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(Topic ID: 113848)

Opinion: adult-themed topics should be in a private sub-forum

By bkerins

9 years ago

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845 posts
153 Pinsiders participating
Latest reply 9 years ago by Xerico
Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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#55 9 years ago

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Razorbak86

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9y 89,300 2,069

Bowen, have you ever visited the Netherlands? If you have, you probably know that there is a HUGE cultural difference between the U.S. and the Netherlands towards sex, nudity, and gender equality.

As you know, Robin is Dutch, so not surprisingly, given his cultural background, he chose to implement a rather unique, more tolerant, but arguably more balanced, "Tilt!" mechanic for new users to set on their profiles specifically to address some of your concerns. If used properly, it provides a reasonable filter against the kind of content that you noted.

Is the "Tilt!" mechanic on Pinside perfect? No, nothing ever is on the Internet. However, I think it is pretty good, and much better than the more extreme measures on either side of the tolerance scale used on most other Internet forums.

JMHO.

TILTed post. Sign in to be able to view TILTed posts.

#349 9 years ago

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Razorbak86

Pinside member

9y 89,300 2,069

Quoted from goatdan:
Here is my one suggestion that Robin could do that would potentially serve both sides - if a thread, throughout the thread, has more than X tilt warnings, then that thread automatically isn't shown unless you are signed in and have it as one of your preferences to see threads that include more than X tilt warnings.

Why? The tilted posts are already tilted. Why do you need to make the entire thread invisible, when the rest of the thread may contain worthwhile content?

For example, say someone posts a very helpful tech thread with a lot of useful information, and 4 months later, on page 19, another Pinsider uploads a funny t&a pic that riff off of a previous comment and tilts the post, as Robin has encouraged. (We all know that kind of stuff NEVER happens on Pinside, right?) If you're logged in but have a low tilt setting, you'll never see that useful tech thread, even though the tilted post is already hidden to your profile.

#365 9 years ago

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Razorbak86

Pinside member

9y 89,300 2,069

Quoted from alveolus:
But isn't the whole point to protect the do-gooders from posts that do-gooders find questionable? For the rest, they can just check the "show tilted posts/threads" box and all is well.

Actually, that is NOT the whole point of this thread. I suggest you re-read Bowen's opening post.

#430 9 years ago

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Razorbak86

Pinside member

9y 89,300 2,069

OP
Quoted from bkerins:
Thousands of new players are starting to play pinball, and presumably that means a lot of new people visiting Pinside. Does what they see here represent pinball positively or negatively? How many of them give up on the pinball community because of what they encounter in this forum?

Bowen, I understand your concern, but please humor me for a minute. Log out of Pinside, and then read back through this thread. Then log back in and change your Tilt settings to not see any posts with at least 1 Tilt warning, and read back through the thread again. Then come back to this thread and give us your reaction to both scenarios. Does the Tilt mechanism make any difference? If it does, then that might help you qualify your recommendation to new Pinside viewers (i.e., women, men, young, and old alike).

#445 9 years ago

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Razorbak86

Pinside member

9y 89,300 2,069

Quoted from wiredoug:
im offended that vids pic of the 'modern confident' lady playing juicy melons was tilted.

You should probably start by talking to Vid, since he tilted the post himself.

#450 9 years ago

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Razorbak86

Pinside member

9y 89,300 2,069

Quoted from wiredoug:
Yeah.Poor bloke is probably too scared of witchhunters.
For the record ...I was making the point .. not having a moral crusade

Don't worry. I'm not passing judgment. Just pointing out that Vid self-Tilted the post, like he does on a bunch of his other posts, as per Pinside policy. I'm sure Robin appreciates that.

#452 9 years ago

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Razorbak86

Pinside member

9y 89,300 2,069

Quoted from RonB:
Well....we all have to walk on eggshells now, so he didn't want to offend anyone. Oh wait, now you're offended, what do we do now?!

I suggest he click "unhide this post".

#471 9 years ago

SMW

Razorbak86

Pinside member

9y 89,300 2,069

Quoted from RonB:
Alright, in keeping with this new "family-friendly Pinside" model, I propose a new format for posting pics and gifs in addition to tilting, I call it the "Bowen-Blocker".

Quoted from GetTheJackpot:
» YouTube video

Can we please not turn this into a "Bash Bowen" thread?

Bowen posted a thoughtful opinion in the opening post, and concluded with the words, "Thanks for listening to my opinion." He then clarified that he hopes his opinion "carries just as much weight as anyone else's, and no more."

Robin soon responded, saying "Great points, Bowen. I can't say I disagree with your opinion..." but then said, "Again, as with many challenges, the answer lies in the power of the community. Instead of me and a small group of moderators dictating what is reasonable and what is not (which is pretty much un-doable with the sheer number of posts these days), the community should basically moderate itself in a way."

Unfortunately, people are now attacking or ridiculing Bowen personally. Yes, Bowen participates in pinball tournaments for money. Duh! Most current and former PAPA World Champions do. Nevertheless, he also does a lot of volunteer work for PAPA, providing color commentary during tournaments, and making helpful videos about gameplay strategies for specific pins. (I imagine there is other charity work that he performs that we'll never know about, just like with many other Pinside members.)

