I think you should out him! If you care about all the others on this site, I for one do not want to deal with someone that purposefully omits and takes advantage of another. After all that is what ultimately this community is for!

I looked at getting that machine also and noticed in the pics that certain area's were cut off on alot of the pics and asked seller for more but they said that theres nothing else to show and this is a steal at the price . Well something just didnt feel right so I just forgot about it it

No can do señior!! I personally don't give two terds if someone chooses to make a stupid purchase decision based off a community of gaming nerds who can't agree amongst each other as to what their terms mean. I just choose to chuckle and read about other peoples stories/mishaps instead.

hmmm ok now two people are saying that he purposefully left out all those damage pics, out him please! I don't want to have to deal with these types in our community!

I have seen machines that I would consider collector quality even though there was slight playfield wear and cabinets had some dings.
But I wouldn't know what else to call a 50+ year old machine that only looked 5 years old. Especially if it was the nicest example still in existence.

Well heres one person not to buy from. Make note to self.

noted!

I call the pics 'creative photography' on the sellers part...and its a doggone shame besides what I would say is lying about description. Happened to me w/a Bally All Star Bowler I got years ago...then was promised partial refund....God bless you...etc for over a year and nothing ever happened. Seems everybody's definition of CQ and restored condition has a wide variety of meaning.

Just happened recently w/a vintage drum set. Seller had good reputation. I called and spoke 'live' with seller...asked questions...got pics etc.(slightly creative)Seller 'doing this' for 30 years. Described as normal wear and tear for a 40+ year old kit. Rec kit and what a joke...wrap was damaged...wrong parts etc. Seller claims he didn't know. So what can you do in that case? Do they really not know or think they got away w/something. Luckily seller took it back as in communication had said "I'm sure you'll love this kit and if not I'll take it back but I was out some money to ship back and had to wait to get refunded...seems part of the chance you take.

I would also state who seller is so for any future potential buyers of pins from said seller could proceed w/caution if at all.

Best of luck to you balboarules

P.s. I think you helped me move a Fun House out of sellers basement years ago...which wasn't fun!

CQ should mean a flawless game. However while the game was misrepresented, it doesn't appear you paid a true CQ price so chalk it up to a learning experience.

I may still have our emails but it was a while ago when the price was 2600 I believe and thought that was a good deal if it's really mint but something just wasn't right . I didn't get a good feeling like I do with other purchases so I didn't even waste my time driving 6 hour round trip

I've alwas struggled with the concept personally.

A "perfect" game is pretty much impossible as far as I'm concerned. It would mean (a) fully restored (since even new games come with blemishes) (b) unplayed or vitually unplayed (since even a low amount of plays will cause some wear), and (c) absolutely no damage from transport and assembly. I really can't see that many games falling into this category.

I presume that most games accurately labeled as "collector quality" have some minor imperfections, and have been played, but not much. No significant wear and no damage beyond very minor things seems like the more realisitic definintion.

Most games listed as "collector quality" don't seem to even meet the more relaxed definition.

I don't get the idea of buying a game and not playing it anyway. If I bought a collector quality game, it would not be that way for very long since you can bet I'd put a few thousand plays on it.

It's only my opinion, man..... But, 2300 if the game only has cosmetic issues around the back outside of the cab is still a really good deal on that title.

Sucks he was calling it CQ and did some creative photography.. that blows... But yea... Price wasn't too bad in all honesty.

Actually this is a good sign. It now looks like all my games are 'Collector Quality.' In some cases..even better!

Earlier in the thread he says he has a broken ramp that isn't re-produced.

I agree with this....he clearly misrepresented the condition.....but really his price was not way out of line for the actual condition.

$2300 is not what I would call the CQ price anyway.

Another pinsider went to look at it before looking at my TSPP. I'm curious if he saw the issues too.

Sorry you got Choggarded dude...

Uh huh.

That's why you've made about 5 posts begging for a "consensus" to out the guy.

No horse in this race but if you are gonna out the guy, "own it," don't do it because you think you have the support of the mob (who never, in the history of the internet, has opposed "outing" anyone or anything.)

Really sorry to hear this Balboa. I don't know him but I certainly know not to deal with him. He was deceptive in the transaction for sure. Is he on here?

I think I saw this game. I don't remember seeing the broken ramp, but I may have just missed it. The sound issue (crackling speakers) when you first turn it on was not in any of the descriptions, but I got to experience it first hand...right then and there I knew his "Collector Quality" claim was bunk.

As other have said, most of us have been a part of bad deals where pins were not as described. I got screwed with a TAF that had so much wear and a mansion decal that the seller never even told me about. Lost money on that one...

Collector Quality is such a BS term anyhow. It means different things to different people. I am a collector, but my quality is some minor blemishes don't bother me.

Definitely not "collector quality" but in my opinion was a fair price at $2300. The guy selling it seemed like a nice guy to me. Sorry that he has not been kind to deal with post sale...

