(Topic ID: 257420)

Opening Flight 2000 new software up to the community


By slochar

9 months ago



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#351 3 months ago

I was playing around with the speech data yesterday and substituting data from the Wolfpack atari game into the same code into f2k, but the Atari code was shorter. Didn't like the way it sounded though, it was clipped off.

1 week later
#352 3 months ago

Current free byte count:
Low rom=2
High rom=5

Fixed a bug in >1 multiball where 'blast' and 'off' weren't being called out (since I was never clearing the flags).

I was pretty stoked yesterday because I had a REALLY good multiball going where I was shooting balls up into the walker for the 3x scoring - I almost got the 5-4-3-2-1 40k tripled, and I definitely had some left spinner rips at almost 12k a spin in there. Also, the ball walker code is robust and handled the multiple entries into the walker well. (Due to the spinner waiting code, I was able to shoot a second ball up into the walker, twice during that multiball. I suppose the ULTIMATE test would be all 3 balls up there to see what happens.) I think I got about 1.5 million during that ball.

I realized I hadn't used the 'score' callout either - so there might be space to remove that from the speech rom. For the new blast standup spot rule if the letters are already complete when it awards the extra multiplier I could have it say 'bonus x' - and was thinking of having the playfield multiplier say '3x score power' or 3x power score' to get score in there, but that doesn't flow as well to me.

I also slightly increased the amount of time that the 2x/3x scoring is active, so that it's longer than it takes for the ball to eject from the maze.

#353 3 months ago

Sounds like it’s close to being done

#354 3 months ago

Look excellent!

#355 3 months ago
Quoted from Stretch7:

Sounds like it’s close to being done

I'm down to 7 bytes free so it might become academic at this point unless I shake more free.

The last software point I"m tweaking is the timing of the multiball start - there's a delay sometimes in the walker, which the software recovers from nicely, but the actual reaction is slightly off vs. stock.

Also I'm typesetting the original manual into Word with the rules changes so a replacement manual can be re-created, but that's not essential to the release of the software which I'm hoping for in the next week or so depending on how the tweaking goes. I'll probably create another couple of instruction cards too so people that choose differing options can print out original style cards.

#356 3 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

I'm down to 7 bytes free so it might become academic at this point unless I shake more free.
The last software point I"m tweaking is the timing of the multiball start - there's a delay sometimes in the walker, which the software recovers from nicely, but the actual reaction is slightly off vs. stock.
Also I'm typesetting the original manual into Word with the rules changes so a replacement manual can be re-created, but that's not essential to the release of the software which I'm hoping for in the next week or so depending on how the tweaking goes. I'll probably create another couple of instruction cards too so people that choose differing options can print out original style cards.

Sounds great! I hope to have my resurrected F2K fully dialed-in by next week so your timing works for me

One request if I may: along with updated manual pages, could you provide a new DIP chart to replace (or overlay) the one in the backbox? Would be a nice handy reference, especially if the game is ever resold with your updated ROMs installed. Just imagine the chaos if someone tried troubleshooting the DIPs with the OEM chart, ha ha

#357 3 months ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

Sounds great! I hope to have my resurrected F2K fully dialed-in by next week so your timing works for me
One request if I may: along with updated manual pages, could you provide a new DIP chart to replace (or overlay) the one in the backbox? Would be a nice handy reference, especially if the game is ever resold with your updated ROMs installed. Just imagine the chaos if someone tried troubleshooting the DIPs with the OEM chart, ha ha

I'll work on the other paperwork as well that would need updating.

I can imagine someone getting the game years from now with a strange option set and they're either think the roms are corrupt (bye bye custom!!) or they'll be really excited thinking they found some ultra-rare prototype of the game.

#358 3 months ago

More progress, of the usual one step forwards one step back type.

Finally, the multiball start choreography is back where it should be. But, it's back to scoring 35k instead fo the 40k it should! (How?? I didn't touch that part of the code, I thought)

Secondly, the second multiball is broken again, somehow - it's supposed to make you do the full 10-1 coundown (drop bank twice) for the second multiball, but instead, it makes it really easy! (as in doesn't even reset!) - now sure what happened there, but I did have to reassign some flags for different uses. I actually discovered what flags 41, 42, 43, 48, 49, 4a do - they're all different coin alternators. Now, it *probably* wouldn't affect anything unless you happen to coin up the game while you are playing, but I'm not taking chances. I also rewrote the coin handling and I think I understand what they were doing 100%, so I was able to save some space there.

