(Topic ID: 2192)

OOPS, the Shadow is broken again.

By bugray

13 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 25 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 13 years ago by drbond
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 13 years ago

Any suggestions to help me fix my latest problems,

It all started yesterday while playing the Shadow with no errors.

1ST, the drop down wall target didn't return up (or down I cant remeber), upon investigation the wall target has snapped at the very bottom causing it to wedge in its either up or down position, I may try and fix or get a new one.

While I saw this I noticed diode across switch on this assembly was loose and i soldered it in place.

2ND, upon power up I now get 3 nasty messages,

GND SHORT ROW 1
CHECK SWITCH 51 WALL TARGET DOWN
ER. WALL TGT. BAD CHK SWITCH/COIL

3RD, so now I have no switches in row 1 operational.

In test solonoid mode the wall target will go up and down no problems, also I can't test the switch as it is row 1. I assume the coils on assembly are fine as they are working in tests.

Is it possible a broken diode can take out a whole row?

Any hints or clues to speed up my fault finding.

#2 13 years ago

Make sure that diode is good and on correctly. I'm guessing that your gonna have a board problem though. To determine this disconnect the switch connectors on the CPU board. If the errors still appears the problem is on the board, if not it will be on the playfield. Once thats done we'll be able to figure out which way ya need to go.

#3 13 years ago

"Is it possible a broken diode can take out a whole row?"

-yes

#4 13 years ago

"The Shadow Knows !!!" hehehe

#5 13 years ago

Was it the Sanctum Wall, bugray? I'm pretty sure you can find a replacement from Marco's for $25.

http://www.marcospecialties.com/product.asp?ic=03%2D9210

The one in my Shadow had to be adjusted from below the playfield. Luckily it wasn't broken. It wasn't adjusted correctly, and was neither in the down or up position, but rather halfway up. I might end up ordering a replacement wall from Marco's eventually.

#6 13 years ago

Hmmm... I think I had those problems after shopping out my Shadow...The targets needs to be in the up position when the game boots up, otherwise the game gets confused. Try that and see if it helps.

#7 13 years ago

Hi, thanks for your suggestions, I've had no luck fixing it yet.

Here's what I checked out so far, no transistor faults found on the driver board.

The sanctum wall drop down target assembly all checks out I think, both coils, switch and diode both fine too.

Playfield and cabinet switches and wiring looked over to see if anything is touching something it shouldn't.

Each switch on the Row 1 looked over, I have yet to check these diodes.

I pulled off connectors J107 + J109 and the display was still telling me I have a ground short row 1 as well as the other original faults, was that the correct way to check if the problem is circuit board or playfield?

Back to more research.

#8 13 years ago

Clutching at straws here,

Does anyone know if there should be a diode across the larger coil on the sanctum wall target assembly??

#9 13 years ago

You can remove a diode at one end and a coil will still work without it. It's mostly a reverse voltage surge protection thing. So if you want to try it you can. A bad/hurt diode will cause a coil to not work when attached. Just don't run the machine without the diode except for troubleshooting in the short term.

To add a little more info coils are essentially electromagnets creating an electromagnetic field. As they shut down the field tends to reverse polarity in a much less powerful way. The diode blocks this minor reversal from happening across the coil. Without the diode blocking this damage will eventually happen to the components driving it.

#10 13 years ago

if something shorted and blew that diode - it will take everything down - happened on my taxi, two new diodes on the flipper coil and it was all back up and working.

#11 13 years ago

Based on what you've done so far I think you blew a chip or chips on the CPU board as a result of that diode breaking off. Clay's guide had the procedure for determing this. It's quite a bit of reading but you can get the testing procedure there. I think the most likely culprit is U20, but it could have gone back further.

#12 13 years ago

Yep, I've just been reading on cpu board chips, I'm gonna look at U20, then U18 and U19, hopefully I have some of these chips in a drawer. Also I'm gonna check out the under playfield opto board as well.

So if a coil didn't originally have a diode across the lugs and I put one on, could this do any damage?

#13 13 years ago

Today little progress, the santum wall assembly is back under the playfield and my attempt to fix the drop target has worked, I used JB weld.

I also lucked out and have chips to replace the suspected faulty ones.

I changed U20 and no change, however one of the error messages has now gone(CHECK SWITCH 51 WALL TARGET DOWN)

I think this was due to the santum wall assembly being put back.

The real issue is still to be found and I'll give it another bash tomorrow.

#14 13 years ago

If you add a diode to a DC coil just make sure to put it in the proper direction. The banded end goes to the negative (-) side. Usually a 1N4004 diode will work in most pinball applications.

#15 13 years ago

Do you know if it's possible to have faulty LM339 at U18,U19 while the ULN2803 at U20 is all good?

