Replay = AAB =

Ken

I was a pinball addict from NJ in the 60's. When I had to go on vacation with my family to Lake George, NY & play add a balls, I felt like a junkie taking methadone. Add a balls might be more desirable to collectors because less were produced. As far as I know, they were all designed from the replay versions to reduce the total manufacturing cost & conform to the laws in certain jurisdictions that prohibited replays.

I'm sorry that I did not clearly answer the OP's question. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if there were add a ball games that were designed specifically as add a balls, I believe Palace Guard was a second thought to Royal Guard. I am very familiar with Royal Guard (one of Gottlieb's greatest) & can't remember if I ever even saw a Palace Guard. If I had access to a Palace Guard nearby, I would gladly look it over, but my gut feeling is that it subtracts from Royal Guard. I hope that you hear from somebody that can give you a real honest answer.

Sure there are a whole bunch of them in the 60s that were not designed with a replay alternative in mind. The Gottlieb Flipper series. Flipper, Flipper Clown, Flipper Cowboy, Flipper Fair, Flipper Parade... Based on Flipper Cowboy, Buckaroo did come later but it was the modified ruleset this time around. There were quite a few Williams reverse wedgeheads too. Friendship 7, Palooka, Swing Time, Vagabond. I probably missed a couple.

Replay guys love to convince themselves that AAB is only an afterthought. We all have our bias but in my experience some are better than others comparatively. We've all been through this...

I had Royal Guard for a short time and really enjoyed it. I would be so bold as to say that among the Gottliebs I owned it was my favorite player. It sneaks up on you with it's simple but challenging gameplay. It's tough but beatable (on occasion) and very addicting. I have never played Palace Guard but I would suspect this game translates nicely from the replay version. It's tough enough that winning a chance at making a comeback is probably exhilarating. A few of the Gottlieb AAB games I've owned tended to give it away a bit too easily. I doubt that's true with Palace Guard. It's still going to have those killer slings and outlanes.

i've only played royal guard as I had one for a short time. It was a lot of fun. If it would have been a 4 player game, I would have kept it.

A collector friend of mine has both, both currently in storage. He is a huge single player, replay fan. But he says that Palace Guard is better than RG. And he loves RG... I'm not a AAB fan, so I can't make a judgement, but to be better than RG, Wow!

Looks a fun player.

HITTING SNAP TARGETS LIGHTS CORRESPONDING POP
BUMPERS AND TARGETS.
EACH TIME PLAYER LIGHTS ALL TARGETS OR ALL POP
BUMPERS 1 ADDITIONAL BALL IS RECEIVED.
SNAP TARGETS SCORE 50 POINTS.
EACH TIME A-B-C-D-E ROLLOVERS ARE HIT PLAYER RECEIVES 1
ADDITIONAL BALL.
POINTS ARE SCORED AS INDICATED.

Looks like about six Pinsiders own one if you want to send them a pm asking for opinion on game play. The closest one to you is on location at Tim Arnold's PHOF.

I've owned both. I prefer Palace Guard by a mile.

Hit either row of 4 snap targets for an extra ball. Hit A-E on top for an extra ball (no need to hit "C" last). The bottom outlanes and center drain are also A-E switches to help build extra balls.

Scoring is more balanced, as there are no 500 point shots. Hitting snap targets either light 10 point pop bumpers or 100 point upper targets. It makes the pop bumper area much more valuable.

It's a classic GTL add-a-ball where you can be on your last ball, terrible score, and have a great ball and build back up a few balls and end up with a great score. You are never out of the game. On Royal Guard, hit the wrong letter on top or miss a 500 point exit and you're pretty much screwed.

Yeah, The 500 pt lit drain has always bothered me. Adds too much luck into the score. And always benefits my wife.

Rat_Tom: I'm off Cannon Rd... If your ever back in the hood, swing come on over.

Funny... I also lived in Rancho Bernardo... lost the garage/house/pins in 2007 wild fire, seen below then moved to CB.

To tie this back into the Royal Guard thread... I lost a RG in the fire, and now have another... Love it!

DSC04164.JPG

That's what makes Royal Guard a tough game.

It's very possible, either by a bounced flipper shot or the pop bumpers, to collect some of those upper letters with other than a plunger shot. It's a good idea sometimes to not just bang away at the snap targets, especially if you've got some of the upper targets lit for 100 points. Sometimes the ball will go up there, right through one of the lanes, and come down through another, and you've collected two of them without a plunger shot at all. Many times I've had all of them but the C lit for the third plunger shot. You can collect three specials if you're good with the plunger shot.

I think it's a great game. Very underrated. I completely restored mine and while it's tough to say never, it would be really, really hard for me to sell it. It was my first complete restoration, and it's a great player to go with it. It can be a drain monster at time, but if you can get the specials lit on the fan targets, you can rack up some games.

Although I live in the add-a-ball land of Wisconsin, I spent a good part of my youth around replay games. Royal Guard was one tough game to beat (and I considered myself a pretty good player). I almost never won a game on score (4500 was the first replay) - always on the snaps or A-E feature. We moved back to Wisconsin - and I hated add-a-balls. It wasn't until I played Palace Guard that I really appreciated the difference. I could score points!

