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(Topic ID: 178720)

Open Letter to Gary Stern re: Defective Playfields


By kpg

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 333 posts
  • 93 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by ExtremePinball
  • Topic is favorited by 10 Pinsiders

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There are 333 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 7.
#151 3 years ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

Man I don't get why people are ripping on KPG so hard. He spent 8k on a toy and expects it to be perfect, Stern admits it's defective and doesn't alleviate the situation. I can understand fully why he's so upset. What I don't understand is why there are people that are such gaping assholes on pinside defending Stern so strongly when they're clearly in the wrong.

They may be members of the "Stern Watch" and cannot leave their post.

"Pinside gathers for a new Stern release, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until I'm banned. I shall take only Stern games, hold no JJP games, father no children who want to buy non Stern games. I shall not up-vote negative Stern posts and win no posting glory. I shall live and die at my computer desk. I am the stuck ball in the darkness. I am the watcher on the forums. I am the shield that guards the realms of Stern. I pledge my life and honor to the Stern Watch, for this game and for all Stern games to come."

11
#152 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

They may be members of the "Stern Watch" and cannot leave their post.
"Pinside gathers for a new Stern release, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until I'm banned. I shall take only Stern games, hold no JJP games, father no children who want to buy non Stern games. I shall not up-vote negative Stern posts and win no posting glory. I shall live and die at my computer desk. I am the stuck ball in the darkness. I am the watcher on the forums. I am the shield that guards the realms of Stern. I pledge my life and honor to the Stern Watch, for this game and for all Stern games to come."

You do realize how ironic this is coming from you, right?

Aren't you the Jon Snow of the "JJP Watch?"

#153 3 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

WTF??? This sounds like a word problem only Lonny has the answer to.

lol

#154 3 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

You do realize how ironic this is coming from you, right?
Aren't you the Jon Snow of the "JJP Watch?"

I can see how some could see that, lol. Just all in good fun between all of the arguing.

#155 3 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I'm shocked that you're on the side of a company selling defective products and not fixing them as promised.
This is all very simple.
-Stern sold defective games.
-Stern acknowledged games were defective.
-Stern claims they fixed the problem.
-Stern continues to manufacture games with problems allegedly fixed.
If the playfields are in fact fixed...why do customers have to pull teeth to get a replacement?

FWIW I just took delivery of a SMVE last week. So far no issues. Build date Nov 28, 2016. No ghosting last I looked.

#156 3 years ago
Quoted from chadderack:

FWIW I just took delivery of a SMVE last week. So far no issues. Build date Nov 28, 2016. No ghosting last I looked.

Hope it stays awesome. Like I've said before, it's a crapshoot. Yours might look like a beautiful sheet of glass after 2000 plays while someone else's looks like lumps of clay.

#157 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

They may be members of the "Stern Watch" and cannot leave their post.
"Pinside gathers for a new Stern release, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until I'm banned. I shall take only Stern games, hold no JJP games, father no children who want to buy non Stern games. I shall not up-vote negative Stern posts and win no posting glory. I shall live and die at my computer desk. I am the stuck ball in the darkness. I am the watcher on the forums. I am the shield that guards the realms of Stern. I pledge my life and honor to the Stern Watch, for this game and for all Stern games to come."

At least I know who I can take a dump in an old Stern box and sell it for 8k to.

#158 3 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Hope it stays awesome. Like I've said before, it's a crapshoot. Yours might look like a beautiful sheet of glass after 2000 plays while someone else's looks like lumps of clay.

And I've got no problem with someone wanting their defective game replaced or refunded. If it were me, I'd feel the same.

#159 3 years ago
Quoted from hoby1:

If I was Trent I would do the buyback, then wait for my new PF and be a cool 1500 in the green as market seems to demand 8500

Weren't they 8k nib?

#160 3 years ago

I thought they were like 7200 but I not sure anymore. Stern pricing for the prem is 6700

#161 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I said that to someone else last night. Has a bit of a narcissistic feel to it. Kaneda jr. No offense, I like Chris and Kris.

