(Topic ID: 115681)

Option for higher scoring on JJP Pins Yes/No


By DarkWizard

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 143 posts
  • 68 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by PEN
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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Topic poll

“Would you like an option for Higher Scoring on JJP pins?”

  • Yes 65 votes
    27%
  • No 176 votes
    73%

(241 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

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There are 143 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
#1 4 years ago

Yes or no. Just looking for gut feelings. No name calling please.

Not adding don't care as an option. That's the easy way out.

Keeping it simple and Anonymous.

Feel free to comment to bump the thread though.

#2 4 years ago

I'm not sure what you are proposing. Do you mean to have the minimum score be 10 points rather than 1 point?

Personally, I find it deliciously refreshing that they have implemented a scoring system that makes sense. I think having a minimum score of 10 or 100 points makes as much sense as having a minimum score of 0.1 or 0.01 points.

#3 4 years ago

it is a discussion from another thread about adding 1 or 2 zeros to the end of the score so that people "feel better" about getting 78,500,000 (or 7,850,000) instead of 785,000 on Wizard of Oz (and possibly The Hobbit)

#4 4 years ago

No

#5 4 years ago

You can do whatever you want, as long as I don't have to play it.

-6
#6 4 years ago
Quoted from tamoore:

You can do whatever you want, as long as I don't have to play it.

Wow aren't you clever.

#9 4 years ago

No, please not

#10 4 years ago

no need

#11 4 years ago

Just add a zero to the end of your score if it makes you feel better

#12 4 years ago

I really like the lower scores. In fact, I think the better question is whether we should get code updates for other machines to take away zeros as a setting.

#13 4 years ago

We suck as a people if these are our concerns....MAN I love being American...!!!... ...............Joey

#14 4 years ago

I think points should start at one million and we all get trophies...these days why does everything have to make everyone a winner, there can't be winners without losers or it is just masturbation....

-2
#15 4 years ago

Ok, you win. I changed my mind. I love low scores. In fact, can you make them lower so people are even happier.

Why is it so hard to understand that it might be a good idea to , even though the scores are still totally unrelated, have scoring between machines be "similar".

Quoted from badpenny61:

I think points should start at one million and we all get trophies...these days why does everything have to make everyone a winner, there can't be winners without losers or it is just masturbation....

The ludicrous snarky remarks about billions and trillions of points are totally missing "the point".

It has nothing to do with "trophies" and making everyone a winner.

It has to do with success OR failure being relatively easy for people who don't want to get super involved in the hobby to determine between different machines.

Like if I am going 8kph in my Prius or 5mph in my Prius, they are relatively in the same ballpark. Totally unrelated and different, yet easy enough to tell that I am going ridiculously slow on both scales.

To anyone thinking I am talking about having a high score just so its higher, no that's not why. It's called a clue, try getting one.

Quoted from JeffA:

I really like the lower scores. In fact, I think the better question is whether we should get code updates for other machines to take away zeros as a setting.

This would be a perfectly fine example of a solution to the issue. Totally for it, but much easier to do it the other way and have JJP update 2 machines instead of trying to get code updates for hundreds of machines.

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from DarkWizard:

It has to do with success OR failure being relatively easy for people who don't want to get super involved in the hobby to determine between different machines.

This is one of the reasons I have the dry erase board with scores in my gameroom. People can see what others have scored to get an idea of what's typical for different games. Plus, they can record their personal best to try to improve on it.

#17 4 years ago
Quoted from DarkWizard:

Ok, you win. I changed my mind. I love low scores. In fact, can you make them lower so people are even happier?
Why is it so hard to understand that it might be a good idea to , even though the scores are still totally unrelated, have scores between machines be "similar".

The ludicrous snarky remarks about billions and trillions of points are totally missing "the point".
It has nothing to do with "trophies" and making everyone a winner.
It has to do with success OR failure being relatively easy for people who don't want to get super involved in the hobby to determine between different machines.
Like if I am going 8kph in my Prius or 5mph in my Prius, they are relatively in the same ballpark. Totally unrelated and different, yet easy enough to tell that I am going ridiculously slow on both scales.
It's called a clue, try getting one.

Since you have decided that this should be debated now... The scores are relative. Who cares if they're relatively low? Attack from Mars scores are about 100 times higher than medieval madness scores. You don't see troves of complaints there. As for the "people are even happier" comment above, the poll shows that people are fine with how it is. The only scores you might want to change are the default high scores so it's easier to bunk them out. Luckily you can do all that in the settings. Scoring is a measure for how well you're doing in a game. It's better to have a number than a red and green bar. In this case the numbers are relatively low, although I have broken a million several times and a million seems like a large number to me.

#18 4 years ago

I'd like it to score even lower like an old EM.