While tracing/moving some code around, I found out an interesting little tidbit that I think should be eliminated, because it actually penalizes a player that does too well before starting their multiball. Here's the scenario: You have 2 balls locked, Blast off spelled, and you have completed your countdown, so ready to launch the ball into multiball. If before you shoot the left lane you also happen to walk the 5 bank from 5 down to 2 or 1, when you start multiball, you do NOT get the 40k spot lit until you complete 2 and then 1 (or just 1, depending on where your progress was). Ripoff!! You have to shoot 2 extra targets. I'm pretty sure I'm taking this out. I'm sure they were balancing scoring, or maybe there was some other thing going on in the code.

One thing I don't care for is 2 balls in the shooter lane if you restart a game in the middle - this is where a shooter lane switch would help out. This isn't high on my fish to fry list.

Speech changes:
I did add in the 'bonus' soundbite, if you hit spot blast quickshot while it's lit but you already have blast off spelled, a couple revisions ago added an extra bonus x for doing this - now it will say 'extra bonus x' when this happens. I also added a pitch change on the last DANGERDANGER before tilting, it is slightly higher in pitch so you know you're on the edge of a tilt. There is an additional speech quote on the attract mode, it should alternate every other time. I'm going to revamp the way I'm timing that as well because what's in there now is a kludge.

I still don't have a place to use the sound bite 'score'. I'll have to see if it makes sense to change things around in the speech rom again to put something else that I might be able to use in there - like "T" and "minus" for the coundown. (T is in split second's rom, and minus is in the speech+ rom which I guess is a calculator).

One thing that's still confusing is the interaction of the ball walker - sometimes it steps smartly, right away, and other times there's kind of a long pause while it's deciding to do so. I don't think this will be fixable at least not without changing the way it works entirely, at least it doesn't 'miss' walking like it used to (in earlier code it could miss, and even stock it missed as well.... but this might be if I don't have a switch cap on the entry switch..... I should really check that. I swapped the PF before I was replacing those caps they were all cut off originally.)

#359 3 months ago

Oh, and I found another bug while doing this other stuff - first ball didn't get 1k bonus lit by default. Subsequent balls did. At some point I had made the decision to NOT issue 1k automatically, but then I made the decision to switch it back, and only one got changed. That's back to 1k lit at ball start, like I think it should be. Stock code giving you 10% of your max bonus seemed a little generous, but now it's 5.something %, so that's fine.

#360 87 days ago

Found a bug in multiball start that I think I've quashed but will have to play some more to make sure.

Added ability to go backwards in audits 1-4 for replay levels/hstd, if you hold the coin door slam switch in and then hit the credit button it counts down instead of up, for those times when you're setting the replay level to 1,600,000 and overshoot it by 10k....@#&^*&#!!

#361 85 days ago

Did much playtesting and the bug is not only in multiball start - it's because of the interaction between the left spinner timeout code and the walker, as I just played a game where I got Lock 1 awarded, and THEN the spinner started to react, so it reloads the walker code (as it should, because the spinner is still spinning - however, once it gets to the lock code and actually walks, it should not do the walker rentry)

Part of this is because of the left spinner reaction time, on a REALLY fast spin on my game, it won't register until it slows down a little bit. I added a specific flag for this but until the spinner registers the flag can't get set! (I wish they had put switches in the bottom 2 walker positions!!)

So, back to the code and after tweaking, restart this test cycle again. I need a way to tell the walker on the first time in, and ONLY the first time in, to pause for a little bit to let the spinner 'catch up' - which will then trigger the walker on its timer again.

#362 80 days ago

https://sites.google.com/site/allentownpinball/galaxy-asm/f2k-release-3347M.zip?attredirects=0&d=1

Release candidate v3347M posted at the above link. I *think* I have the details all ironed out, but I'm sure early adopters will find something right away that I completely missed. About 1000 games were played to get to this point.

One thing that needs more testing is the walker behavior if you decide to not swap it with the coin lockout circuit - it cannot be helped that some switches will either be missed or not react right away if the walker stays as the momentary solenoid as stock. (Stern realized this themselves in all the subsequent games that use this mech and they switched it to continuous circuits). This will only be a factor where the walker needs to walk while other balls can be scoring (i.e., multiball). All other times, the left spinner will finish before the walker code runs, so you don't lose the points from that.