#16 13 years ago

There is also a method for checking the transistors and pre drive transistors - I think clay mentions it but basically you quickly ground the row to determine if you have blown those items - I would first fix your diode then get working on the board testing.

#17 13 years ago

Yes it is possible for a diode to take out a whole row.

I had a similar problem on my nba fastbreak with all the switches in a row out. First definately unplug the connector from the board and "buzz meter it back to all the switches in that row from the plugs for the ground wire( grn-?) and the power (white-?).

If it is all good go to the pinball repair site (switches not working)and use a diode and a jumper to manually test the switches at the driver board, like fusion says.
And buzz out each switch to check if the diode is ok (fwd/rev)- (activated -non activated)
Step by step instructions in the online repair guide.

I thought it was U18-U19 as well but it was a combo of diodes, loose connections and a U20 problem as a switch was shorted to a coil. That is pretty much the only way the chip at U20 or U18-U19 will fail, and as long as your machine was fused correctly U18 should be ok. U18-U19 are run through U20 so if its good they should be too.

And if nothing was shorted to a coil or lamp matrix it is one of these issues or a combo
Wiring/connectors -loose broken
diode-broken or non working
transistor or predriver-shorted or non functioning

Because of your row grnd short error.. it is more than likely a shorted transistor controlling that row. To be sure do the diode test. in the switch matrix test. you can also unplug the connector to that row while the machine is on in the switch matrix test.
This will also let you know if its in the wiring or the driver board.
(follow online repair guide, to do this)
Or a diode/power lead is touching something under the playfield shorting that row to ground.

Go with the Williams pinball repair tips step by step for each issue you have. Just take your time and as long as you go through each step it should be fixed in no time.

#18 13 years ago

Hi all, I appreciate your time, patience, help and advice. It is helping me as there is a lot of info to digest and understand.

Well I put the game into switch test 1 and THEN removed the connectors on cpu, previously I had been removing the connectors first and then trying stuff and having no luck.

Once it was all unplugged the row 1 ground short vanished + others, which hopefully means the problem is on the playfield or cab and not on the circuit boards, then plugged them back in.

I disconnected every under playfield connector one at a time to look any changes in the switch test, when connector J3 was removed from the "10 opto switch pcb" A-18159-1,
the Row 1 ground short disappeared, then I tested all switches on the playfield and got a good result, ALL switches are working except for the opto's.

Unfortunately there are two opto switches on Row 1, one of the opto's is on a ramp, the other is in the ball trough, so I havn't discovered the real problem only narrowed it down I think. I had a brief look at the board and two opto's and cant see any obvious fault, so it's back to reading up again.

A couple of questions to see me on to the next stage,

Do you think i'm on the right track?

Can damaged opto parts such as infra red diode/ infra red photo transistor cause row shorts?

Do you think the problem is on the opto board?, it has three LM339's on there and diodes too.

Is there a way to test opto's? in this situation.

Thanks.

#19 13 years ago

Good news...

After replacing the three LM339 chips on the opto switch board the "ground short row 1" is fixed.

Wow this was a hard fix for me, and I probably took the long route to discover the problem. I don't know if all three chips were broken, but at least one was.

The drop target I fixed broke again, same place, so I will need to deal with this. Also one error message saying "ER. WALL TGT. BAD CHK SWITCH/COIL", but I'm not to worried, I think this message will go away when the drop target works in conjuntion with the drop solonoid. Both solonoids and switch all work independently, it just needs to be properly tested and with the broken target I cant at the mo.

Thanks guys and merry christmas.

#20 13 years ago

Great to hear bugray! Looks like you figured this one out before the holiday. Now, to see if you can get it working (error free) in order to play your Shadow during the holiday break.

#21 13 years ago

Completely fixed now,

That JB weld is great stuff, but not for fixing a crack in the bottom of the sanctum wall drop target. I have used an alternative fix for now and it's holding up v.well.

While the glass was off and was giving this target mech a good workout, I played(cheated) my way to the wizard mode, how cool is this game. It's very hard and I can't wait to do it for real. Does anybody else like to take the glass off their machines to play just to see all that the game has to offer??

#22 13 years ago

glass off is a great way to practice shots. I set up the same shot over and over

#23 13 years ago

I have only done that on the BF because I didn't understand the Two Face Coins description in the manual. Wasn't written very well.

I do take the glass off to practice a shot over and over though.

#24 13 years ago

Topless machines are naughty but let you see and play with their bits ... hehe

#25 13 years ago

I was just playing Shadow again the other day. I should have been moving on and cleaning up my other machine playfields, but got sucked in like a tractor beam by the game. I can't really explain it. Only a regular Shadow player can explain the addictiviness of the game. Almost got to the final battle without using a buy-in on a 3 ball game.

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