We don’t even know if the game is any good. There are a lot of good games out there with a variety of themes, good and bad. I already have a list that I won’t get through before more good games are added.

Time will tell more than a grainy picture will.

I do not have one, but a few that I have talked to say it does about as well as a Stern Pro, so not as good from an ROI perspective.

First post, thanks for the verification.

On Black Knight, I'm really hoping that Stern has brought it to their booth for Amusement Expo in Las Vegas. If so, I'll get some hands-on time with it there on Wednesday and make a judgment off of that (I voted undecided at the moment). That's how I decided to get a Star Trek premium back in 2013...playing it next to the Pro as well as the other models available at the time, it surprised and impressed me the most. So we'll see with BK, while comparing it to The Munsters. Although by the theme, I am more interested in BK than TM. I am into the medieval theme, would like a Medieval Madness, but now I'm not so sure.

On your in-thread question about Dialed In, I currently own 10 pinball machines, 8 of them are at my public play location (Game Grid Arcade in WVC, UT); two are on a route in a break room. I've had Dialed In! LE since this past January, so it's hard to give a big picture of performance since I haven't had it for very long, but that said...

In the first full month I had it (Feb.), it was my #3 pin. We adjusted the pricing down a little (started at $1 a play, but decided to go 75¢) and that seemed to help. As it stands for the month of March, it's my #1 pin (being played now as I type this), although we'll see how it shakes out after the Spring Break crowds are done and this month closes. My Ghostbusters Pro continues to do really well (it's been #1 most of the time, doing better than the Star Wars and Star Trek premiums). We also added a Fish Tales a couple of weeks ago, and it's also been doing better than expected. So far, I don't regret the Dialed In purchase.

My location is a weird one though. I'm in a mall (not the best nor biggest mall in Utah) and work like a traditional arcade from the 80's did - games on tokens, no tickets, most content is video and pinball. About 65 games at the moment in 3,300 sq. ft. of space. I see people of all kinds come through, from parents expecting me to babysit their abandoned 18 month old, to old geezers in their 70's. Most of it entails families, but the pinball crowd would be guys mostly in their 30s-50s. They do tend to be more loyal than other customers, which is something that we appreciate.

I’m going to AMOA amusement expo this week and I’m confident in saying there’s a 0% chance of the new BK being at the show so I’ll wait until I play one to decide if we buy. We passed on Dialed In. From my experience, simpler games tend to be better route games. I think JJP games are better suited for a true pinball spot where leagues and tournaments occur. For a street location, it’s really more about the “curb appeal” of the game. Theme, looks, sounds etc more than the flow, code, rule set. Aerosmith is a great earning game in bars though most hardcore players find it lacking and repetitive.

I know the pics of BK3 are just crude press release shots with no real detail, but it looks like it could be much like STTNG for most operators-too much to go wrong and have to constantly repair and maintain, though I doubt I have to tell many of you that manufactures now consider the home market their primary customer.

Most of the old time operators around me have passed, so I don’t know of too many people to ask how BK and BK2K earned. I’d have to say that unless BK3 has that curb appeal, while being easy to start a mode or play a multiball, it’s probably more of a purchase to keep in the shop for us to play. Not many games could cater to all walks of pinballers-look cool and pretty for the kids and chicks, easy to start a mode or multiball for the casual or beginner player, but very deep and complex further in play for the savvy. That’s why AFM has always earned, held its value and got remade. It checks all the boxes.

It would be pretty shitty if there’s no upper playfield on the pro. If it weren’t for the current inflation of pin prices, it would be exceptionally difficult to realize any true ROI in having to buy a premium or LE.

Reasonably confident that Black Knight wouldn't earn well at my main location (barcade, lots of players in their 30s). The loop shot is fun for a while on BK2K and the music is awesome, but if it earned well I think you'd see it more often on location. Although Black Knight was groundbreaking for the time, the rules don't hold up at all. With a rules rewrite, it could turn into something I would enjoy playing.