The walker as normal is dip 14 ON (previously background sound, which most people have on). The walker as continuous is dip 14 OFF. If you didn't connect up the knocker, having the switch in the wrong position will only pulse the coin lockout coil when the walker should react so no damage, but if you hook up the knocker, it WILL blow a fuse and possibly the transistor driver if you have the switch in the wrong position. Knocker installers, put a fuse on the knocker to avoid this!

Not every combination of dip switches and options was tested extensively, so when testing, report the dip settings and game options you are using.

IMPORTANT: After first install, you must set the new game options 19-22. 19 is tilt warnings range 0-3, 20 is the number of credits for hstd, 21 is the max credits, and 22 is the multiball difficulty. There will likely be random values in here from previous code; not all are critical but #22 is - if it's a value other than 00, 01, 02, or 03 it will likely crash the machine once you get to qualifying multiball. The code will only allow setting valid values, but it doesn't correct invalid values on bootup.

The current codebase has *zero* bytes free in low rom, and 16 bytes free in upper rom.

See the text files included in the zip file for more information on which rom chips to burn for your particular setup. Note also that the new speech rom is required, and it can either be burned as 2x2716's or 1x2532. I don't know what will happen if you don't change the speech rom, it may or may not crash the game, but I can tell you for sure that it will not say all the speech it should.

Questions/bug reports/comments post.... please include which board you are using (weebly, mpu200) and dip/option settings if you are reporting a bug.

1 week later
#363 72 days ago

Bug Tracker update: It has been reported that both the walker behavior at multiball start and during multiball might have some issues. The first is that a 2 ball multiball would start, with the third ball remaining in the walker. This was tracked down as a switch issue with the left kickbig in the maze; it was activating without a ball in it (the software expects/waits for a ball in the kickbig before moving onto the next phases of multiball start). The fix in this case was to remove the switch capacitor from the kickbig switch (a switch where a ball can come to rest on it does not need a switch cap at all). Likely the short hit as the ball was leaving the kickbig activated the switch again.

The second issue was during multiball, if for some reason the spinner counter stays on the display when going back into the walker, it waits. This was added as a last minute addition to try and have a double check that the spinner was not active, but unfortunately, if the spinner routine times out and does not clear the display, the flag used doesn't clear, either. In the software, if the spinner counter is active (i.e. displaying) the walker code would trigger a re-entry to let the spinner finish - which it never would. I was unable to duplicate this bug on my game, but it was consistent on the tester's game.

The next maintenance release will eliminate the spinner double check and just go with the timer check - the double check was added to try and catch a really fast spinner shot to the lock that the spinner hadn't even reacted to timer-wise so the ball would walker, even though it's supposed to wait. I'll replace the double check with a delayed reaction on the walker instead to catch this error. This one is pretty minor, although if it happens that you're walking in score multiplier mode, you will get extra scoring from the left spinner that you otherwise wouldn't have been entitled to.

So many things that could be avoided were there switches in the walker!

#364 72 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

...
I also doubled checked that the clear the lock switch 24 still works at game start; just need to add the clearing of it to ball end in the edge case da_vagrant suggested, where relocked balls after a player's multiball would transfer back to players that earned them on their balls, and to add a dip switch somewhere to enable clearing all locks all balls for the masochistic level of multiball.

Thanks once again for all the work on this . I've lined up a friend who can burn the ROMs for me, so getting closer to trying this out. In reading the documentation I wasn't sure that the "masochist multiball" (see post #318) setting got implemented. Is it in the code?
Thanks again, definitely owe you some beverages if we cross paths some day!

#365 72 days ago

I reversed the stock code's masochistic multiball if that's what you mean - the original multiball took away EVERYONE's locked balls, even if the person getting multiball put a couple back up there when their multiball was done.

The current 'tough' multiball is setting it to require the full 10-1 countdown on the drops for the FIRST multiball. Now, that's tough. Even the progressive setting is kind of hard, that's where I have mine set now, because I'll get the first multiball, then for the second, I'll get down to 3-2-or so and drain out. I should add an automatic 3x pf multiplier start on the 10-1 setting as it's just so hard.

#366 72 days ago

I was a fan of the masochist option , but certainly 4 levels of MB difficulty should be plenty! You're right about how tough the long countdowns that don't carry-over will be. When you add in the odd patented Bally/Stern "brick targets" that stay up on a direct hit, there should be no shortage of frustrating moments

#367 71 days ago

Wow - It is really so great what is going here! We need to get you guys working on the vaccine!