Now, I gravitate toward add-a-balls. To me, it makes more sense to extend a game at home than to win games that are already free.

yup... that sums it up...

aab guys will likely prefer palace guard...
replay guys will likely prefer royal guard...

my royal guard is going nowhere anytime soon...

yes, we do...

however, just like the colorado river made the grand canyon, you are slowly eroding my aversion to aab's...

That's extremely high for the first level. I think 3600 is the factory recommended level, and that's where mine is at. Second level is 4200.

If you score 5000 on this game you're had a really, really good game. It just side drains too easy to keep the ball in play a long time.

I think my highest score on it is right near 7000 and I've only done that one. I've only gotten over 6000 just a handful of times. Most games, even winners, end in the 4000 range.

Dimension is similar to a Target Pool but different. Both great games.

I find the whole "replay/AAB" debate to be a little moot when it comes to these older titles. Palace Guard isn't a "WOW" game meaning you aren't gonna rack up as many balls as on a later machine like Pop A Card.

I wouldn't worry too much about which title you ended up with if your are looking for that particular model. Just get the one in the right place/price.

The one thing I have found about AAB games is what I might not care for in DMD games. Extremely long games/ball times. Maybe I'm just not used to it or I have short attention span theater disease, but playing on and on for one game gets a little dull for me.

I never played AAB games as a kid-we didn't have them around. Really, the PHOF is the first place I played many of them. I was playing one and I just kept adding balls and frankly, after awhile, I was just ready to leave the machine for someone else to play the rest of the balls.

I would suppose that is from a lifetime of playing replay games but I just never found them real compelling to play.

That's true. Some of them can give it away too easily. But don't judge them all based on playing one or two titles. Some titles are very challenging and winning an added ball is a thrill.

I agree whole heartily. most AAB did not make the transition from replay very well. they were just to easy IMO but there are quite a few that are far superior. and a few that are neck & neck

as I got a chance to play more AAB games I am finding those hidden treasures.

I too am "experimenting" with aab's and now have a Dimension, Captain Card, and Pop a Card. If you're born and raised on replays like myself you have to have an open mind when it comes to these.......

You should add Melody to the top of that list. 60's Gottlieb 2' flipper game that sing unlike any other game and has a terrific rule set.

Marcus

it is well known how much i want a sing along, but i would be more than willing to dip my toe into the aab waters with a melody instead...

Yea, I grew up in replay-land as well, but since I got into the hobby here in NY,currently have a Dimension in line for restoration. In the past, have owned-Captain Card, Bank Shot, Pro Pool, Pin-Up, Flipper Pool, Blast Off, and World Series. Wow!, didn't realize that many AAbs have been here! I still prefer replay games, but sometimes AAbs are a nice change of pace. (have a Lucky Hand apart right now for someone else's restoration). Back on topic here, there has been a Palace Guard on CL somewhat local (2 1/2 hours away) that has been listed for weeks. Starting to wonder if I should make the guy an offer with all the love it gets on this thread! (Oh and a PaC too!)

even though i am a die hard replay guy, i'm going to give in and add an aab sooner or later... i gotta be fair and give one an honest shot...

i think that making an offer on that palace guard would be a good idea...

While I'm not really an AAB guy, it would be kind of cool to have a RG and a PG next to each other. Of course, that would probably lead to the question of "why do you have the same game" and the explanation that they really aren't the same wouldn't probably fly.

I almost bought a Flipper Parade once, but I just didn't like it well enough for what he wanted. Lots of restoration on it was needed too.

^^^

i think that would be cool as well... i wouldn't get any complaints from a looks standpoint, but it would eat too much of my limited space to do it...

Well, too bad you missed the two I've sold the last couple of years. Still have one nice one though.

For a short time I had Drop-A-Card and Pop-A-Card. I could see having both in a large collection. They were different enough that it was like a completely different game. Both were fun but I preferred PAC.

darn...

well, if another one should happen to show up, you know where to find me...

the drops reset on PAC, don't they, but not on DAC? I've got a DAC on the restore list. Great artwork on that one.

Yes, the individual banks reset on PAC.

And the stand-up targets above the left and right outlanes award a wow if either bank of targets down low is completed. So, you have 6 places to light a wow. 4 places to light a special on DaC.

Both good games.

I've never played Majorettes or Palace Guard but I own Dimension and Capt Card and they're both great players. Both have great art and plenty of drop targets. It took me a long while to find those two but definitely worth it. Of the two, Dimension is my favorite and would be my first choice out of the 4 you listed.

Thanks. Actually my first pin was a Mini Pool and from there I had both replays and AABs. I didn't play pinball growing up so I didn't have a preference for either style. As I played and experienced more pins I gravitated to AABs because it made more sense to me but I get that replays frequently have better rulesets and there's plenty of replays I'd love to own.
The Sea Ray plays great. I picked it up a couple hours from here-it had been on CL for a long time. Got it home and put new pop bumper caps on it, replaced all the cool sleeves, cleaned the score reels/mechs and the stepper units and full flipper rebuild kits. I surprisingly found a complete set of replacement plastics for it. The originals seemed as if the ink had evaporated. The flipper coils were mismatched so it now has new coils.
The game play is fun and it's great to build the bonus up during play but frustrating in a good way when the ball drains because the bonus resets.On my Expressway the bonus remains at whatever level until it's collected.