Bottom line: I'd rather have a Pinside WITH Bowen than WITHOUT Bowen, and if this "Bash Bowen" trend continues, he may just leave altogether, like several of his friends have already done.

Thanks in advance for your consideration.

#475 9 years ago

SMW

Razorbak86

Pinside member

9y 89,300 2,069

Quoted from RonB:
Apparently not many, based on these numbers from Robin about 3 weeks ago:
"At the end of November, there are 24,208 "real "Pinside accounts. That's the number of activated, non-blocked/banned/frozen/dupe accounts.
Of those 24,208:
...13,330 Pinsiders logged on in the past 365 days
...5,977 Pinsiders logged on in the past 30 days (of those, 3,440 have made at least one post on the forum.)
...4,456 Pinsiders logged on in the past week (of those, 1,984 have made at least one post on the forum.)
This year we have had between 7 and 35 new signups per day (depending on the day).
As for new signups, this is the table:
2001: 1 Pinsider signed up
2002: 8 Pinsiders signed up
2003: 572 Pinsiders signed up
2004: 677 Pinsiders signed up
2005: 379 Pinsiders signed up
2006: 228 Pinsiders signed up
2007: 214 Pinsiders signed up
2008: 380 Pinsiders signed up
2009: 883 Pinsiders signed up
2010: 650 Pinsiders signed up
2011: 2164 Pinsiders signed up
2012: 5411 Pinsiders signed up
2013: 6449 Pinsiders signed up
2014: 6473 Pinsiders signed up (and counting!)"

Question: How many of those Pinsiders do you think are women?

Here's a clue from one of our own moderators, blondetall, who obviously IS a woman...

Quoted from blondetall:
I honestly don't know if these are the "girls of pinball" because I can count on one hand the number of active women here, both hands if we count the occasional posters and lurkers. The rest don't bother to show up. I personally know of two women who have left the forum recently because of bullying. I've gotten report after report asking what to do about the sexism here.
And those of us that do continue to hang out in this boy's club are pretty lax and understand that boys will be boys and it's mainly a man's sport. We know that if we say anything at all that can possibly be twisted into a sexual manner, it will be. We roll our eyes and let it slide for the most part, occasionally reminding people that we're human too. There's even a couple of Pinsde females brave enough to post pictures of themselves here, and more power to them. But after having a few nasty comments directed specifically at me, having a few forum members stalk me/go through my posted pictures/edit/post them to purposely embarrass me, and seeing the way that you all comment on any woman that isn't model perfect... I refuse to post any personal pictures here now. I also purposely hid from cameras at the couple of pinball expos I've gone to, and won't be attending the Chicago Expo and on stage with the rest of the moderators. I guarantee you that I don't speak for all "girls of pinball," but this thread is a really good example of why you aren't going to get any of us to volunteer to pose for one.

#478 9 years ago

SMW

Razorbak86

Pinside member

9y 89,300 2,069

Quoted from RonB:
Ummm, man this is tough, under 10?

"Is that your FINAL answer?"

Haha. Don't worry. Just a rhetorical question.

#499 9 years ago

SMW

Razorbak86

Pinside member

9y 89,300 2,069

Quoted from bstyles:
In my 30 years of traveling the world and seeing how other cultures act, I can safely say:
Americans are such prudes!
Seriously, how many of you neophytes have ever spent more than a couple weeks outside North America getting exposed to the progressive, mature cultures around the rest of the globe?
(rhetorical questions - answer to yourself, because I already know your answer).

I am an American citizen by birth, and I have lived abroad for 5 years in 4 different countries and traveled to 28 others on 4 continents. I used to carry two passports. One was frequently being processed for a visa request at a foreign embassy while the other was being carried on my person on a business trip to another country. One of my trips lasted 6 weeks, totaled $32,000 in reimbursable expenses from 6 different currencies, and returned me home to London, England on a 12 hour flight from Hong Kong. I used to walk 6 blocks to work at 7:00 AM in 115 deg F temperatures in Dubai. My daughter was born in Scotland. During a 6-month stint in Port-au-Prince, Haiti, I learned to speak Creole.

Any other "rhetorical" questions?

passports.jpg

#522 9 years ago

SMW

Razorbak86

Pinside member

9y 89,300 2,069

Quoted from Curtis_Playfield:
"This is a men's site! Face it, pinball is for men too. Pinball is all about sexy babes with hot bods, they're all over almost every game ever made, and that's how it'll always be because sex sells! Sometimes I buy a game and think to myself "damn dude, you gotta sex this thing up" and I buy a translite to pop on there with some naked broads on it because that's way sexier. Women? Pffft I love women, I love their tits and I like to post a bunch of sexy babe pics all day to impress my buds, get some laughs and thumbs up.
Women in real life should either appreciate my attitude or they're just ugly ass prudes who will never find a man! The internet is COVERED in imagery more sexist than my endless titty pics; if your kid doesn't like it then you are a bad parent. I love women, posting greased up booby pics of them is one if my constitutional rights, so I refuse to engage in any rational discourse regarding a suggestion that I'm offending anyone, that's a slippery slope!
What we have here is one squeaky wheel, and a few other typical Americans who are too prudish to get that this pinball site is going to be 80% boob pics no matter what. Sexist content is sexy, and should be shown more respect than women themselves. Why are we even still having this conversation you prudes?"
Did I get close there?

