since the current market is dominated by collectors and enthusiasts, it seems that creating a wider appeal to operators is the route to take if you want to grow the market.

stern is the driving force behind pinballs survival, they were around when it was big, when it fell, and even now. therefore im inclined to believe they have a better idea of which direction the market needs to take to expand, rather than the opinion of collectors who have really hindered the market by steering it mostly towards their own interests, and have kept pinball machines out of the public eye.

i personally dont care if the pinball industry grows a billion dollars next year if that means all the machines are designed to stay in the home of individual collectors. id rather see growth in public interest than growth in $$$. i prefer to play machines on route anyway as i somehow feel that is the essence of pinball. could be just me though!

I agree. The local operator I talk to, says there is no point for him to buy new Sterns to put on location.
He believes Sterns are too cheap now quality wise as well.
His old Bally Williams games earn just as much and some more than new Sterns.
So the cost is not worth the risk, at least not in his mind.
Especially when the WMS/Bally pins paid for themselves when they were new. Sometimes within a few weeks- months in the 90's
Now its just maintaince and collect the money. Nothing to try to recoup.

Gonna read now. Thanks for the link.

in my opinion, every machine kept in a house is a missed opportunity to expose the general public to the world of pinball.

The answer really depends on which country you're analyzing.

According to Nate Shivers on a recent Coast2Coast Pinball Podcast, during an interview with Gary Stern, Gary told him that 70% of Stern's market in the US is collectors and enthusiasts buying for home use, and 95% of Stern's market in Italy is operators buying for location play.

Disagree. That machine isn't going to just appear in a location because it's not in somebody's home: it will either get dumped or warehoused if it's an old machine, or never get made if it's a new Stern (thereby putting their manufacturing economics at risk).
Pinball just ain't that popular amongst the general public that we're ever going to see thousands of machine on location again. It's a niche and not the cash cow it might once have been.
Ps I'm not a 'collector' and play on location at least 4 times a week.

Put me firmly in the camp of "Enthusiasts Growing Pinball". Route pinball in this area is going extinct. I live in a rural, but very touristy area. Very busy in the summer months. Local ops make there money off illegal video gambling machines. Last new pin purchased in area was a LOTR (2003).
Typical routed pin in this area is a poorly maintained, badly neglected T2/MSF/SP/R&B,FT with weak flippers, broken parts, and its often a 50/50 proposition you'll finish a game before the machine buckles.

I have several friends that are considering purchase of a pin for there home. The biggest fears/obstacles......initial cost & lack of pin techs in the area.

Can't it be both?

its not about seeing thousands of machines everywhere, its about that every machine has potential to be the one that turns someone into a pinhead. if all people ever do is look to how great the past was, we might miss what it could be. the pinball industry should take baby steps to ensure growth rather than think its only options are where it is now (just above dead) or where it was then (massively popular).

It's not one or the other. Pinball as a hobby needs both collectors and operators. Most non-pinheads won't go into a pub and play the pinball machine in the corner, and if they do, they won't understand what they're doing (the rulesets of most modern games are impenetrable to a casual player) and will walk away after one game.

What WILL get new people playing pinball is having a few free games at a mate's house with the owner present to explain the rules. Next time they see a game on location they are more likely to put in a dollar or two and have a basic understanding of the game objectives. This helps keep the operator in business and gives casual and serious players alike the chance to try different games.

In short: collectors introduce new players to the game, operators give them a chance to explore it. In the current climate, neither could exist without the other.

I have been in the hobby for 5 years and I just entered my first pay tournament last night. I was pleasantly surprised to see so many other people out to support it. I live in a smaller city with very limited location machines. About 6-8 months ago a local venue opened up that has about 15 professional dart boards, 2 pool tables, and 3-4 pinball machines at any given time. They also have a very cool club and cocktail lounge in the downstairs with live music just about every night.

Anyhow there were about 20ish people who were in the pinball tournament. I knew a few people from the area but the majority were complete strangers. In between rounds we were all drinking beer and socializing over pinball and the games. Just about everyone there was very very amateur and had no idea how to score big points on any of the games. These people just liked the competition and the atmosphere that the pinball machines made.

