(Topic ID: 268845)

Opinions on old vs new pins

By Jasenwm

3 years ago


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    #1 3 years ago

    I have a few older pins Mars God of War, Haunted house, Mr mrs pacman and rescue 911 but am looking to expand my collection to new or nib ones. My concern is the new pins seem to be almost unfixable with the leds being a part of the boards where you have to replace to entire board as opposed to just changing a bulb. Do you guys tend to shy away from the new games because of they're not as easy to fix the individual parts that will eventually need replacing? Is it worth to spend the money on the newer pins looking towards the future and long term ownership?

    #2 3 years ago
    Quoted from Jasenwm:

    I have a few older pins Mars God of War, Haunted house, Mr mrs pacman and rescue 911 but am looking to expand my collection to new or nib ones. My concern is the new pins seem to be almost unfixable with the leds being a part of the boards where you have to replace to entire board as opposed to just changing a bulb. Do you guys tend to shy away from the new games because of they're not as easy to fix the individual parts that will eventually need replacing? Is it worth to spend the money on the newer pins looking towards the future and long term ownership?

    It's definitely a concern for a ways down the road. So far the fun outweighs potential repair costs. If the new boards concern you, get some stern Sam or whitestar boardset games

    #3 3 years ago

    My preference has always been older pins and a wide variety of them.
    The reasons I've shied away from newer pins (2000 and newer) is they
    are not as well built and far too expensive. Not because they are
    harder to fix. The newest pins here are
    ST:TNG and DE Simpsons plus a few other DMD pins.
    Steve

    #4 3 years ago

    You have two System 80 pins - if you can kept those running, new pins shouldn't be a challenge. (I have a Volcano myself )

    #5 3 years ago
    Quoted from zarco:

    My preference has always been older pins and a wide variety of them.
    The reasons I've shied away from newer pins (2000 and newer) is they
    are not as well built and far too expensive. Not because they are
    harder to fix. The newest pins here are
    ST:TNG and DE Simpsons plus a few other DMD pins.
    Steve

    I bought Twdle nib back in 2013. Built like a tank. Newer Sterns? Nope. Plus it was $7600 shipped.

    Did just get my MMRRE, $9995, nib. Ouch, but hey, it’s MM!

    #6 3 years ago

    Your concerns are legitimate - however the new games do offer features that you can’t get in an old game. I was worried about this for a while but finally realized that someone will come up with a way to retrofit the parts. Comet already has surface mount leds that can be plugged into a spike board if you make a connector - not perfect but workable

    #7 3 years ago

    Your counterpoint is built into the your premise, the newer technology (leds, and what have you) don't fail as nearly as often. Yes the "build quality" of the machine is chintzier than the old but the newer chassis-es are less maintenance. Like an old car vs new car, olds are easer to fix but need a little more love new ones not so much, but suck when they break. I just don't buy the new ones as much because the fun-to-expense ratio is poor compared to older games and I couldn't give a rats ass about many of the themes.

    #8 3 years ago

    The older pins just bore me to tears. I would much rather spend the extra money and deal with extra repairs. I personally don't have any nostalgia for any pins, so that sorta takes me out of the market for anything before the mid 80s.

    #9 3 years ago

    You may be opening a can of worms with this opinion thread. Older games have a HUGE following. SO many die hard guys just love their EMs for example even though they are boring as hell.
    Older machines might be easier to repair (if parts are available) but they require more repairing. Newer games need less work/maintenance. And the LED boards should outlast your ownership time. I wouldn't worry.

    I personally have owned many of the 90s classics in the past. Maintenance/repairs was just part of it. I'd buy a machine, put some time & money into making it perfect then get bored and sell it.
    Then I started buying modern new pins. Big difference! The newer pins are WAY deeper and more challenging. So much more to try and accomplish. Modes, missions, side missions. There's really no comparison.
    Yes the 80's/90's pins are fun to shoot sometimes but it's absolutely night and day from the deep rulesets of new pins.
    Case in point, I just bought a brand new MMRRE because I always wanted a Medieval Madness. Yes it's beautiful and has all the new amazing lights and the cool XL DMD, but it's STILL a 90s game with 90s rules. And it's too simple! Too easy! It won't last.

