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(Topic ID: 178720)

Open Letter to Gary Stern re: Defective Playfields


By kpg

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 333 posts
  • 93 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by ExtremePinball
  • Topic is favorited by 10 Pinsiders

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There are 333 posts in this topic. You are on page 7 of 7.
#301 3 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

No, the ghosting only appeared after a couple of months, and it is just a sliver on one insert. There is also a few chips in the top outlane, but they are very small, and sine they appeared, they have not changed. Stern folks didn't hesitate to look at the pics and agree to put me on the list. I am keeping the game, so I could care less when they do it. They can save me for last for all I care....I will have a new game again.

Sounds completely fair and level headed. Thanks for sharing.

#302 3 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

To be objective, you have to realize you're in a forum of customers. Customers of a very expensive product. Please try to not take what people say here personally. We bitch because we love pinball. We want to be at a place where we don't HAVE to bitch. I don't want to speak for everyone...but I'm pretty sure everyone here, including myself loves your artwork and wishes you did EVERY Stern game. We admire and respect all of the people who make pinball and their legacy which has brought us much joy. The bitching you see in threads like this aren't personal jabs and you or your colleagues. Something has gone wrong with playfield production. You didn't do that. Jody didn't do that....but it happened...it may still be happening. See it from our perspective...that of a paying customer. If you bought an $8000 pinball machine, wouldn't you be upset if it was defective and your requests for a resolution weren't being addressed?

I'm in total agreement with Rarehero and Panzerfreak. Damn, tell me, is this the upside down world from Stranger Things?

#303 3 years ago
Quoted from pinmister:

It sounds like Trent is buying the game and will be swapping out the playfield and then reselling it on second market. I expect we will see a for sale ad from someone we know in Ohio soon. I can see it now, Ghostbusters LE with new un-ghosted playfield-$9000 or trade towards a HEP. Smart move Ghostbusters LE is a fantastic game, and worth every penny.

Given the sheer amount of work Trent does and how integral he is in our community and hobby, I hope he gets every cent he can for the game.

#304 3 years ago

Could you imagine if Stern included a letter like this with their games?
They encouraged operators to comment on quality, durability, serviceability and ideas to successfully manufacture future games!

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#305 3 years ago

I realize this bird has probably left the coop, but to put it a way an artist may understand (and I mean no personal offence):

Lets say you sold a limited series of art prints, aimed at collectors, and it ended up they were on super fade fast ink and the stuff you printed them on crumbled to boot.

Then you said to a few of the people you sold them to, hey we have a plan.

Then you clammed up and appeared to do diddly for 6 months.

Yeah, people might be pissed at you after a point, even your super fans who bought your premium art prints in the first place.

And if your answer was to take this up with whatever shipping company you used (or other intermediary between you and the buyer) rather than say "I screwed up, here is how I am going to fix this" yeah that might be considered part of the problem too.

#306 3 years ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

It has already launched. Given that only a small percentage of playfields are bad, the program can replace every playfield that meets their definition of bad knowing that most of those replacements will be fine, but they will have to replace some of the replacements.
Communication with the customer informing them of this would go a long way IMO.

how do you know what percentage of play fields are affected? Given Stern themselves have not been sure about the cause?

#307 3 years ago

Moral of the story for this whole thread...

DONT BUY STERN NIB UNTIL THE QC ISSUES ARE SOLVED!

-2
#308 3 years ago
Quoted from yuriijos:

Moral of the story for this whole thread...
DONT BUY STERN NIB UNTIL THE QC ISSUES ARE SOLVED!

Oooooh I though you were gonna say..... " Wheres the ring leader of this thread. He seems to have took a hiatus "

#309 3 years ago
Quoted from yuriijos:

Moral of the story for this whole thread...
DONT BUY STERN NIB UNTIL THE QC ISSUES ARE SOLVED!

*YMMV.

#310 3 years ago
Quoted from hoby1:

Oooooh I though you were gonna say..... " Wheres the ring leader of this thread. He seems to have took a hiatus "

Yeah I've been taking some time away from Pinside because this place can piss me off sometime lol.

I'm wondering if Stern is going to respond to my letter and publicly address the defects.

My distro is handling the return I assume on his own, Stern hasn't really done anything for me so I'm waiting for a response still.

#311 3 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

My distro is handling the return I assume on his own, Stern hasn't really done anything for me so I'm waiting for a response still.

Don't hold your breath.

#312 3 years ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

how do you know what percentage of play fields are affected? Given Stern themselves have not been sure about the cause?

907 Pinsiders have a Ghostbusters in their collection. The petition had how many signers with actual playfield problems? Did it eventually get to 20? And those included other games too.

So yes, it's a small percentage. If you have better data I'm interested.

#313 3 years ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

907 Pinsiders have a Ghostbusters in their collection. The petition had how many signers with actual playfield problems? Did it eventually get to 20? And those included other games too.
So yes, it's a small percentage. If you have better data I'm interested.