My F2K is under restoration and I look forward to playing the easy mode. Your rules and enhancements are going to become the right way to enjoy this game for us average skill players like me.

Thank You!

1 week later
#368 59 days ago

Curious if anyone has had issues where the ball will sit on walker switch and not activate walker?....its acts like a non working switch but it is working. This will happen half the time when i make walker shot. The game is really unplayable as it will not spit out a second or third ball when this happens and needs to be reset to release balls.

#369 59 days ago

When this happens does the spinner count stay on the ball in play display? Is it when locking balls only or during multiball?
Original mpu200 or weebly board?

#370 58 days ago

Ok ill let you know tomorrow about spinner.
It happens when locking balls and multiball, Original Mpu200.

#371 58 days ago

Ok just tested and yes when switch doesn’t register the number of spins is still in display.

#372 58 days ago

OK thanks, that points me in the correct direction of removing something in the code that I'd just added as a double check on the spinner. It looks like on an MPU200 game for some reason the spinner counter doesn't come off the display randomly - it never popped up in 100s of games on the weebly setup I use for testing. It can't be a stack underflow because the stock software uses some low memory locations for sound stuff.

I'll remove the extra flag I'd added and post an update once that's done.

#373 58 days ago

Ok thanks

#374 57 days ago

Sent you a link with new test version LMK if you get same/similar errors. Also do you have a switch capacitor on your walker entry switch? (and your 2 maze kickers - the maze kickers definitely do not need them, but the entry switch does. I wish they'd put the entry switch lower so that the waiting ball would 'rest' on the switch instead of clearing it - would solve a lot of issues.)

#375 57 days ago

Ok ill give it a try.
I did have them desoldered but when i couldn't figure out what was going on with the switch so i soldered them back on but i will desolder them again. I actually changed my entry switch out with a modified lane rollover so it would lay on switch cause when my switch wasn't working right i thought it was because when you shoot ball to hard it would go past the switch...but that wasn't the problem...anyways i have a good solid long switch there now.
Thanks for the update

#376 57 days ago

I think the switch might also be the way it is because it might get marked as stuck if the ball sits on it - you might have to change it back. The advantage to the switch AFAIT is that you can trigger it, it's off the switch so it's available to be triggered again if a second ball comes behind it - with the full length in there holding it down, the first one will always work but the 2nd ball behind it will 'count' as the first switch trigger. (and never activate on its own).

Although, there is a routine (stock that is pretty much the same in the new software) that periodically resets switches like the kickers in the maze, the outholes, the walker entry, and the drop switches to try and catch stuck ones.

I may have to rethink having the walker stop and always wait for the spinner to stop - it makes sense in starting multiball, but other times (and especially if you swapped the coin lockout coil with the walker - did you I forgot to ask?) I think it'd be better to have it flow through and if you miss a couple spins, you miss a couple spins.

#377 55 days ago

Ahh yes i hear what your saying....well i still have old switch so easy enough to swap back. No I didn't swap out coin lockout with walker.

#378 55 days ago
Quoted from Stretch7:

Ahh yes i hear what your saying....well i still have old switch so easy enough to swap back. No I didn't swap out coin lockout with walker.

Ok, good, you're the beta tester for the non-swapped code! Interesting to see how it works. I know with the walker still the momentary one, there might be contention with other solenoids that might want to fire at the same time.

#379 50 days ago

Ok its all good now with the new code. I did have to go back to original rollover though...it wouldn't work sitting on the switch.
I forgot to cut cap but i didn't notice any other coils going off. I think though at a later date i will set walker coil up as continuous.
And it figures finally get it going and my 2 target breaks so didn't really get a chance to play properly lol.
Thanks for the update.

2 weeks later
#380 34 days ago

Well, I was finally going to get around to installing this upgrade this weekend, but I've run into a snag.

In early May I bought a set of 4x 2716 mod ROMs from Andrew, version 33 (or whatever it was back in early May). Of course the latest is up to version 47. So I figured to go ahead and try reburning them using a MiniPro I have handy, hopefully no big deal.

Except since soon after I bought those (of course!), the new code requires the speech ROM to be changed. And I actually have a "spare" OEM speech ROM from a spare SB300 board, U9 populated only, so I was going to try reburning that.

Except the instructions say the speech card can use either 2x 2716, or 1x 2532... and the MiniPro does not seem to support the 2532? Or maybe not this flavor: it does lists a dizzying array of 2532's, but they are all SOP/SOIC 8/16 pin chips - no DIP24.