-3
#162 3 years ago

My three year old could have written a more effective letter. And I don't even have kids!

#163 3 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

The entirety of JY64's presence on Pinside has been to shill for Stern and to criticize other manufacturers.

There are lots of sockpuppets on here but this one is either Jody or Jared.

11
#164 3 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

POSITIVE resolution has arrived
In the form of a buy back, thanks to my distributor.
I won't be updating until next week and I still hope Stern will respond publicly, but this is a positive step in the right direction.

How is this a positive step in fixing the playfield issues? Clearly it helps you, but a buyback is a payoff, not a solution.

#165 3 years ago

Time to move on unless Kpg is going to continue to take up the cause of fighting everyone else's battles.

Worked out the way it should. Your distributor should handle any issue you might have with your pinball machine.

Wtf happened with Trent? Who knows. Lesson learned there.

Kpg and everybody else, let's have several beers and hug it out (except for the Db's )

It's still a very small community and shit storms need to end up without people killing each other.

First round of beers is on me at TPF!

#166 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Time to move on unless Kpg is going to continue to take up the cause of fighting everyone else's battles.
Worked out the way it should. Your distributor should handle any issue you might have with your pinball machine.
Wtf happened with Trent? Who knows. Lesson learned there.
Kpg and everybody else, let's have several beers and hug it out (except for the Db's )
It's still a very small community and shit storms need to end up without people killing each other.
First round of beers is on me at TPF!

It's all good Iceman. I'm always down to have a beer with you. Maybe play some pinball and do some arm wrestling and hit the beer bong like some old college kids at this point lol

Either way, I think everyone with an affected playfield needs to push their distributors to do the right thing.

I am not sure if Trent is buying back w/ his own cash, or he's forcing Stern to accept the return.. but credit where credit is due, and Trent is going to make it right. I spoke with him today on the phone and he's a great guy. If my head is ever hit hard enough where I suffer some type of brain damage, and want to buy another NIB Stern, Trent has my business for sure!

But really, I feel bad for the guy. He must have so much shit to deal with this playfield debacle. Stern's silence has hurt the distro's more than anyone.. in my opinion!

#167 3 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

It's all good Iceman. I'm always down to have a beer with you. Maybe play some pinball and do some arm wrestling and hit the beer bong like some old college kids at this point lol
Either way, I think everyone with an affected playfield needs to push their distributors to do the right thing.
I am not sure if Trent is buying back w/ his own cash, or he's forcing Stern to accept the return.. but credit where credit is due, and Trent is going to make it right. I spoke with him today on the phone and he's a great guy. If my head is ever hit hard enough where I suffer some type of brain damage, and want to buy another NIB Stern, Trent has my business for sure!
But really, I feel bad for the guy. He must have so much shit to deal with this playfield debacle. Stern's silence has hurt the distro's more than anyone.. in my opinion!

Not me ..... I heard dist's make 10% on each game sold. Sell 5 games a month and your making a decent living

#168 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

They may be members of the "Stern Watch" and cannot leave their post.
"Pinside gathers for a new Stern release, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until I'm banned. I shall take only Stern games, hold no JJP games, father no children who want to buy non Stern games. I shall not up-vote negative Stern posts and win no posting glory. I shall live and die at my computer desk. I am the stuck ball in the darkness. I am the watcher on the forums. I am the shield that guards the realms of Stern. I pledge my life and honor to the Stern Watch, for this game and for all Stern games to come."

Cubs or White Sox fans?

-5
#169 3 years ago
#170 3 years ago
Quoted from SHOOTTHEPYRAMID:

oh yeah, you feel bad for the guy for all the shit he has to deal with???? thats a laugh. what percent of the shit he has to deal with is directly related to you? if he is buying the game back, and not stern, then my above comment about being payed to not be dealt with is almost certainly true on his end. you are a direct threat to his bottom line, id be willing to bet you pester him about the issue more than anyone else. when stern wouldnt respond, you attacked the next person in line. And now that hes giving you what you want to keep quiet, you feel "bad for the guy". is there any limit to your entitlement???