    Just my opinions.
    Junky

    #10 3 years ago

    I believe your point is made for all new tech when it's new. Haunted House was a nightmare to maintain when it was new. No internet help back in those days. I had one on location. It made good money but we eventually parted it out.

    #11 3 years ago
    Quoted from smalltownguy:

    I believe your point is made for all new tech when it's new. Haunted House was a nightmare to maintain when it was new. No internet help back in those days. I had one on location. It made good money but we eventually parted it out.

    Funny enough I have a haunted house that is giving me issues as we speak!

    #12 3 years ago

    As with anything, they both have their pros and cons. Gameplay arguments aside, there is nothing more beautiful than a vintage Stern (pick one) all light up with a beautiful mirrored backglass.

    #13 3 years ago
    Quoted from Jasenwm:

    Is it worth to spend the money on the newer pins looking towards the future and long term ownership?

    I honestly think many games are better for long term ownership than Mr/ms pacman, Rescue 911, and mars god of war.

    #14 3 years ago
    Quoted from Jasenwm:

    Do you guys tend to shy away from the new games because of they're not as easy to fix the individual parts that will eventually need replacing?

    I go both ways. Old and new. The only game I currently own that I'm concerned about the technology in it is Areosmith (SPIKE), but that game is so much fun I ignore the weak tech in it and just assume it will cost me an extra 1000 bucks while I own it. For my older "new" games like SAM games and 90s Williams games, I don't worry about it at all. If something goes wrong, I'll fix it or have it fixed. I don't consider them any harder to fix than older games after you get used to them.

    #15 3 years ago
    Quoted from DaveH:

    I go both ways.

    #16 3 years ago

    My thinking is the other way around. Most older games have seen decades of heavy use. Something always needs fixing or some attention. Many parts unobtainable. New games work flawlessly for years. Maybe an opto goes out or something needs a little tweaking.

    #17 3 years ago

    New pins have the strength of wet toilet paper. When my TAF pf's artwork holds up better than last year's Sterns....fuck that noise.

    #18 3 years ago

    My games stop at 1975 for a reason. Those are the games I remember playing as a kid. Volley is an exception. “Family Guy” is kind of an experiment to see if I want that type of game.

    #19 3 years ago
    Quoted from NPO:

    New pins have the strength of wet toilet paper. When my TAF pf's artwork holds up better than last year's Sterns....fuck that noise.

    Well yeah, but in fairness you are mentioning the company with the shittiest quality, too.

    #20 3 years ago

    If the new pins interest you then go for it. As someone previously said, the techies of the group will always find ways to fix them. As for me, if it wasn’t in an arcade it doesn’t feel legit to me. I can appreciate the technological advancement but I like machines with stories to tell.

    #21 3 years ago

    I collect things I can work on. Would never consider a spike or really anything newer than the classic period. I know the components, the general gist of the electronics and the older machines are generally more user-friendly when it comes to bulbs and maintenance.
    Everyone else figured this out 9 years ago so its rare when good machines become available for a realistic price.

    #22 3 years ago

    I love my older pins, but my Sterns, from Whitestar through Spike 2, are far less prone to needing repairs. I’m constantly having to work on my 80’s pins, mostly rebuilding connectors. Yes, Stern has a few weak points, like the new coil stops, but for the most part they’re built well and rarely give me any problems.

    #23 3 years ago
    Quoted from Doctor6:

    Well yeah, but in fairness you are mentioning the company with the shittiest quality, too.

    Unfortunately, they will get the highest amount of people showing up with money to burn......

    #24 3 years ago

    I've had games ranging from the 60s to the 2000's. The thing is if it is an older used pin, it needs to be completely gone thru and replace all worn parts, clean and adjust the switches (especially in an EM), fix troublesome connectors etc. Not just cleaning the playfield, new rubbers and fixing only what doesn't work at the present moment. I very seldom have to fix anything on my games 'cept for normal upkeep of the playfield once that is done especially if it is played in a home environment. EMs especially are incredibly reliable in the home if you 'do 'em right' to begin with.
    Hell I didn't even know newer games didn't have removeable lamps or leds, I'm a real dinosaur! But that doesn't seem like a big deal to me if they seldom burn out and I assume they aren't that difficult to fix if they did (?)