And as it happens, while my original OEM speech rom is virtually illegible, the few characters I *can* make out say "...516 [end]".

Adding more confusion, I understand the 25xx vs 27xx chip comparisons are not exactly cut-and-dry, so I'm even more worried about frying this working OEM speech chip. (Nevermind, why the change in series... if the SB300 could use 2x 2716, why not retain and consolidate to 1x 2*7*32 instead of 2*5*32...?)

Anyway, can anyone clarify if it should be possible for me to safely read/burn the OEM speech chip (single @U9), or will I have to order one from somebody?

#381 34 days ago

You need to build an adapter for the minipro to burn 2532's as 2732's. Bob Roberts' site has information on it (well, an archive of his site....)
http://www.thegleek.com/bobroberts/mspacrom.html

You can burn 2x2716's for the vsu-100 board OR one 2532. You can get 2816's they are eeprom version of 2716 and what I now use instead of trying to find 2716's (which the minipro doesn't do anyway IIRC)

Usually for my mpu200's I have them all jumpered for 2x2732's. Most of my games have been converted to Andrew's mpu board that I use with eeprom version of the 512's. It's not easy to rejumper the vsu100 board for anything other than the 2532's or 2716's. The 2716/2516 variants are the ones that are 'different' regarding voltages and pinouts - 2532's are all compatible with each other re: the pinout.

#382 30 days ago

Could 2x 2732s be used in the sound board by doubling up the 2716 images?

Edit: just read the readme that says this isn’t possible, is that because of the lines used to make it compatible with either the 2716 or 2532? I thought 2732s could typically be used in place of 2716s, but I might have gotten my mental wires crossed

#383 30 days ago

I think I've tried the 2732 thing in the past on the speech board on other games and it didn't work - it wouldn't hurt to try it.

I don't see why minipro doesn't add 2532 to their selection - their device works by having all addressable/redefinable pins for each definition so it would be easy enough to add I'd think. The whole 2532 myths are pretty amazing according to Bob Roberts' page a lot of people get flummoxed by burning them and do all sorts of things to convert boards to not use them.

Even the Elektor magazine article I just read says "2532 chips are impossible to obtain". They aren't! They're just as available as 2732's. Now, 2716's at this point are hard to find so it's great that there's an eeprom equivalent in the 2816. That is what I now use in place of 2716's instead of doing the double up trick.

#384 30 days ago
Quoted from Zzap:

Could 2x 2732s be used in the sound board by doubling up the 2716 images?

If I understand your question correctly, you don't have two 2716 on hand but do have two 2732 on hand. So you just want to double up both 2716 images and program them into two 2732 chips which you'll plug into U9 and U10 on the speech board.

If this is what you want to do, then yes it will work.

However, if what you want to do is program both 2716 images into each half of a single 2732 to plug into U9, then you'll need to modify the speech board to support it.

#385 30 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

If I understand your question correctly, you don't have two 2716 on hand but do have two 2732 on hand. So you just want to double up both 2716 images and program them into two 2732 chips which you'll plug into U9 and U10 on the speech board.
If this is what you want to do, then yes it will work.

Yep, that's exactly my plan, 2732s were a lot easier / cheaper to obtain than 2716s!

3 weeks later
#386 4 days ago

I am way out of my league for this thread, but for what it is worth one thing that I have notice in games with two spinners is that there are some choice opportunities to get both spinners going at the same time. In F2K, this can happen when the ball comes down the right spinner lane to the right flipper, and then is hit up the left spinner to the walker. In multiball you might be able to use two balls to get both spinners going at once. I was thinking that you could program in something to happen when this occurs, for example spotting the O, or something like that.

#387 4 days ago

It's feature complete at this point. Bug Fixes only. Eventually the source will be posted if you want to add this yourself.

#388 4 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

It's feature complete at this point. Bug Fixes only. Eventually the source will be posted if you want to add this yourself.

Thanks for making it sound so simple and easy. You’ve inspired me to make it happen. Once I get both the voice and spinner working, I will figure out how to add your mods. Then I will try figuring out how to write code myself. Aren’t there virtual platforms used to test code? Can you suggest one? Thanks in advance.

#389 3 days ago
Quoted from tyking:

Aren’t there virtual platforms used to test code? Can you suggest one? Thanks in advance.