Buying an $8000 game and expecting it to not fall apart is entitlement? Thanking his distributor and having empathy for his business due to Stern's poor QC is entitlement?

#171 3 years ago
Quoted from hoby1:

Not me ..... I heard dist's make 10% on each game sold. Sell 5 games a month and your making a decent living

Sure, if you don't have to deal with pesky costs like inventory, employees, a warehouse/showroom, utilities, support costs and general business expenses ...

Even then, no one is going to get rich selling 5 games a month.

#172 3 years ago

WORST.THREAD.EVER.

#173 3 years ago
Quoted from hoby1:

How much is the buy back ...... like I said before I'm sure folks in here would give you what the preorder price was . Would save them a bunch on an LE
Will you be continueing the fight for all the others that have supported you Kris like promised ?

This...... offer the game up to Pinsiders for the buyback price that you payed including your shipping costs...

-34
#174 3 years ago

I retract my statement

14
#175 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinballlew:

This...... offer the game up to Pinsiders for the buyback price that you payed including your shipping costs...

The buy back price shouldn't be a penny under the purchase price. If you buy a new TV for 1,000 dollars and it doesn't work are you going to be happy with 750.00 when you return it? You people on here amaze me! KPG got a defective product and then terrible customer service and you guys think he is an asshole for being pissed off......all I can say is WOW! I guarantee every one of you guys that are ragging on him have taken stuff back for a refund that cost far less than 8 thousand dollars and bitched the people out at the store when you got treated like shit and ignored. I know I sure have! When you pay good money for something it's suppose to be a quality product and if it's not it should be made right in a acceptable amount of time PERIOD!

18
#176 3 years ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

Sometimes a company realizes there are some customers not worth having as a customer. Cause they cause too much trouble and cost more than they are worth in the long term. If I were Stern I would buy back his game at full price with a contract that forbids him from ever buying another Stern product and ever publicly speaking of Stern in any form or fashion. It's not uncommon. There are retail stores that ban extremely frequent returners. Cell phone companies have told high data usage users to go away.....Etc. Not every customer is a good customer.

He's a bad customer because he got sold a bad product that they didn't fix in a reasonable amount of time? You cannot be serious?

#177 3 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

He's a bad customer because he got sold a bad product that they didn't fix in a reasonable amount of time? You cannot be serious?

He's a victim blamer. We're all consumers here. Why go to bat for the company making shoddy product and charging a premium for it? Guarantee if Wacky got a defective game, he'd change his tune.

#178 3 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

He's a bad customer because he got sold a bad product that they didn't fix in a reasonable amount of time? You cannot be serious?

Wouldn't call him a bad customer. I think many would agree his approach was pretty extreme. I was in the same situation as KPG until January 4th, but never even considered publicly lambasting Stern pinball, even though I waited 6 months also. They are good people and will make things right. I don't doubt that his constant Stern bashing didn't help the situation.

Could Stern (and maybe Trent) have put more effort in resolving this quicker? For sure.

Is it taking too long to fix these issues? Absolutely. Even Stern would tell you that over a beer.

#179 3 years ago
Quoted from hoby1:

Not me ..... I heard dist's make 10% on each game sold. Sell 5 games a month and your making a decent living

25% to 50% discount is most common in a dealer/reseller relationship. 35% typical.

#180 3 years ago
Quoted from Mark_in_PA:

25% to 50% discount is most common in a dealer/reseller relationship. 35% typical.

No way. Not distros in this industry. 8%.

#181 3 years ago

"This...... offer the game up to Pinsiders for the buyback price that you payed including your shipping costs..."