After playing a few games I found out that I am decent...at least compared to the average non owner of a pinball machine I was telling people about how I have been into pinball for 5 years but never entered an official tournament before. They all looked at me like I was crazy. Well I am kinda crazy for having so many different machines over the last handful of years. These people were super excited to learn about people like all of us on pinside that have such a deep passion for this hobby. I was telling them about some of the great machines and how we modify the hell out of them. I personally like working on the games just about as much as playing them.

The games on site were Avatar, The Walking Dead pro, and Funhouse. All of the other players thought they were awesome games and didn't care that they weren't 8000 dollar machines. Even avatar was fun in a tournament setting.

So my point is there seems to be plenty of people who just love to play on location and tournaments. If they are exposed in any way possible I believe that pinball could make a mainstream comeback to locations everywhere. I will certainly try to make it back to the tournament to support the local pinball effort, drink some good beer, and hang with some regular non owner pinheads! It's a whole new world of pinball for me with this aspect

Enthusiasts are the people becoming the new operators in many places which is good because they care about how the game plays, not just about coin drop. Most old-school ops dropped pinball years ago in favor of cheaper and lower-maintenance electronic machines.

Pinball will never be as big publically as it once was. There are too many other ways that people are entertained (mostly with the phones these days).

For most people, I imagine their opinion about this is based on: whether there is good location play in their area, and whether they support those locations.

People who have good locations, and play there - they see the growth there. Those who don't will only see people introduced to pinball in their basements.

Does this operator only have a few machines here and there? I probably wouldn't buy new Sterns for locations with just one pin. Out here, all the ops get the new machines to bring back their existing players to their destination venues (places with 5+ machines). But the older games do as well too in most cases. It's not like Stern can magically make some game that starts earning twice as much as Addams Family. That won't happen unless we see huge growth of brand new players in pinball - players who have no nostalgia.

In my area, it seems more common to introduce new people to pinball in a bar over a few drinks. (Probably because there are great locations). The pool of people who can introduce others to pinball isn't just limited to those that already have machines in their basement.

When I go to parties hosted by pinheads - 90% of the people are the same no matter whose house it is. Location play is where I meet new people...people who just need a little nudge to send them down the rabbit hole.

I do think both are important. But locations are more important for growing the player base.

I bet a well done Stern Steve Ritchie Star Wars machine would give some serious competition to TAF! A huge well known theme along with a great game would have everyone talking and buying.

I like TAF, but seriously games like AC/DC, Metallica and Tron put TAF to bed for gameplay.

Yeah, the new games are much more advanced in terms of gameplay, but hundreds of thousands of people played the 21,000 TAFs on locations in the 90's. They still want to play it today.

I try to grow the hobby as both a collector and a hobby operator. I can say 100% that by putting games out on route we have begun to build a local community around those games and many of those players are now becoming collectors. It feel great to help grow something I love and enjoy so much!

That is awesome! I want to put a couple games out at local business but it seems complicated with contracts and liability insurance. I certainly put money in any games I see in the wild.

It IS very compliacted but it is also a fun learning experience.

Do not plan to make much money (per hour you will likely make very little plus you will be putting thousands of dollars worth of games out), but you will get paid hansomly in great life expereinces, likely some new friends, and lots of knowledge.

My advice would be mainly around:
1. Find a location that you can have 4 pins at minimum (Time is valuable so going to 1 location is good). 4 pins is enough to run monthly events and start building a community of players.
2. Find a location that is CLOSE to where you work and/or live. You want to maintain good playing machines which means you will be there on a regular basis (a couple hours each week is typical, some weeks it will be way more) so be close to your normal routine of driving/travel so it is not a hassle to free a stuck ball at 11pm on a tuesday.
3. Remind yourself on a regular basis that this is all about the fun and not about a business.
4. Put every penny you make back in to the venture

An aside but I suggest finding some friends you trust and enjoy hanging with to do it with you. If you can find some guys that are all on the same page and have the same desires then working on hobby operating is less stressfull and more fun.