    #26 3 years ago
    Quoted from NPO:

    Unfortunately, they will get the highest amount of people showing up with money to burn......

    Stern has the license to alot of great titles so they kind of have the market cornered. I'm looking at the new jp prem, looks pretty sweet

    -1
    #27 3 years ago

    Newer games by far minus JJP. Less maintenance, deeper, faster and more fun.

    #28 3 years ago
    Quoted from PokerJake:

    Newer games by far minus JJP. Less maintenance, deeper, faster and more fun.

    You prefer the 93 version over the new jp?

    #29 3 years ago

    Older games need going through by a competent tech/enthusiast. For a lot of people in the hobby, that's part of the fun. Once you go through and bulletproof everything, they are just as reliable, if not more reliable than a newer game.

    Aside from gameplay opinions, older games can hold their own. I have had JJP, Spooky, SAM Sterns, 80s Ballys, 80s Williams, WPCs, and a Gottlieb/Williams EMs. I guess I don't get where the reliability factor becomes an issue once you honestly resolve a problem.

    If you're looking at JP2 as a new purchase, I wouldn't worry for the short term (next 5 years?) as from what I see, Stern's CS seems to be pretty good. If playfield quality is a concern for you, you might be better off buying used where you can inspect the game, vs NIB.

    #30 3 years ago
    Quoted from Jasenwm:

    You prefer the 93 version over the new jp?

    I just picked up the DE version of JP and I enjoy the Stern version more. The Stern version was just fun to play while the DE version feels clunky to me and I'm a DE fan. Kid loves the game though and my wife too. It has great sound, calls outs and a pile of rules but still shoots awkward to me.

    #31 3 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    I just picked up the DE version of JP and I enjoy the Stern version more. The Stern version was just fun to play while the DE version feels clunky to me and I'm a DE fan. Kid loves the game though and my wife too. It has great sound, calls outs and a pile of rules but still shoots awkward to me.

    Would you recommend the premium version of the new jp over the pro?

    #32 3 years ago
    Quoted from Jasenwm:

    You prefer the 93 version over the new jp?

    JJP = Jersey Jack Pinball, I love my JP Prem. I hated the '93 version, I bought one pretty much restored and it played so slow and floaty. None of the shots felt satisfying either, sold it after 3 weeks.

    #33 3 years ago
    Quoted from Jasenwm:

    Would you recommend the premium version of the new jp over the pro?

    Can't say, don't recall what version I was playing at the York show. There is things I don't like about the Stern version (cheap ass looking playfield plastics and the print quality and finish of the playfield was terrible) but it was fun as hell to shoot.

    #34 3 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Can't say, don't recall what version I was playing at the York show. There is things I don't like about the Stern version (cheap ass looking playfield plastics and the print quality and finish of the playfield was terrible) but it was fun as hell to shoot.

    The premium version has the moving t Rex head

    #35 3 years ago
    Quoted from Jasenwm:

    The premium version has the moving t Rex head

    I don't recall a moving T-Rex head, just a Jeep bash toy with a few balls attached.

    #36 3 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    I don't recall a moving T-Rex head, just a Jeep bash toy with a few balls attached.

    There’s definitely a moving T Rex head on the premium

    #37 3 years ago

    All games I enjoy, but the early 80s games are the best. Sounds, music , and beginning speech synths can't go wrong.

    #38 3 years ago

    This is only my opinion. But my opinion is I love the older games because of the sounds and the nostalgia. I love the art and the way they look. The 90s games I love for the same reason plus they have video mode which is pretty awesome. But given the choice unfortunately I would rather buy new. The reason for this is I used to have a lineup of all older games and at one point none of them worked because they always break down and I work so much on my business that I rarely had time to fix them. Never have that problem with newer games. They are always working. The older games would break down all the time on me especially the 80s Games. Then I was stuck with a room full of games I couldn't play because I didn't have time to fix them or in most cases didn't know how. I like to stick with the newer games just for maintenance purposes

    A big con to the newer games is basically no Playfield toys. Very barren playfields. The 90s era of games were loaded with toys all over the place and to interact with. When I bought my Iron Maiden I could not believe how bear the play field was and how there is literally zero toys. Not even one. Unless you consider that little Target at the back a toy? But surprisingly I don't know how Stern did it but it is an amazing game to play even with the lack of toys

    #39 3 years ago
    Quoted from Jasenwm:

    Would you recommend the premium version of the new jp over the pro?