It kinda had that smell to it. I hope it wasnt him.

Ok... Damn. I'm sorry for posting without being better informed. I traded a players condition Funhouse for an exceptionally nice Batman Forever - and I thought the trade to be equitable.

I agree that it seems you got "chogardded", but I guess my point is, you aren't out too terribly bad in the grand scheme of things. Being able to fix these issues yourself sure did help, but it would have really sucked for someone who couldn't to have been stuck with this machine.

I don't disagree that this guy should be "outed".

I can't understand why you would clean out emails like this in a day of limitless storage.

I have every email I've ever sent or received in my gmail account since the day I started it many, many years ago.... I'm pretty much always at 40% capacity.

People wanted me to out someone once, and maybe I should have, but I decided against it. I figured it was between me and the guy who wronged me and I didn't need to make a spectacle.

The guy you bought the BF doesn't seem to be active enough that outing him would do much good.

So can we all agree the issues in the pictures provided shouldnt be on a QC pin?

So here it is:

Collector Quality Condition -- Condition in which most collectors would be happy with.

Condition in which most collectors would be happy with -- An existing machine in a collector's lineup providing personal or party entertainment any given night.

Don't forget, this merchandise is FUNCTIONAL. Don't let the eye-candy factor interfere with the total enjoyment package! Many have said my collection is, "Very nice." Had I've been asked, I'd be the first to tell you there are flaws in every game, and haven't bothered to correct them in years. For the price of an occasional cleaning and rubber, I couldn't tell you how many hours of fun my family and friends have received. I'm sure many others could say the same thing, so where then do you draw the line between enjoyment and preservation?

If condition is so important, why aren't more of you guys buying NIB? We're not talking Ferrari's.......

You clearly want to out him. So why do you need our approval?

Besides, did you really think anybody here would say, "naw, we don't want to hear who it is." This place LIVES for drama.

besides, I've been trashed by people here before it ain't the worst thing in the world. Do what you want, bro.

And yeah, CQ is a very vague term but to me it means "super super nice." I've never bought a game advertised as such though so I don't know the joy or disappointment.

Ohhhh I'm sure there's one or two reasons out there.

Even you Levi?

If you've never pissed anybody off here or on RGP you aren't doing it right.

I'm so glad I can't see Levi's comments anymore. My imagination is running wild on what dumb thing he said.

OK man I can dig it. Not sayin a bad word about you you are cool it just seemed like you were dancing around this one. I think it's good that you took the high road personally. The guy probably should have just offered you a couple hundred bucks but maybe you'll at least get that apology.

HUO isn't a condition, it's a description of its history (and often a dubious one, sure).

Congrats, this is easily one of the stupidest things I've read on this forum.

And I've read about 90% of Kaneda's posts

i wonder if there's terms/standards in the "coin collector" market that we can draw from for pinball?

wow... look at this level of detail they use:
http://www.pcgs.com/grades/

i don't think you are using the same definition of "Collector Quality" as the majority here. Most pinsiders seem to assume Collector Quality means "without flaw, both cosmetically and mechanically", somewhere equal to or above mint condition, which is pretty different from what you are saying.

I'd say Collector Quality is like the "over-restored" grade in cars. That's where the car is rebuilt using reproduction parts that are of higher quality, and the assembly and painting is done to a standard far above factory.

So, only something that has been restored by a collector to better-than-new standards would qualify.

In decreasing order:

Collector Quality -> NIB -> Restored HUO -> HUO -> Shopped -> Routed -> Parts

again, i don't think HUO is a condition, it's just a description of where it's been. a HUO game could be great or it could be trashed. it's not really part of the condition scale in my opinion.

In my opinion, you have a certain responsibility to "out" him. Whether it's conscious or not, dealing with Pinsiders (maybe I'm alone here) provides a certain degree of confidence and trust. When a Pinsider selling a pin breaks that trust and gets away with it (not outed) then as a whole, the community suffers. If it gets to the point that dealing with a Pinsider is no better than dealing with an eBayer then we all lose.

look were all collectors in a way and in no terms should "collector quality" define what it should be! How can it, we all have different definitions as it is. You have a machine, you have a price, and certain quality you should expect for that price you pay. This is subjective and should be decided by seeing in person or if not possible as many pictures you can get to determine if the price is what your willing to buy it for based on your own "definitions". If someone leaves out pictures that deceives your decision on price vrs condition, then shame on them and they should be outed. It looks like here the condition does kinda match the price however still not cool holding back the pictures that might have put this price and condition in a different 'definition" to the purchaser. yea I re read makes sense!

It's a form of the "only driven on Sundays" or "Garage-kept" conditions in that it implies that it got limited use in a controlled environment and wasn't moved around a lot to different locations.

It isn't technically correct but a HUO game is more likely to be nice vs. a routed machine.