These scores that are into the billions are too hard for beginners to even fathom.

If WOZ is supposed to attract women and children to start playing pinball, the lower the scoring, the better.

#19 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

These scores that are into the billions are too hard for beginners to even fathom.
If WOZ is supposed to attract women and children to start playing pinball, the lower the scoring, the better.

If the machine was all by itself, I would agree. But if they just played AFM and got 100,000,000 points for plunging the ball, then mosey over to the Hobbit and get 5,000 points for a half decent attempt they will be fathoming that they did worse in the Hobbit. IMHO, which certainly might be wrong. Just my gut feeling. To be clear, I won't be having this problem. I am merely a spokesperson.

The public has spoken. A round of low scores for everyone on me. Whatever you do JJP, don't add the option for adjusting scoring. It was a silly concept to begin with. Options... who needs them.

I'll just shut up and enjoy my hobbit when it arrives.

#20 4 years ago

Simple, if you like high scoring games (3MM plus), then don't buy JJP.

#21 4 years ago
Quoted from BoozeMarlin:

Simple, if you like high scoring games (3MM plus), then don't buy JJP.

It's not going to keep me from buying the game. Just a request

#22 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I'd like it to score even lower like an old EM.

I like the games that if you get 1000 pts, it's a big deal.

#23 4 years ago

I agree with the idea of rough standardization. This was partially true in the 80s with arcade games. 1 million was considered a great score on many games. I think this would be a great standard for all games.

#24 4 years ago

You have the power to suggest, not request.

#25 4 years ago
Quoted from KingPinGames:

You have the power to suggest, not request.

I beg to differ.

re·quest
rəˈkwest/
noun
noun: request; plural noun: requests

1.
an act of asking politely or formally for something

I just asked for it, with the poll officially on the books, I'de call that formal or at least semi formal.

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#27 4 years ago

if the scoring is balanced, who cares

in some games a shot can score millions
which makes every shot that doesn't, kinda pointless

IMHO every shot should count

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#29 4 years ago

couple of extra zeros could really help tie the pin together......er I might be in the wrong thread

#30 4 years ago
Quoted from DarkWizard:

It has to do with success OR failure being relatively easy for people who don't want to get super involved in the hobby to determine between different machines.

If you're even mildly involved in the hobby, you should know that modern games have very different scoring. If you have a total noob at your house, a good time to teach them about this is when they're walking up to your hobbit. Just say that the game has lower scoring than other games and that they should check the high scores to see what a good score is. If they don't know how to check high scores, that doesn't take long to teach either.

I've been playing for decades and I tend to remember the accomplishments rather than the scores. I've rolled lots of EM's. I've ruled the universe numerous times. Things like that. Scores all become a blur after a while.

Quoted from Russell:

I agree with the idea of rough standardization. This was partially true in the 80s with arcade games. 1 million was considered a great score on many games. I think this would be a great standard for all games.

That was due to technological limitations. The differences we get now should be appreciated, not 'fixed. Bowling and darts have fixed scoring. Pinball doesn't. And that's a good thing. As the French say, Viva La Difference.

#31 4 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

I've rolled lots of EM's. I've ruled the universe numerous times.

252_2_zps3cd1352f.jpg

#32 4 years ago

It's just a survey folks. Nobody demanding anything.

For my opinion...I personally really like the scoring. One thing I don't care for on my ToM is that I can walk up to it and get a billion. I don't feel like I'm earning every point. I feel like I get millions thrown at me left and right to the degree that it becomes meaningless.

#33 4 years ago

Well, the poll is close.

#34 4 years ago

Just draw a 0 on the right side of your display! BOOM, all scores multiplied by 10. Easy fix.

Woz score.jpg
#35 4 years ago
Quoted from DarkWizard:

Totally for it, but much easier to do it the other way and have JJP update 2 machines instead of trying to get code updates for hundreds of machines.

Except of course for the small matter of the hundreds of EMs that will need their backglasses redesigned to accommodate a dozen scoring reels.

Quoted from DarkWizard:

But if they just played AFM and got 100,000,000 points for plunging the ball, then mosey over to the Hobbit and get 5,000 points for a half decent attempt they will be fathoming that they did worse in the Hobbit.

Seriously? Most people with a basic grasp of how ball games work will realise that if they keep the ball in play for a while and hit the targets they're trying to hit, then they're doing well.

#36 4 years ago

If you require more zeros on the end of your score to feel good about yourself, you might want to stop looking at the scoreboard and instead spend more time taking a long hard look at yourself.

Just sayin'.

#37 4 years ago

I don't see why they don't make it an option for people to adjust as they like.