This is the reason why Stern is not ready to change anything in building their product and so offering a better quality. All this issue sucks and so many of us prefer to keep their playfield "made in China"

#314 3 years ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

907 Pinsiders have a Ghostbusters in their collection. The petition had how many signers with actual playfield problems? Did it eventually get to 20? And those included other games too.
So yes, it's a small percentage. If you have better data I'm interested.

well, not evbd is reading pinside (and in particulary this probs threads ! yes, sounds strange but some members here still didnt know), surelly also most of the exploitants didnt care at all, and even the letter has a overall/general view of the prob, suppose most of the guys who signed it are from USA (just because law & warranty are not the same, talking for me european)

i was one of the first to report probs with my GB (the very first production run, send here in Europe/Belgium), having finally my pinball fully swapped by my distro for a "good" one, and still waiting on STERN program-list by monthes, with absolutly no news from them...

than yes, i'm thinking this letter will change nothing (but respect to you KPG)
and than doing the only thing i can do for my own : no more NIB until things will really change, simple as that

that not means no more STERN, as i'm still loving what they've done, and surelly same for what they will build in the future, but better to not gamble with NIB, and wait/check for the HUO market, buying having all the needed infos on your side

#315 3 years ago
Quoted from RipleYYY:

well, not evbd is reading pinside (and in particulary this probs threads ! yes, sounds strange but some members here still didnt know), surelly also most of the exploitants didnt care at all, and even the letter has a overall/general view of the prob, suppose most of the guys who signed it are from USA (just because law & warranty are not the same, talking for me european)
i was one of the first to report probs with my GB (the very first production run, send here in Europe/Belgium), having finally my pinball fully swapped by my distro for a "good" one, and still waiting on STERN program-list by monthes, with absolutly no news from them...
than yes, i'm thinking this letter will change nothing (but respect to you KPG)
and than doing the only thing i can do for my own : no more NIB until things will really change, simple as that
that not means no more STERN, as i'm still loving what they've done, and surelly same for what they will build in the future, but better to not gamble with NIB, and wait/check for the HUO market, buying having all the needed infos on your side

I agree with the OP. This letter had to go out. As I have stated before these recent play feilds aren't right. Stern can do one of two things. Live in vacuum and say everything is great or address the problem. If Batman 66 play feilds were great kudos to stern. That was not the case. Same issues same denial. Raise the price of games and people are going to expect more. You don't buy a Premium product and pay a premium price then realize they did everything they could do to save a dime and then they go silent when issues arise. I would have a hard time buying a NIB stern until they publicly announce a fix to the issue. With guys like me and many others avoiding buying a NIB stern their sales will suffer quickly. I was a loyal stern customer until quality and profit was put ahead of the customer. I really don't understand that they don't understand this. Ghost Buster's and Batman 66 were incredible titles and sales were off the charts but they dropped the ball. You can pull the wool
over the buyers eyes once or twice but not time and time again. The debate on this issue is just starting and I imagine it will go legal in the end.

#316 3 years ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

I agree with the OP. This letter had to go out. As I have stated before these recent play feilds aren't right. Stern can do one of two things. Live in vacuum and say everything is great or address the problem. If Batman 66 play feilds were great kudos to stern. That was not the case. Same issues same denial. Raise the price of games and people are going to expect more. You don't buy a Premium product and pay a premium price then realize they did everything they could do to save a dime and then they go silent when issues arise. I would have a hard time buying a NIB stern until they publicly announce a fix to the issue. With guys like me and many others avoiding buying a NIB stern their sales will suffer quickly. I was a loyal stern customer until quality and profit was put ahead of the customer. I really don't understand that they don't understand this. Ghost Buster's and Batman 66 were incredible titles and sales were off the charts but they dropped the ball. You can pull the wool
over the buyers eyes once or twice but not time and time again. The debate on this issue is just starting and I imagine it will go legal in the end.

I agree mostly with you, but in all fairness to Stern I think that the Batman playfields havent really had very many issues so far. I think the Ghostbusters playfields have been too bad as of late either? Im kinda thinking the worst may be behind them now.

#317 3 years ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

With guys like me and many others avoiding buying a NIB stern their sales will suffer quickly.

Isn't Star Wars (Rumor Pin) Sold Out already??

#318 3 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

Yeah I've been taking some time away from Pinside because this place can piss me off sometime lol.
I'm wondering if Stern is going to respond to my letter and publicly address the defects.
My distro is handling the return I assume on his own, Stern hasn't really done anything for me so I'm waiting for a response still.

They aren't going to respond.

The vocal side of Pinside respresents such a small sliver of the home buying community, I think a thread like this is little more than a pebble in their shoe.

Bottom line: Don't buy NIB if you think Stern isn't manufacturing to a standard you consider ok.

#319 3 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

The vocal side of Pinside respresents such a small sliver of the home buying community, I think a thread like this is little more than a pebble in their shoe.

If Pinside people have 900 GB machines…how many did they make? Is that really a small number?