Quoted from Who-Dey:

The buy back price shouldn't be a penny under the purchase price. If you buy a new TV for 1,000 dollars and it doesn't work are you going to be happy with 750.00 when you return it? You people on here amaze me! KPG got a defective product and then terrible customer service and you guys think he is an asshole for being pissed off......all I can say is WOW! I guarantee every one of you guys that are ragging on him have taken stuff back for a refund that cost far less than 8 thousand dollars and bitched the people out at the store when you got treated like shit and ignored. I know I sure have! When you pay good money for something it's suppose to be a quality product and if it's not it should be made right in a acceptable amount of time PERIOD!

What are you talking about? I said offer the game up here for sale for what he payed plus shipping to pass along the game to another pinsider that would want his LE. That's all. I didn't say take anything less then what he payed from anyone. I was simply stating hey a pinsider might want to purchase his game for whatever Trent is going to buy the game back at which I would hope would be KPG full purchase price including shipping.

#182 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinballlew:

"This...... offer the game up to Pinsiders for the buyback price that you payed including your shipping costs..."

What are you talking about? I said offer the game up here for sale for what he payed plus shipping to pass along the game to another pinsider that would want his LE. That's all. I didn't say take anything less then what he payed from anyone. I was simply stating hey a pinsider might want to purchase his game for whatever Trent is going to buy the game back at which I would hope would be KPG full purchase price including shipping.

Who the hell is going to buy a GBLE with a TRASHED playfield for what he paid for it? You would have to be an idiot to do something like that lol. Are you being serious right now???

#183 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Of course not.
Congrats Kpg, you made yourself into such an obnoxious PITA that Stern decided they want to have nothing to do with you
Anybody that owns a business knows what I'm talking about.
There's always a few people that come along that I'd rather jam a fork in my eye than deal with or try and make happy
Have fun with your Bally pins! You just made the blacklist

Yeah, the black list, lol.

#184 3 years ago

Ditto..I just got it.

#185 3 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Wouldn't call him a bad customer. I think many would agree his approach was pretty extreme. I was in the same situation as KPG until January 4th, but never even considered publicly lambasting Stern pinball, even though I waited 6 months also. They are good people and will make things right. I don't doubt that his constant Stern bashing didn't help the situation.
Could Stern (and maybe Trent) have put more effort in resolving this quicker? For sure.
Is it taking too long to fix these issues? Absolutely. Even Stern would tell you that over a beer.

I respectfully disagree sorry. He didnt fly off the handle and start bashing Stern until he was ignored repeatedly. Finally they got back with him and he was happy with the deal they worked out. They didnt come through on their end and he contacted them only to be blew off again, so he got pissed again and voiced his anger on here, I dont blame him. I know Stern is a good company and I know people that know Gary and they say he is awesom, and I 100% believe that but what happened wasnt KPG's fault. Im thankful for what stern has done for this hobby believe me and I love Stern Pinball, best games ever made imo. With that being said though if my GB that im getting ready to buy is defective, I expect them to make it right and establish communication with me and keep me up to date on everything.

#186 3 years ago

IMO Stern should be concentrating on making things right for the people who are not considered Fanbois, customer service 101...why waste time on Fanbois, they already drink the kool-aid, the meh (middle) guys can go either way but are easier to win over when there are no detractors making a lots of negative noise (even when it is valid). Win those guys over (by doing the right thing) and they usually become supporters not part of the meh crowd...like I said basic customer service.

#187 3 years ago
Quoted from Sly_Old_Devil:

IMO Stern should be concentrating on making things right for the people who are not considered Fanbois, customer service 101...why waste time on Fanbois, they already drink the kool-aid, the meh (middle) guys can go either way but are easier to win over when there are no detractors making a lots of negative noise (even when it is valid). Win those guys over (by doing the right thing) and they usually become supporters not part of the meh crowd...like I said basic customer service.

If im in business, I want to win EVERY customer over from the poor guy who buys one pin to the rich guy that buys 30 pins.