Dialed In earned poorly for me relative to the price tag. It earned only a tiny bit more than stuff like Fish Tales and Congo (even at 75 cents for Dialed In vs 50 cents for the B list Bally/Williams games). I love the game, but who is going to choose that over Game of Thrones, Ghostbusters, or Addams Family? Only the real pinheads.

Dialed In scarred me a bit regarding original themes. Took me a long time to try out a TNA but it's only been out about two weeks, so too early to tell.

Sad to say it, but for operating NIB, theme is almost all that matters in terms of the cashbox. If you want to operate original themes, save your money and buy stuff from the 70s and 80s for 1/4 of the cost.

But even if the theme is good, the software has to come out from the factory at least KIND OF good initially. Munsters is a great example. We put out a Pro, planning to sell it and upgrade to a Premium, but the initial interest (dollars) at the location fell off after only about 2-3 weeks and never recovered. People sampled it on the location and just didn't stick around long, I'm assuming because the game is boring, but for whatever reason, they didn't keep dropping money in it very long (it's a competitive location with AfMr and Iron Maiden, though). We cancelled the Premium order, and upgraded Iron Maiden to Premium instead. The Pro Munsters was sold toward a jjPotC.

I want to give BK a shot, but not until the software has been completely vetted and is sort of done. Definitely not a preorder for the route here.

Too soon to tell. Theme goes a long way, but need more to go on.

Sadly, I wouldn't agree with that.

South Park crushes (at some locations). Ghostbusters has been my second best earning game ever. Stern Indiana Jones earns decently.

Ghostbusters and Stern Indiana Jones are definitely good enough for location. Ghostbusters Premium kills at every location it's put at here, even though it kicks almost everyone's butt. Average game times are laughably short, but people keep putting more money in.

South Park I have no explanation for. Street Fighter II, either. There are holes in the fabric of the universe and those two slipped through.

I say the same thing about Dialed In, but I blame the theme.

The execution on Munsters is great, IMO, but few care that much about the theme. Star Wars has been the best earning game I've ever had...but it's 1000% not because of the code. Munsters wouldn't become the best earning game ever if it had Star Wars code.

Any new game gets a lot of early interest.

Dialed In fell off a cliff here, too. Same with Hobbit. Only WoZ is still here. jjPotC is about to go out and see if it sinks or swims. Hopefully we get another WoZ level machine from JJP that has location legs.

What do you mean by this...Dialed In code isn't good? (Edit: or sorry, I think I understand. Earnings fell off a cliff.)

Hobbit code is pretty close to WOZ. People can play dozens of games on either without having any idea about how they did what they did. Even if someone who does understand the game is helping you out, they can't give you a good strategy, all they can do is tell you about the concepts...and maybe point you toward the closest thing once you've already flailed around and hit some shots.

I thought Hobbit earned pretty well, no? WOZ has been great, but it's not the code.

I disagree. IJ4 has an 8 ball multiball, and the rest is endless wood chopping.

League scores on GB are utterly depressing. Median scores are typically around 30m, with about 20% below 10m. These are scores from regulars. People have no idea how to play that game. The ones who do are really just playing for scoring exploits anyway. Theme, sound, art are awesome.

Location players at our locations are mostly noobs that just bat the ball around and make lights and sounds happen. They know nothing of wood chopping. IJ4 is a terrible game, but it's fine for location. Those two scoops get blown out pretty fast, though.

Hobbit did not earn well here at all. BUT it may have been because they had early code problems that made the game annoying to play. We gave it 6 months, then sent it down the road.

Wow, those are some TERRIBLE GB average scores. With just a cursory knowledge of how the game works you can get over 100mil pretty consistently - sometimes just playing the rock paper scissors card game.

Those scores are over multiple seasons at two different locations (one mine, and one not) with different player bases. Only the top players are getting 100m consistently.

No one plays the Rock Paper Scissors game because it’s worth nothing in tournament mode. Don’t cross the streams is worth 60m, but most people can’t hit that shot without accidentally turning off the skills shots.