Umm, close... but you missed this little nugget...

Quoted from FrederikFrost:
On the topic of women...
Can anyone tell me why we should cater to people that are a strong minority here?
I agree that we shouldn't exclude anyone, and expanding is great... But who are we really trying to please?

So TECHNICALLY, because you're part of the 0.15% minority here, we probably shouldn't be catering to you, much less nominating you for moderator status. I don't know how blondetall ever got appointed. She probably slipped Robin a Mickey and forged his name on the approval line of her moderator application.

On a more serious note, thanks for chiming in. Maybe you can get some of the other 0.15% to comment as well?

#562 9 years ago

SMW

Razorbak86

Pinside member

9y 89,300 2,069

Quoted from FrederikFrost:
What??

Don't worry. I didn't mean anything I said in those first two paragraphs. It was a parody post, similar to Curtis_Playfield's post, riffing off of other prior posts. That's why I added the "winking" and "sarcasm" smilies, which never get copied when quoted.

The only part I truly meant was the last paragraph. I appreciated Curtis_Playfield chiming in, and I wish other women would chime in, too. I'm glad she is here, and I'm glad blondetall is here, too. IMO, blondetall is an EXCELLENT moderator.

#682 9 years ago

SMW

Razorbak86

Pinside member

9y 89,300 2,069

Quoted from vid1900:
Pinball is just not that popular with women, are you going to blame Pinside?
How many women do you see at the auto swap meet (actually buying parts, not teetering around on the grass in heels and halter top)?
How many unaccompanied women do you see that own a telescope at an overnight astronomy event?
How about at a model rocketry launch?
How about on a CNC router forum?
Or the saltwater reef aquarium forum?
Let's just face the reality that some hobbies have VERY few active women.
Robin could paint the whole forum pink, remove any pictures of bikini women, and maybe get 6 more female members.

Women will likely never make up the majority on Pinside, but they could probably be better represented here.

For example:

~50 out of 700 tournament players at Pinburgh 2015 are women (7.1%).
----- My estimated count, based on first names on this list: http://replayfx.org/competitions/pinburgh/

~10 out of 6,743 members of Pinside are women (0.15%).
----- According to blondetall, who is a moderator here, so she probably knows.

If we could simply increase the Pinside ratio to 7.1%, we could add 481 new female members.

#723 9 years ago

SMW

Razorbak86

Pinside member

9y 89,300 2,069

Quoted from iceman44:
Fyi, there were only 400 at Pinburgh, not 700
Simply amazing is all I have to say

Pinburgh 2015 - July 30th to August 2nd, 2015

"The Pinburgh Match-Play Championship, a PAPA event sponsored by pair Networks Inc., is the largest pinball tournament in the world, featuring 280 pinball machines and 700 players battling the silverball over three days of competition. Pinburgh will offer plaques for all of the top finishers in each division and a guaranteed $100,000 prize pool."

"Preregistration occurred on December 7, 2014 at noon EST, and all 700 openings sold out within ten hours. This list represents all players who have reserved an opening in the tournament. If you believe your name is listed or not listed in error, or misspelled, please contact us so we may correct the mistake. This list will be updated as necessary leading up to the tournament. To sign up for the waitlist, click here. The most recent update was made December 17, 2014."

http://replayfx.org/competitions/pinburgh/

#844 9 years ago

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Razorbak86

Pinside member

9y 89,300 2,069

Quoted from Jimmydred:
You are right Pez... I thought you were being a dick just to be one. My Bad... In a different thread, if some one called you gay and insulted your wife.... You have the right to be pissed. That is complete bullshit and so wrong on all levels. More than unacceptable behavior. I do not condone that in anyway shape or form. I would think the mods would have been all over that. And if that is happening I missed it... And if I had seen it, I definitely called out bullshit on it.
There is a huge difference between disagreeing with some ones point of view... Or starting shit just to insult some ones family with No Fear because karma has never bitch slapped them. I guess some people think they can say what ever they want from their keyboard with no repercussions. Where I come from, an attack like that on me... No big deal. I am a big boy and could careless. But to say something bad about my wife, that would lead to real trouble. Seems people today have no respect anymore. I see it all the time when some D bag cuts me off in traffic and gives me the finger. Someday that finger is gonna get broken.
You and I probably have more in common than not. (most certainly if your band was more like Bad Religion than Good Charlotte) Let agree to all say we like Pinside. Think about what we post and try to respect each other . And when in doubt, whip out the tilt. I still laugh at some of the stuff even though it not PG/PC. like I said before have a great day everyone.

Classy post, Jimmydred.

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