I think I got a bit ahead of myself with this question, because I am seeing that I really need to start by simply learning how to read and write the relevant code. Which one should I be learning, C++, Python, etc.

#390 3 days ago
Quoted from tyking:

Aren’t there virtual platforms used to test code? Can you suggest one?

There's really only one virtual platform to test pinball code and that's pinmame.

Quoted from tyking:

I think I got a bit ahead of myself with this question, because I am seeing that I really need to start by simply learning how to read and write the relevant code. Which one should I be learning, C++, Python, etc.

This code is circa 1980. It's 6800 assembly and stern's own byte code language. See:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-galaxy-code-disassembly

#391 3 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

There's really only one virtual platform to test pinball code and that's pinmame.

This code is circa 1980. It's 6800 assembly and stern's own byte code language. See:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-galaxy-code-disassembly

great. sometimes it's nice not to have any options - less decision fatigue...

#392 3 days ago

Following

#393 2 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

There's really only one virtual platform to test pinball code and that's pinmame.

This code is circa 1980. It's 6800 assembly and stern's own byte code language. See:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-galaxy-code-disassembly

I took a look at the information you provided. thank you. Classic example of "the more you learn the less you know". But I won't be discouraged. I'll simply have to adjust my anticipated time frame by about five years...

#394 1 day ago

I finally managed to get v.47 with update speech installed (was running v.33 before) and the changes are awesome! Can't believe how much extra speech was crammed in.

Unfortunately it seems like this presented a new issue I don't recall with either the stock OEM Stern Roms, or v.25 and v.33. Can someone clarify the trigger behavior of the ball walker for me?

What is happening, is my walker entry switch is tuned so that the ball rolls over it, and the switch is held closed when the ball strikes/rests against the first walker mech prong. And it seems in this v.47 code, the walker mech does not decide to trigger and open, until that entry switch opens again. Which of course, will never happen while the ball is resting on it. And the ball can't move anywhere else. But, if as soon as I move the ball up and open the switch, boom the mech triggers and the walker opens for its split second. I can mimic this with finger play too. It's a reliable repeatable behavior.

I don't recall this behavior on the other versions - I never had an issue playing the game, but as is stands now this is an instant gameplay stopper.

(also, FWIW... manually fooling the entry switch to enter into multi-ball... the first ball that drains somehow counts for all of them, and the ball-in-play count increments).

So: do I need to adjust my walker entry switch to somehow be momentary-closed and open up after the ball passes over it (and how? Since the ball esentially rests on that very spot while the walker is still closed?)...

...OR do I have a fiendish red-herring coincidence problem that somehow only managed to appear at the very same time I swapped these new ROMs in...

...OR is this some sort of bug?

I am using an original MPU-200 jumpered for 2x 2732 ROMS. Speech is 2x 2716.

#395 1 day ago

If the spinner counter as you went up the left lane never comes off the ball in play display, yes, that is a bug/might be a bug. It's not that the routine isn't running for the walker switch, it's that it's running and waiting for the spinner counter to come off the display.... which it doesn't because the spinner counter routine somehow gets lost and never runs the routine to clear it.

If the spinner counter goes back to the ball in play, that means that the walker switch command has been missed. I am now of the belief based on some photos several people have sent me that the walker entry is NOT supposed to be held down by the top ball, but is instead supposed to be held down only if a ball is already in position one, so that the walker routine will run TWICE instead of once (this is in the stock code as well). This is also why Stern specced out a switch cap on that switch, so it wouldn't be missed. (The switch caps on the kickbigs are in error, I believe because those switches have to have the ball holding them down, or it would break the wireform on launch).

The error doesn't occur in stock roms this way because the stock rom specifically KILLS the spinner scoring while the walker routine is waiting/walking. This is patently unfair on a good rip.

So, let me know which direction your bug is waving and I'll look at a maintenance fix for it.

I was looking over the source this morning to see if I can get it into release shape - there are a ton of "optional" (not really!) directives I want to collapse first, and some more comments for the rest of them. For instance, all of the gamatron "Fixes" are hopelessly outdated right now and will definitely not work. I've been taking a sort of long break from coding for a bit as I didn't do anything for several months other than this and other code (I often have 5-6 projects going at once) - taking a long needed break to regroup and come at several projects fresh.

I still need to scan the paperwork in the game and update it as well. I did most of the manual re-typesetting already, and was moving onto a new re-draw of the schematics to correct several errors in my previous effect here (and putting data signals in colors, address bus etc.) - that's where I'm stopped.

