistaken opto switch 46 is the 'trough jam' switch. If the game sees this switch OPEN (blocked by a second ball in the chute from trough to shooter lane) the game will automatically start firing balls up the chute to clear the 'jam'.

To see if it's intermittent, enter switch edge test and just let the game sit for a couple of hours. Check on it occasionally (or when you hear a switch transition sound cue). If 46 is displayed as the last switch registered that is your problem.

#24 3 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

I am assuming this game has a 7 opto trough...and the above chart is tough to read, but...
Unless I'm mistaken opto switch 46 is the 'trough jam' switch. If the game sees this switch OPEN (blocked by a second ball in the chute from trough to shooter lane) the game will automatically start firing balls up the chute to clear the 'jam'.
To see if it's intermittent, enter switch edge test and just let the game sit for a couple of hours. Check on it occasionally (or when you hear a switch transition sound cue). If 46 is displayed as the last switch registered that is your problem.

Thank you! Opto switch 46 could very well be the problem. I remember going into the switch test one time and all of sudden I heard the switch transition sound cue and thought I saw it say 46 and or 47.

#25 3 years ago

I tried cold soldering the trough jam opto and it's connector again on both boards. Fired up game, same issue. Will let game sit for a bit like you said and see if it switch audio cue comes on again.

#26 3 years ago

...and the "opto trough board..." error just reappeared on start up. I can't win, lol.

#27 3 years ago

Top trough opto, jam opto, shows closed in test. However, I left the switch test on and did notice that switch 46 was open and closing randomly ok occasion. Could be a dead LED I suppose. Already cold soldered that area twice. I think I'm going to order a new set of opto boards from Great Lakes Modular, I need to order a set anyway for my STTNG.

#28 3 years ago

Try cleaning the trough optos with alcohol and a Q-tip.

#29 3 years ago

it sounds like you have a flaky opto in the trough. Put the playfield on its support rails, put game in test mode and slide a piece of paper between each of the optos to break the beam and make sure each one registers.

#30 3 years ago

How many balls are you installing?
I think it's a 4 ball game.

#31 3 years ago

Hi guys,

Thanks for the additional tips. I tried cleaning the original optos but that didn't help. Checked ball count and I have 5 balls in the game which is the correct number.

I ended up getting a new set of opto boards from Great Lakes Modular. I installed them today, same issue...I played one game fine and then the next all the balls started firing. Sometimes when I start the game up I'll see the bad opto board message, others I don't. I did see switch 47 for the inner loop optos go on / off randomly in the switch edge test. I took those out and cleaned them but the ball launch issue still occured. Connections to the optos for the inner loop look good. I'm not sure what the problem may be at this point. I was really hoping the new trough boards would have fixed the issue.

Any more ideas?

#32 3 years ago

Oh, sometimes with the new boards I noticed that balls were not even causing the trough switches to open / close when in the switch test while other times they suddenly were...weird. I just turned the game on again, didn't even start a game and the balls just auto launched...

#33 3 years ago

Also, I'm seeing switches 46-47 opening / closing randomly in the switch test the game is just sitting still in the switch edge test. 46 is the top trough (jam) and 47 is the inner loop optos which I took off and cleaned.

#34 3 years ago

Check your connectors on trough boards . Put in switch test and move connectors see if you get random switch closures .I had similar problem on StNG and replaced idc connectors at trough boards

#35 3 years ago

Thanks. The connectors look good. I replaced the two optos for switch 47 (the inner sanctum shot). The switch along with 46 is still opening on and off...ugh.

#36 3 years ago

The video below shows the switch behavior I'm seeing (right around 7 seconds)

#37 3 years ago

Reseat the connector on the board for column 4. Inspect the green/yellow wire in pin 4 for separation from the IDC connector pin.

Ignore the loop switch for now....it will not cause zombie multiballs.

#38 3 years ago

Thanks! I'll give that a try first thing in the morning.

#39 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Sometimes when I start the game up I'll see the bad opto board message, others I don't. I did see switch 47 for the inner loop optos go on / off randomly in the switch edge test. I took those out and cleaned them but the ball launch issue still occured. Connections to the optos for the inner loop look good. I'm not sure what the problem may be at this point. I was really hoping the new trough boards would have fixed the issue.
Any more ideas?