    100% yes

    #40 3 years ago

    Hey guys! I have both, new and old machines, and all of them need some work now and them. So, my opinion is: buy the pinball machine you love, whatever its new or old.

    Just made a video about tips for buying your first machine. Hope you guys enjoy it.

    #41 3 years ago
    Quoted from Jasenwm:

    I have a few older pins Mars God of War, Haunted house, Mr mrs pacman and rescue 911 but am looking to expand my collection to new or nib ones. My concern is the new pins seem to be almost unfixable with the leds being a part of the boards where you have to replace to entire board as opposed to just changing a bulb. Do you guys tend to shy away from the new games because of they're not as easy to fix the individual parts that will eventually need replacing? Is it worth to spend the money on the newer pins looking towards the future and long term ownership?

    Are you leaning towards anything yet (or a few different options, maybe)?

    #42 3 years ago
    Quoted from QuarterGrabber:

    But surprisingly I don't know how Stern did it but it is an amazing game to play even with the lack of toys

    Two words:

    Keith

    Elwin

    #43 3 years ago
    Quoted from Daditude:

    Are you leaning towards anything yet (or a few different options, maybe)?

    I just picked up a cue ball wizard and south park. I'm looking towards going for new in the future. Possibly jurassic Park premium and or black knight pro

    #44 3 years ago

    I have games from 1979 all the way to 2019. They all need repairs from time to time. I have never found anything that was insurmountable as far as repairs go. I like having a blend of games. I would not want all new or old.

    #45 3 years ago
    Quoted from PStudart:

    Just made a video about tips for buying your first machine.

    Excellent video!

    #46 3 years ago

    Buy what you like, not what you're afraid of what might or probably wont happen. Our games go from 1978 to 2018, stern, bally, William's, d.e. and gottleib. all issues can be fixed

    #47 3 years ago
    Quoted from Jasenwm:

    I just picked up a cue ball wizard and south park. I'm looking towards going for new in the future. Possibly jurassic Park premium and or black knight pro

    If you are looking for new for the future, here are my suggestions:

    Firstly, don't buy NIB. Get a lightly used HUO game instead. You will save a lot of money, code will be updated, reviews will be in to help you better decide, you will have time to play on location or look at it being played online, and issues of the pin should be worked out by then.

    Second, be very choosy. When spending more on a newer pin, you should really do your homework and read reviews. Just because everyone lives a game, it doesn't mean you will. Conversely, if lots of people are saying similar things about it(chipping, bad code, clunky shots, etc.) then there is likely a lot of truth in it.

    Lastly, find out what you value the most. In a home setting, I really believe that them is important, variety from your other games, and depth are VERY important. Decide what you value the most and go with it.

    There are a lot of newer/newish pins I would recommend, depending on what you are in to, of course. Here are my too suggestions:

    Cgc MM, cgc MB, JP2, Jjp POTC, DP, MET, Jjp WOZ, BM66, ACNC, Jjp DI.

    If it is between JP2 and BKsor, JP2 is better by a mile...just make sure to get the premium or LE. If you must get BKsor, I wouldn't consider anything other than the LE.