#396 1 day ago

Thanks for the quick response and explanation.

So, for testing, I took the glass off, used both my finger and the ball, and bypassed the spinner entirely. In other words, I pressed the entry switch without triggering the spinner. In either case, as long as that switch is held down, not a single thing happens. When I release the switch, after about a second the walker engages and the speech clip (1st stage, 2nd stage, etc) plays.

So I don't think it's related to the spinner routine, unless the game is *supposed* to see that before the entry? But that didn't help either...

I suppose I could try to bend the switch trip wire up to see if the ball might fully clear and release it, but I'm afraid I might break it and the clearance is gonna be tight either way. Can someone post a pic of what that switch should look like? Mine, it's that kind of wire that points straight up so the ball can't roll backwards over it. Which (along with that stupid plastic overhead) is really a pain when you want to clear the walker manually... so I'm not sure that's entirely correct.

#397 1 day ago

I think the pic was in the flight 2000 owner thread or in this thread. Nothing in the software is set to wait for the switch to release nor 'see' the spinner previously (the walker switch does have a timeout on it, which is keyed to the spinner timer IF it is spinning - if it is not, it just drops through after the timeout period, which is purposely set at about 2 seconds IIRC).

I would see if you can get the wireform adjusted to not be pressed at the entry - sometimes playfields like to wear by the first 'finger' of the walker mech and that interferes with the walking and the activation. Before I replaced my PF about 12 years ago with the CPR I had that issue, a divot there that sometimes would hold the ball up. I fixed it by adding a small nail to hold the ball to the other side so it could drop.

I'll be able to check on my machine tomorrow morning to see if I can duplicate the no-walk behavior by holding the switch down - I don't think that should really matter to the routines (although a background routine could affect it, but make it slower). It works in multiball holding it down when you get 2 balls up there at the same time.

The background routines in some stern games reset certain switches periodically to catch events that may have been missed (drop targets, mainly) - but they are finicky - the ones on 9 ball cause lots of issues for instance. F2k's only reset the drops, the walker entry, and the maze kickbigs. Oh, and the trough switches. So a lot!

#398 23 hours ago

Well I tried to get the entry trigger wireform bent so that it would close the switch when the ball rolls over it, but open the switch when the ball rests on the walker prong immediately afterward. This... is almost impossible. Had to adjust both the wireform and the switch, and even then there's only about a hair's allowance for clearance. It's stupid and won't be reliable at all but, for proof-of-concept I got it working well enough to test. I shot ball 1 up there and it counted the spinner, then registered lock ball 1 and granted ball 2. I then locked ball 2 and was granted ball 3. I then qualified ball 3 lock (that GO-GO-GO sequence is freakin awesome!!!!) and began multiball...

....and then as soon as the first ball drains, it counts down bonus and increments ball in play ("ball 1 is over... begin ball 2"), even as the remaining multiballs are in play. Needless to say, the game gets royally confused / unplayable after that (next "multiball" drains, etc, repeat... game ends very quickly).

I had some buyers lined up to buy with deposit, and very excited about the enhancements but I'm not sure I'll get this going by their preferred deadline. I'll have to revert to original code (and wireform bend)... but damn, the skill shot, scoring enhancements, and added speech are killer. I really wanted to see and play this myself. But I presume others have installed this without issue so I'm confused and dejected as to what "my" problems could be.

FWIW I did not mod for the knocker, have tilt set to 3 dangers, and multiball set as OEM stock / easy. NVRAM is installed, no batteries on board. Game does show v.47 at startup.

#399 11 hours ago

The ball is not holding the switch in the second pic although it looks like it might be (I went into switch test to verify)
Same behavior as you have if you hold the switch down, nothing until it's released. I should probably try that with stock software too to see what it does.

I think they went with the 1/2 wireform so that the finger wouldn't have a risk of hitting the ball back UP.

20200918_091101 (resized).jpg20200918_091216 (resized).jpg
#400 9 hours ago

Game play has been working fine for me so far but haven't had a ton of games on it yet. One thing i do notice though, if the game is left on it will randomly start repeating the walker non stop... i will have to physically turn it off and on to stop and then it will just do it again. There doesn't seem to be a perfect timing for this to happen ....it can be after half hour, 45, hour etc. Weather my game did this with the old code I'm not to sure. Is this maybe an attract mode but only supposed to do it a few times?

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