#320 3 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

If Pinside people have 900 GB machines…how many did they make? Is that really a small number?

I didn't say pinside... "vocal"

#321 3 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

They aren't going to respond.
The vocal side of Pinside respresents such a small sliver of the home buying community, I think a thread like this is little more than a pebble in their shoe.
Bottom line: Don't buy NIB if you think Stern isn't manufacturing to a standard you consider ok.

But they will jump to action....both times when KPG became vocal...Stern reacted...the first time when Gary called, and now Trent buying back the machine simmeringKPG down, if they didn't do that and KPG kept going I would have bet they would have responded. So the small vocal side of pinball had Stern on their feet if you ask me. Squeaky wheel get's the oil.

#322 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinballlew:

But they will jump to action....both times when KPG became vocal...Stern reacted...the first time when Gary called, and now Trent buying back the machine simmeringKPG down, if they didn't do that and KPG kept going I would have bet they would have responded. So the small vocal side of pinball had Stern on their feet if you ask me. Squeaky wheel get's the oil.

And in none of those scenarios did Stern "publicly address" as KPG puts it.

Sure "he" got a phone call and Trent (for reasons we don't know) is buying "his" game back. But in no way has his letter caused Stern to "publicly adress the defects" to their buying audience.

It's not going to happen. And if it does, I'd be completely shocked.

#323 3 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

And in none of those scenarios did Stern "publicly address" as KPG puts it.
Sure "he" got a phone call and Trent (for reasons we don't know) is buying "his" game back. But in no way has his letter caused Stern to "publicly adress the defects" to their buying audience.
It's not going to happen. And if it does, I'd be completely shocked.

Gary did mention it at the Expo seminar though.

#324 3 years ago

Jody mentioned it on one of the John's arcade Stern factory video tours.

#325 3 years ago

My estimate is 2000 to 2500 GB shipped and 3%- 5% affected.

#326 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinballlew:

Gary did mention it at the Expo seminar though.

Of course... they've "mentioned it" long before this thread.

I'm not intending to splice hairs... just saying, that you shouldn't expect Stern to respond to this kind of thread by growing a conscious and publicly by posting a notice on their homepage detailing defects... or sending letters to every single buyer in the last 2 years... they are not going to directly address this issue like a factory recall... they're not going to offerto buy back everyone's games.

They way it's being handled now is probably the way it's going to be handled going forward.

#327 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinballlew:

But they will jump to action....both times when KPG became vocal...Stern reacted...the first time when Gary called, and now Trent buying back the machine simmeringKPG down, if they didn't do that and KPG kept going I would have bet they would have responded. So the small vocal side of pinball had Stern on their feet if you ask me. Squeaky wheel get's the oil.

Doubt it . It's Trent buying the game back. Do you really think that his out burst made the difference. They would have taken care if it anyway. They do it a little sooner, and it's considered good PR

#328 3 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Wow! They'd rather buy it back than send you new playfield!? WTF?!?!
Guess it makes sense...they get the LE back, put a new PF in it, jack up the price and resell it.

That is what I would do. You give him a new playfield, pretty good chance he would not be happy with it. Just like he said, give him his money back and resell for more.

When you have a customer that is that far gone for what ever reason, right or wrong, best to cut ties.

#329 3 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

My estimate is 2000 to 2500 GB shipped and 3%- 5% affected.

I have no idea what the numbers are, but of the 4 local machines I've seen here, all 4 have ghosted inserts. One pro, one premium, two LEs. The premium is the latest build, which I think was September.

#330 3 years ago

I'm feeling really fortunate about my GB pro. No ghosting, normal dimpling, no Slimer issues. Thanks Game Exchange of Colorado!

I feel bad for those out there that haven't had the same good experience with this game. Hope they make it right.

#331 3 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

My estimate is 2000 to 2500 GB shipped and 3%- 5% affected.

I think it's more like 10%

Just because all cases haven't been reported to Pinside doesn't mean it's limited to only complaints here. It's bigger than most people think IMO

1 week later
#332 3 years ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

I do not have a B66.
But when I saw these pics, I am not ready to order another nib.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/batman-66-whats-your-impression/page/28#post-3544738

Holy crap Batman!!! I just saw this now. I'm sorry for the owner....for an NIB game (especially BM66 coming fresh off the line), that just looks absolutely horrible at this point. I would be beyond pissed off if that were my game....what is the PF made out of...foam? Well, at least foam would recoil. Stern has a serious QC issue they need to address pronto.

#333 3 years ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

Holy crap Batman!!! I just saw this now. I'm sorry for the owner....for an NIB game (especially BM66 coming fresh off the line), that just looks absolutely horrible at this point. I would be beyond pissed off if that were my game....what is the PF made out of...foam? Well, at least foam would recoil. Stern has a serious QC issue they need to address pronto.

Don't fret. Just ask all of the experts here. That type of cratering is completely normal. And like most other HUO games with a hundred-thousand plays (according to the experts), this one will smooth right out too. SMH

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