In our location Hobbit started great and is still a very good earner. Paid itself off in about 20 months, which is better than average for us. Dialed In started very good, then pretty quickly dropped to below average, but is perhaps starting to improve a little. Still unlikely to pay itself off before we rotate it out. POTC: Great start, staying great. SW:LE: Great start, staying great. GoT Premium: Absolutely crazy good start, and still staying incredibly good.

To stay on topic: Very interested in BK3. We had BK2K on location earlier, and it acquired a small but devout following.

There's locations where Hobbit is the #1 earner at, others where it hasn't fared so well, same goes for any game. Seems like location, what the location offers, and how well games are maintained play heavily into earnings.

I’m putting an LE at my main location My Parents Basement on day one. (Mid May?) It’s a comic book bar restaurant pincade. If it earns on par with other new releases by mid Jun I will order a show special premium for home from SFGE from marco. I’m realllllly excited for the title but not naive enough to expect it to do extremely well on location.

another question would be, will you get a pro for location? cause the prem/le seems to be way better and more in the black knight style... the pro looks pretty weak on this one from initial photos

No question you’re right about this, but I’m getting an LE knowing that it eventually makes it way home.

I talked to an old timer op this morning. He said BK earned but in the early 80s all pins earned pretty well. It wasn’t great but steady. He said BK2000 was a dog.

Looks good enough to approach and pop some dollars in. Really like BK and dislike BK2K so neutral on theme, but artwork looks miles ahead of any Steve Ritchie pin. As long as it is fun, I'll keep playing it.

See ya there

Depends on the location. Aerosmith Premium SUCKED when we had it out on location in bars. But KISS Premium, which is essentially the same game, did great.

KISS makes you feel good when you play it.

AS, not so much. Good game but more serious.

The feature matrix on Stern's site for the Pro/Prem/LE seems to indicate no upper playfield for the Pro .

And a plastic upper playfield on the premium/le.

Yep, which doesn't cut it for me. After taking a closer look I went ahead and ordered a Pro for my location. Looks like a really great Pro.

As I predicted, no BK3 at AMOA...JJP wasn’t there either

Theme does make a difference with earnings. I see people walk right past certain games just to play Guardians or Star Wars, only because of the theme, especially the kids.

Dialed In started off great, then fell off for a while and is now earning well, usually in the top quartile. With the exception of WOZ, I think it takes time for people to appreciate some of the JJP games. There are certainly original themed games from the 90s that are still great earning games: MM, AFM, MB, just to name a few.

As far as BK3, I am going to have to learn more about it before I commit either way. Unfortunately, no one outside of the pinball hobby cares that it is the 3rd Black Knight game, or that the game was designed by Steve Ritchie.

At least on our location, my experience has been that both Hobbit and POTC were instant hits and did not need to grow on people. Both were and still are hugely popular with the general public. The more seasoned regulars either love or dislike Hobbit, while POTC is less polarizing and generally well liked.

About BK3: I personally prefer a clear upper playfield, and I know that many newbies also dislike losing sight of the ball. We've had WPT on location, and had no practical issues with the upper playfield. Sure, it doesn't look shiny like glass any longer after a couple thousand plays, but it's still definitely see-through.

Find and play the predecessors.

BK has four timed 3-target banks over two levels. There are three metal ramps, two physical ball locks, two magna-saves, 3 balls and 4 flippers.

BK2K has two timed 3-target banks over two levels. There are two ramp, two physical ball locks, two magna-saves, 3 balls and 3 flippers.

BK3K prem has one timed target bank over two levels, great art and sound. There is one ramp, two physical ball locks, one magna-save, 6 balls, 3 flippers and one cool toy.

A solid &'tuned original black knight will probably earn more than the latest one due to how popular it was when released back in the day, damn that pin suck'd a lot of my $$ back in the earlier 80's

The amusement park I operate in opens the 12. Line up is:
Beatles Gold
Munsters Le
Iron Maiden LE
Batman66 LE
Starwars LE
Aerosmith Pro
Ac dc Luci
Metallica Premium
Game of thrones premium
Addams
Starwars Dataeast
And we ordered a Black Knight LE.

My guess is its for the player, not the street customers.
Beatles will be the winner this year.