Yes, I have an idea. I repaired a WCS for a very similar fault. In fact, I was chasing myself for a while because I kept getting bad opto board message and balls sometimes would kick out 2 balls and auto launch. So for the heck of it, I tested out all the switches in the column and found on most of the regular switches I would get 3 switches registering even though I only pushed on one. I looked at all the switches in that column and ended up finding out I had a broken green switch return wire to one of the regular switches. Problem solved after stripping and soldering the wire.

So, since the rest of the switches in the column are optos, except for the one, check the shooter lane switch for a broken green wire on the switch. If both wires on connected, test out the switch in the switch test to see what happens. It could be possible you may even have a broken wire to one of the other optos in that column. Just start with testing the shooter lane switch and then all the optos in that one column.

#40 3 years ago
Quoted from pintime:

Check your connectors on trough boards . Put in switch test and move connectors see if you get random switch closures .I had similar problem on StNG and replaced idc connectors at trough boards

Yes, this one is a possibility too since all the trough optos are in this same column. You can mess with the wires on the transmitter opto board during switch test to see if you notice multiple switch recordings while you push on the wires in that IDC connector.

#41 3 years ago

Thanks for the tips PinballManiac40 and Cody!

I'm trying to figure out which J connector is for that column of switches.

The shooter lane switch is working as expected, no odd behavior and oddly enough is the only switch in the colum that isn't flaking out in the switch edge test. Below is another video I took showing all of the opto switches in that column flaking out. In the video below all of the balls have been removed from the trough. I also disconnected the connector for the inner loop Sanctum, switch 47, which is on the same switch column since that one was flaking out before. There are optos on another column for the ramps and mini playfield but they are fine.

#42 3 years ago

Take a look at the 10 sw opto board. The switches that are flaking out run through that board.

#43 3 years ago

Thanks! I'll take a look tonight. Also going to replace a 100 mfd capacitor on the power driver board that I've read causes a lot of 12v issues and repin J116 - J118. I removed each of those connectors during the ColorDMD install so it's possible a wire may be lose.

#44 3 years ago

The 10-opto board is generally under the playfield

#45 3 years ago

Some tests results.

1. Regulated 12v test point on driver board read 12.2
2. Opto board power point read 13.8 which seems very high
3. J116 to J118 connector is showing about 13.98v. It seems like the longer the game is on the voltage starts to rise.

#46 3 years ago

Also, fuse f116 is showing around 6.4v while f115 is showing 12v. Both should be 12v.

#47 3 years ago

The problem turned out to be the ColorDMD itself and it's draw on the 12v. I saw another thread on here where someone reported a similar issue. I went back to the standard DMD for now and will install a seperate PSU for the ColorDMD.

#48 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

The problem turned out to be the ColorDMD itself and it's draw on the 12v. I saw another thread on here where someone reported a similar issue. I went back to the standard DMD for now and will install a seperate PSU for the ColorDMD.

Thats what I was trying to say in my pm to you ... I figured it was 12v issues bc I had some of the same issues . Glad you kinda figured it out

#49 3 years ago

You shouldn't need to add another PSU for the ColorDMD unless you're running other mods off 12V. It sounds like the bridge rectifier or capacitor associated with the unregulated supply is failing. This is a common problem.

Please check the voltage on TP1 when the ColorDMD is connected/disconnected. It should be over 13V with the ColorDMD disconnected and over 12V with it connected. If it's under these ratings, you should replace the bridge/cap on the power driver board that is associated with the unregulated 12V supply. If I remember correctly, should be BR5 and C30.

Randy

#50 3 years ago
Quoted from Dmod:

You shouldn't need to add another PSU for the ColorDMD unless you're running other mods off 12V. It sounds like the bridge rectifier or capacitor associated with the unregulated supply is failing. This is a common problem.
Please check the voltage on TP1 when the ColorDMD is connected/disconnected. It should be over 13V with the ColorDMD disconnected and over 12V with it connected. If it's under these ratings, you should replace the bridge/cap on the power driver board that is associated with the unregulated 12V supply. If I remember correctly, should be BR5 and C30.
Randy

Yep in the shadow I was working on I had a bad cap for the 12v but once it was fixed everything worked as it should

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