#38 4 years ago
Quoted from Circus_Animal:

Except of course for the small matter of the hundreds of EMs that will need their backglasses redesigned to accommodate a dozen scoring reels.

the thought of rebuilding 48 decagon reels (let alone 48 rat trap reels) in one shot isn't a pleasant one...

#39 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

I don't see why they don't make it an option for people to adjust as they like.

Okay...but how do you compare high scores? I scored a million on mine, but DarkWizard scored a billion on his. He wins!

Makes no sense.

#40 4 years ago

You like a low scoring pin, go buy a EM. I like the higher scores on the newer machines.

#41 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I'd like it to score even lower like an old EM.

Agreed! What Vid said.

#42 4 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Okay...but how do you compare high scores? I scored a million on mine, but DarkWizard scored a billion on his. He wins!
Makes no sense.

You can't ever really compare.

Guys will come to my house and get their all time high score on my AFM, even though they have their own at home.

Many games have crappy flippers, the wrong inclination, old dead rubber, cupped inserts, Novus instead of wax....

Even 'back in the day' when I'd deploy 4 Gorgars or 4 Black Knights side by side, fresh from the box, there would be slight differences between them.

#43 4 years ago

I like the lower scoring on WOZ as points seem more meaningful in the game. In other games a 100 million is just an average score. A 100 million seems like a crazy amount of points in general. In WOZ a million point game is a very good game.

#44 4 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Okay...but how do you compare high scores? I scored a million on mine, but DarkWizard scored a billion on his. He wins!
Makes no sense.

Can't compare anyway. When I had Tron I adjusted the ball save up. That really invalidated my scores.

#45 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Can't compare anyway. When I had Tron I adjusted the ball save up. That really invalidated my scores.

That's minor. The old pinball high scores website had columns for tilt settings and other notes. Like a long ball saver. Adding zeros isn't minor.

#46 4 years ago

I like the way WOZ scores. It's an homage to a simpler time, and it was intentional. As WOZ was being designed and built they were giving lots of thought to all kinds of things like that. Even the number plate on the ECLE is a reminder of an old school EM scoring reel. And there are probably tons of little touches in it that I don't even know after owning one for over a year. No games scoring is equivalent to another copy of that game. If a friend says he achieved some scoring goal I always understand that is on a specific game. Even moving a game can change it.

So I guess I like the lower scores of WOZ. Mine sits right next to my Demo Man, which has crazy scoring. I don't need to change either of them to know what a good score is. Just like I don't need to add zeros to me EMs to make them relate.

#47 4 years ago

It's kind of a wash isn't it? What purpose would it serve? Other than maybe make you think that you're better than you really are, but, it doesn't do that either...since someone will always win with a higher score anyway.

#48 4 years ago

I want to see consistency between manufactures. JJP needs to keep the scoring the same on The Hobbit as on Wizard of Oz. That way if you have 1 million point game on a JJP machine you know that was a pretty good score. Same holds true for Pats game that is coming soon.

#49 4 years ago

In economic terms, it is the real value versus the nominal (think Mexican pesos). When comparing performances between players in a specific game, assuming the same code, the same number of balls, the same Out lane settings, the same physical pitch, the same playfield wax/slackness/speed, and the same game settings, then the numbers mean something. When comparing scores between different games with different manufacturers in different times, the nominal numbers are absolutely irrelevant. To expect competing manufacturers to apply some sort of scoring across multiple games is at best nonsensical, and more realistically, simply naive. Even the same manufacturer (JJP) may have various motivations for the number of zeros it places behind a ramp or switch score. It is simply beyond the sophistication of the hobby to rationally compare the scoring of TH to WOZ to TWD.
I wish the pinball world could do better, but it cannot and it will not. Enjoy and embrace the games that you love and don't sweat this issue. Encourage play among the faithful and let this thread fade away.

#50 4 years ago

I'm surprised that this is so one sided. I personally don't really care for the small scoring, it doesn't fit with the rest of the game. It's like:

next gen LCD
next gen LED lighting
ground breaking animations
EM scoring?

It just doesn't fit. Yes yes scoring is all relative and what does it matter, well the first thought that comes to my head when I see my score is why does my 2015 game have a score from 1975? It makes sense on Big Juicy Mellons or something like that.

It just isn't consistent with everything else. Not that things have to be consistent, but from games after AFM till about now things are pretty consistent scoring wise, where you'd get about a million for doing nothing after 3 balls, 5 to 10 with minor success, and so on and so forth...breaking a billion on any game was a miracle for the most part. Williams/Stern shared the same path there.

So to break from that consistency, for me there has to be a reason...why? I don't get it. Why reduce the scoring into this bizarre place that no game since the EM era has had? What is there to gain? It seems like it:

a) creates initial confusion for new players
b) creates initial confusion for existing players

I don't see any positives from the move other than to be different for the sake of being different, but that's just me.

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