I liked the cabinet art on the pro a lot better (if you are going to pay for a licensed pin, you should get pictures of the cast). But, the crossbow is a big part of the show (and likely the pin also) and that is only available on the LE. I don't really want to pay extra for artificial scarcity and a couple signatures on the LE. For me paying $6500 for a premium is the ideal option. If they never offer a premium, I save $6500 and there are a lot of other great pins that can be had for that.

I prefer LEs because you get the absolute top of the line and generally it holds the extra value, so it is a no brainer to me. In this case I have not put aside the money ahead of time, so I am a little light on cash right now. If this game turns out to be as good as it looks, I will get one some day. It will either be a premium or LE. I don't do Pros, so that is out. I hope they come out with a premium in case the LEs go up in value.

They prob have a minimum parts order. What if they order 1000 Zombie heads, Crossbows, plastic sets, etc. but only sell 200 games?

In my opinion, Stern does not want to sell anything cheaper. They want to make as much money as possible by selling as many LEs for as high a price as the market will bear.

Announcing a premium from the jump could get in the way of LE sales. Judging from some of the responses in this thread, for a few, the uncertainty may have been enough to tip the scales towards buying the LE now instead of waiting for an unknown later.

I don't see any problem with announcing a premium later to cash in on a hot market, if there is one. As you said, the development costs (other than some art changes perhaps) are already done, so why not leverage that into more profit?

You don't?

How about because doing so will have the exact opposite effect of what they are trying to accomplish by not having a Premium: quick sales of the LE or pro.

If people see Stern release a Premium version of TWD down the road, people will be much less likely to buy the pro or LE on the next release, knowing that if the game is good Stern will announce the Premium version later. A ton of people would wait it out on future titles. Not exactly something that Stern wants, I would think.

Really? I don't think so. How often do we hear people say "never again will I pre-order" or "play before I pay", only to jump in on next title because they just can't resist?

Uncertainty makes people fill in the blanks on their own, if it helps to justify a purchase great for Stern. If it makes people not purchase, bad for Stern. That's the line they walk.

Yes really.

I don't understand how you can disagree with that? You don't think more people would take a wait and see attitude, and wait to play it, if they knew that a Premium version was coming later?

You don't think that there are plenty of people out there right now who ordered the TWD LE simply because there is no Premium version currently offered?

Really?

I might buy a prem w good code!

"I would not buy one in a boat. I would not buy one with a goat."

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I'll probably just end up playing Rob's LE while he has it.

Nope.

I think plenty of people will claim that they are going to take a wait and see attitude. But that (very prudent) position will evaporate when the next shiny new toy hits the market. It happens every time. What about all the people who wrote-off pre-orders due to software delays? Effectively no impact if distribs are telling the truth about brisk sells.

Stern can do whatever they want but when the next cool game is released, all is forgiven.

A person that does not understand the idea of lead time, lot orders and production efficiencies would recommend built to order games.

nope, Stern

Everyone wants to wait and see for a premium? Go ahead, I hope stern charges 9k for it because they are running their line to make the games now, they are sourcing the parts to make the game now, they have the people trained to build the game now.

For those of who say I want to wait and see if I like the title and I want a complete code, go ahead. You will win some and lose some. An example, mustang as you can have one much cheaper as the game isn't the best but sometimes you will lose out on an opportunity like MET LE. Build a title and move on, that is what they have done all these years, with the exception of a few small rerun games. You want them to stop producing the number of titles they do per year and focus on games with complete code or do you want them to continue to pump out title after title and continue to work on the code as time passes? I would prefer more titles and them to continually update the code. I say thank you stern for one step closer to the 1 version of each title. I feel that the elimination of the premium brand is a good thing, given they are beefing up the pros. Next they will hopefully eliminate the LE and build just one damn version of the game, until then keep them coming stern.

But I can buy a nice METle right now

I guess that would be me.

Very true. Bought a NIB METLE last month. Was no problem finding one.... good price too!

The question is how many people are buying the LE or the pro because they don't have another choice.The premium is the one for me,alot of pros will be out on locations or people who don't want to spend 7k plus on a pin,but a lot of collectors do,and want to have all the bells and whistles that a Premium would come with.

You can also buy a nice Tron LE right now.

It saves time and money to run the titles until they are done producing them. I would rather them do this and put out the number of titles per year they have been. Sorry not trying to pick on you, but I find it frustrating how many of us criticize Stern for improving the build quality of their pro game and then complain about the price or the fact that there is not a premium title available? If they did a premium title, what exactly could they have done to differentiate the LE? Art? Also I am sure there are plenty of people out there who will now purchase an LE rather than the premium. I would normally just purchase a premium if the playfield toys are the same and save the money from an LE, but now that I don't have a choice, they just sold one more LE.

Ditto for me. Hate the artwork on the LE's cabinet.

The question should be..... who would pay $7800 for a Premium?

I would buy a premium.

Also has anyone considered asking their distributors if what they paid for the game increased? Stern is not making the extra money on this title, it was done to help distributors.

Considering that no one will pay a distributor close to $7800 for an LE, why would they pay this for a Premium?

Ok guys. No premiums are in the plans. Period. No vault editions later. Period.

Stern is going with a solid 600 number of LE's, not too many, not too little, then gonna churn out as many pros as the distro's want.

Btw, I typed period, then ended that one word sentence with a period. Hmmph.

Looks weird readin' it.