    #48 3 years ago

    My opinion... I would rather have several pins than one expensive pin. Yes, the new pins have all of the toys and rules and blah blah blah... but they are also EXPENSIVE... for the price you can buy several older pins. It would be like being forced to watch the same movie all the time... sure you might like it, but it will go stale after a while. Look at how many Low Play HUO new machines are being flipped a few months after they come out. If you like newer pins, buy them used save a few $. Currently I have 5 pins... Gottlieb Jungle EM, Williams Jubilee EM, Williams Comet, Gottlieb Rescue 911 and Gottlieb Waterworld. I like the 90s Gottliebs, lots of bang for the buck. Cool toys. The rules are easy to understand and the shots are not impossible to make. But, if you dig into them and figure out the rules, there are atually a lot of modes to go through. EMs are also cheaper but a different kind of game. I think the EMs are good for a few quick games, mostly you are just going for score. They are fun to play and compete against other people. I like the variety of artwork and game styles. 1980s Solid state games are great. Go with Classics like Comet, Black Knight, Gorgar, Space Shuttle, Black Hole, Pinbot, Cyclone, even Bad Girls is cool. Look for a themes you like. If I get bored of one pin, I just play a different one (I have 5 to choose from). Even the 90s Gottlieb DMDs have enough modes to keep you busy for a while. For all of the people who bash Rescue 911, I wonder how many have actually finished a Life Force Mode.. or even Gotten to SUPER LIFE FORCE and gotten the 1 Billion bonus... Hitting the Million Shot on Comet is still awesome, and that dang dunk dummy needs to be hit in the face. Waterworld has a cool ball lock in a ship that dumps onto the playfield, and a moving habitrail ramp! My EMs I had to fix, but they were under $200 each! I would look for older games with cool features, good themes and get a cool selection of different pins from different eras. You can never go wrong with most pinballs anyway the prices will just go up.

    #49 3 years ago
    Quoted from Lathroum:

    My opinion... I would rather have several pins than one expensive pin. Yes, the new pins have all of the toys and rules and blah blah blah... but they are also EXPENSIVE... for the price you can buy several older pins. It would be like being forced to watch the same movie all the time... sure you might like it, but it will go stale after a while. Look at how many Low Play HUO new machines are being flipped a few months after they come out. If you like newer pins, buy them used save a few $. Currently I have 5 pins... Gottlieb Jungle EM, Williams Jubilee EM, Williams Comet, Gottlieb Rescue 911 and Gottlieb Waterworld. I like the 90s Gottliebs, lots of bang for the buck. Cool toys. The rules are easy to understand and the shots are not impossible to make. But, if you dig into them and figure out the rules, there are atually a lot of modes to go through. EMs are also cheaper but a different kind of game. I think the EMs are good for a few quick games, mostly you are just going for score. They are fun to play and compete against other people. I like the variety of artwork and game styles. 1980s Solid state games are great. Go with Classics like Comet, Black Knight, Gorgar, Space Shuttle, Black Hole, Pinbot, Cyclone, even Bad Girls is cool. Look for a themes you like. If I get bored of one pin, I just play a different one (I have 5 to choose from). Even the 90s Gottlieb DMDs have enough modes to keep you busy for a while. For all of the people who bash Rescue 911, I wonder how many have actually finished a Life Force Mode.. or even Gotten to SUPER LIFE FORCE and gotten the 1 Billion bonus... Hitting the Million Shot on Comet is still awesome, and that dang dunk dummy needs to be hit in the face. Waterworld has a cool ball lock in a ship that dumps onto the playfield, and a moving habitrail ramp! My EMs I had to fix, but they were under $200 each! I would look for older games with cool features, good themes and get a cool selection of different pins from different eras. You can never go wrong with most pinballs anyway the prices will just go up.

    I have a rescue 911 and cue ball wizard and I love them! Totally agree with you. I purchased both for $2,400 each and they look like new. I can't justify spending any more then $3,000 for a pinball. The new ones are nice but 5-6k imo is a shit ton of money

    #50 3 years ago
    Quoted from Lathroum:

    My opinion... I would rather have several pins than one expensive pin. Yes, the new pins have all of the toys and rules and blah blah blah... but they are also EXPENSIVE... for the price you can buy several older pins.

    This is good advice when starting out, and holds a lot less risk, but I think space ultimately becomes a bigger issue than money over a long enough collecting timeline. It's harder to find a particular game near you on the secondary market than it used to be, which contributes to the higher pricing. There's something to be said for making the most of each slot, so start working towards putting together your dream lineup however you need to get there.

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