-4
#188 3 years ago
Quoted from Sly_Old_Devil:

IMO Stern should be concentrating on making things right for the people who are not considered Fanbois, customer service 101...why waste time on Fanbois, they already drink the kool-aid, the meh (middle) guys can go either way but are easier to win over when there are no detractors making a lots of negative noise (even when it is valid). Win those guys over (by doing the right thing) and they usually become supporters not part of the meh crowd...like I said basic customer service.

WORST.THREAD.EVER.

#189 3 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Who the hell is going to buy a GBLE with a TRASHED playfield for what he paid for it? You would have to be an idiot to do something like that lol. Are you being serious right now???

Yes I am serious, you do not see the value in buying this game for what $7500 then negotiating with Stern to get a New LE playfield...your money ahead on a game that has been sold out for a long time.

#190 3 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

If im in business, I want to win EVERY customer over from the poor guy who buys one pin to the rich guy that buys 30 pins.

Correct, but you want to do it as efficiently as possible right? Spend the most effort where it has the best business results, is what I'm saying.

#191 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinballlew:

Yes I am serious, you do not see the value in buying this game for what $7500 then negotiating with Stern to get a New LE playfield...your money ahead on a game that has been sold out for a long time.

No I dont see the value in that even a little bit. I would not give him that kind of money for his game and cross my fingers that I will get a new playfield someday for it.

#192 3 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

No I dont see the value in that even a little bit. I would not give him that kind of money for his game and cross my fingers that I will get a new playfield someday for it.

OK I bet others on here would.

#193 3 years ago
Quoted from Mark_in_PA:

25% to 50% discount is most common in a dealer/reseller relationship. 35% typical.

that is COMPLETELY dependent on industry.. and a pipe dream in pinball

#194 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinballlew:

OK I bet others on here would.

Nobody has made him that offer and they know he is wanting to sell it.

#195 3 years ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

WORST.THREAD.EVER.

Stick around for a year or two

#196 3 years ago
Quoted from chadderack:

Stick around for a year or two

You mean a week or two right?

#197 3 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

You mean a week or two right?

Yes.

#198 3 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

I respectfully disagree sorry. He didnt fly off the handle and start bashing Stern until he was ignored repeatedly

If you mean going all the way back to making noise about 'where is the gameplay video' and prior.. you'd be on the right track

#199 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinballlew:

Yes I am serious, you do not see the value in buying this game for what $7500 then negotiating with Stern to get a New LE playfield...your money ahead on a game that has been sold out for a long time.

I'm not sure the warranty transfers over the second buyer? Besides, there should be no need for that, the distro can take the game back(have confidentiality and non disclosure signed), get the play field warranty/swapped then resell for close to what he took the game back less the cost to ship it back. Factor in the game might have grossed $600+ on the original sale. Doesn't appear to cost much to take him out of the game.

I'd look at the situation from a business perspective. How much do I have to pay to not have anymore threads like this(from at least this customer)? How much to get rid of this problem? Answer is roughly $0-$300? I think there is even a Facebook page on this topic, it just popped up on my feed yesterday. They had to know by past postings this was not the guy to make wait as he had the propensity to go nuclear. It puzzles me that it took so long to make what would seem a fairly low cost solution to this one very public customer. Easy to play Monday night quarterback I guess.

They have always taken care of me on any issues, unfortunate for everyone this one had to go nuclear to get resolution. Not good for everyone involved.

#200 3 years ago
Quoted from Sly_Old_Devil:

Correct, but you want to do it as efficiently as possible right? Spend the most effort where it has the best business results, is what I'm saying.

Yeah, one of the ways to do that is competently run QC control, rather than working hard at winning back customers your cheapassery and incompetence has pissed off... maybe don't piss off your luxury toy buyers in the first place?

edit: and anybody judging KPG for taking this kind of action, just think how long Stern has had to make this right? And after waiting months after he received a personal phone call from Gary Stern promising to make it right... followed by radio silence.

I don't think there was a random offer for a buyback this week out of the blue. These tactics seemed to have Stern scared.

I am sure everybody else would have just crossed their fingers and hoped that out of the blue Stern was going to honor their commitments "cause like they're good guys and stuff".

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