I didn't even pay that much for my LE

Just assuming that would be the suggested retail price.

But my gut tells me it ain't gonna happen! Stern has been pretty upfront about what level of machine you can get when they go on sale. WHAT makes anyone think they will change that business model now?

You certainly seem to have good information, but I find it very strange that a Premium model is not being considered.
I personally will never buy a Pro version. I could buy an LE, but timing wise, I should wait until December ($).
If they're only making 600 LEs, that's a lot of work and effort for only 600 units, isn't it?
Bottom line is: Stern wants to make money. Why NOT make a Premium version available?

The LE is the premium. What other art package could they use to water it down? Maybe that has something to do with it.

Just buy an LE , play it for a month and sell it for 10k.

The Pro's. Just like Metallica, Avengers, AC/DC.

Or something close, yes. But if they are going to announce a premium, they should do it before any money changes hands or there may end up being quite a few unhappy customers on both sides of the fence.

Exactly.

Like I said before, most arguments saying Stern will release a Premium comes from their hopes of that happening rather than from evidence or logic.

Many also seem to be absolutely convinced that Stern would lose a lot of money by not offering a premium version, as though Stern has no clue as to what they are doing from a business standpoint when this probably isn't the case at all. Lots of armchair business experts here.

That is exactly what I am saying. I work for one of the largest companies in the world, Stern is a joke compared to the expectation that is required of me at my job daily. They spend no time understanding their customer or enhancing their business model. Simple example..........Why is it that people have to send out their Stern armor to get powder coated, because Stern doesn't offer it as an after market.................How long did it take them to figure out LEDs or as Gary likes to say, "Trick out games"...................WTF??? Are you really defending them??

I agree that Stern's marketing is unconventional and questionable, but I wouldn't second guess them about staying focused on their core business. Getting involved in too much "small stuff" has been the downfall of many companies. It's the same reason they don't sell direct.

Overall, they seem to be growing at a manageable pace and broadening their range with higher end versions, VE's, different/better art packages, etc. They are still a relatively small business that probably doesn't have the resources or risk diversification to act like a large company.

I just don't get why they spoon-feed information about their games once they launch - when will we see a video of the gameplay.

Great post, but you are giving Stern way too much credit. There is nothing to "get", if we could get Stern's own people in a room, they would tell you that the company they work for is foolish about many things. I understand business, small and large. Cash flow and overhead are all that matter. We have seen the mod business grow to become pretty impressive. The margins and penny profit in this arena far exceed those in pinball manufacturing. Yet, Stern has not even released a damn topper for one of their games...............Again, you are giving them too much credit.

i think stern is doing a great job giving us the things we want! they just temporarily dropped the ball here and need to accommodate the premium customers that they created in the first place.

Just because the can sell games to the same small group of jackasses over & over again doesn't give me blind faith in their business expertise.

Maybe. I figure they have a bunch of creative types and Gary who's just enjoying the ride and isn't in it at this point for the money. So it probably comes down to the venture capitalist firm. I don't really know anything about them other than they are likely making a healthy return and are typically all about managing cash and pumping up the company to sell at a premium when the time is right. I have a great job but would love to run Stern and agree that they could do even better.

It's lunacy to even start arguing stuff like this. For example, Stern is moving to a larger factory right? So they're probably out of space where they are now, correct? (I've never been, but it always looks pretty cramped!)
So where would they have had room for a division of after market accessories?
Maybe their suppliers don't want to bother stocking this stuff (and Stern doesn't have the people to deal directly with customers themselves for a few bucks here and there). Who knows?

You just can't say: "They should do it this way" unless you know all the details.
Too many Pinsiders throw mud at Jack and at Stern, thinking they know better.
I expect a few of them are right once in a while but I'll bet that most are simply ignorant.

I would have a big problem with this. Although I've already made it abundantly clear that I think Stern should offer a premium version of all titles, to do so after the fact would be manipulative, and just plain wrong.

You bet I am. They were the only company that was able to stay in business during the dark days of pinball

They are very far from perfect obviously. But when it comes to doing what's best for their company, I have no reason to doubt their business model overall I mean I can question it but to say they have no clue what they are doing is taking it too far

The fact that you work for "one of the biggest companies in the world" doesn't change that opinion one iota

Why not?

If they have brainwashed enough jackasses to keep doing that, they are even smarter than I thought they were!

I don't have a problem with this at all. No one knows how well this game will sell until it has been out for a while and people play it. It is a low to medium seller, then fine, no Premium. If it turns out to be a blockbuster, I want to be able to buy a Premium if I can't find an LE at a reasonable price. If it is a choice between Pro or nothing, I will take nothing every time. I am not buying a game with playfield parts missing. Pros are for movie theaters where people don't know any better. Premiums are for home users who want the whole experience.

I agree they do what they do well, pinball manufacturing, but for a company to survive in a dying market, they need to look for new revenue stream. They should think pinball industry...............If they did, if the knew our industry and our trends, I bet they would not never let Rick buy the Williams rights without a fight. Rick will make a fortune just being a middle man and never lifting a finger...............

They already survived in a dying market. Now they're surviving in a thriving one.

I don't like the no premium model. I can't afford to buy every pin that comes out but I search out and play every pin that comes out. If only 600 LEs will have the full features the chances of finding one on location are not good. The better locations in the twin cities area get premiums. If there are no premiums everyone who plays on location in these areas will not be playing the full featured game. I thought stern wanted to grow location pinball, this isn't helping.