(Topic ID: 200367)

One player game ball stepper acts like two-player game

By n1teowl

2 years ago

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  • 8 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by n1teowl
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0Strike-Zone-Work-02 (resized).jpg

#1 2 years ago

I have a Williams Solids N Stripes that is having a problem with one player games. Everything works as intended, including the one-player light on the backglass, except for the ball stepper. It is only stepping once instead of twice for one player games. If I play a two player game, everything works fine as the stepper continues to step one time. I thought it might be a problem with the 2nd coin relay, but that seems to be working okay (will switch to a two player game without difficulty when unlatched). What determines if the ball stepper steps once or twice? Thanks for any help you can provide.

#2 2 years ago

One more piece of information. I tested it out, and the ball will be given twice when playing a one player game. When I hit the outhole switch, it serves the next ball like this:

Ball 1, ball 1
Ball 2, ball 2
Ball 3, ball 3 etc.

When playing a two player game, this is of course fine as the players do switch back and forth. I also noticed that it doesn't seem to matter whether or not the ball index relay is pulling in, the behavior stays the same.


#3 2 years ago

The answer is on the schematic. Do you have one?

#4 2 years ago

I agree with HowardR with: To every pin there should be a paper schematics.
n1teowl -
please read the whole post - then decide which way You want to do the testing.
I wondered what other TWO-Player pins Williams made at the time - I used the advanced search in ipdb: http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?mfgid=413&yr=1970-72&pl=2&sortby=date&searchtype=advanced - I looked through the list and: Strike Zone http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=2404 is close in time and ipdb has the schematics --- I show a snippet (sqeezed a bit) -

I believe in Your pin functions the "1,2,3,4,5" - the Ball-Count-Unit steps-up one step. In a ONE-Player-Game there should be a second*** stepping on the Ball-Count-Unit: "1,2,3,6,7,9,11,12,13".
The problem in Your pin is an nice example of "lets use an SteveFury-Test-Light" - it is shown here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/reading-gottlieb-schematics#post-2634425 .
Toggle-off the pin, unplug the main power cord (Safety Reasons) - then establish an permanent wiring with the Test-Light clipping-on at "9" and "14". Instead of "14 (anywhere on wire-black)" You may use "16" or "15 - the fuse - BUT use side wire-black on the fuseholder - so You have the fuse in the wiring". Plug-in, toggle-on and try an ONE-Player-Game - Does the Test-Light lights-up ?
IF (if, if) "No luck": Toggle-off, unplug the main power cord and establish permanent Test-Light-connection "7 to 14" and do test.
IF (if, if) "Still no luck": You have proven: The fault must be in "3,6,7" - somewhere in this wiring is the fault (well, one fault). Please write about Your findings.

IF (if,if) the Test-Light DID light-up - You have proven: The wiring and switches "3,6,7,9" is good - the fault must be in the wiring "9,11,12,13". Please write about Your findings.

I like to use a Test-Light --- but You can do tests "NO Test-Light used" - just using an Jumper-Wire and do permanent Jumpering: "9 to 5/13" - "7 to 5/13" --- big question: Does the Ball-Count-Unit step-up ? Please write about Your findings.

Please use http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/2240/Williams_1971_Solids_N_Stripes_Instruction_Manual.pdf - on page-25 (ori-23) on the 2nd-Coin-Relay it is switch-D - my "7" is the middle blade, Gray-Blue --- my "9" is the bottom-most blade in this switch, Red-White. Therefore the Ball-Count-Unit-Step-Up-Coil has (as shown in my JPG): Red-White and Black".

second*** stepping --- actually this stepping is done before --- as SCM-1B closes earlier in time - before SCM-2B closes. Greetings Rolf

0Strike-Zone-Work-02 (resized).jpg

#5 2 years ago

Thanks so much for your help Howard and Rolf. I've started by making the Steve Fury test light. Works great! Next step is to test the areas you pointed out on the schematic above.

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IMG_20171016_195547365 (resized).jpg

#6 2 years ago

I did the test you suggested above, Rolf, and came up with no light on either 9-14 or 7-14. What would you recommend that I try next? It sounds like this might be a score motor issue. Does that seem right? Thanks!

#7 2 years ago

Hi n1teowl
the Test-Light does not light-up --- in Your video in post-5 it does light-up --- but lets say "we test the Test-Light": In the lower left corner of my JPG in post-4 we see "orange 1" - a Make-and-Brake-Switch on the Outhole-Relay --- on page-23 (ori-21) in ipdb-manual "Solids-N-Stripes" I locate the switch as the Switch-D - wire-Yellow on middle blade - wire-red-white on "blade to get-closed-contact when relay is pulling" - JUST as in the JPG. When You hook-up Your Test-Light "Solder-Lug-of-wire-red-white on switch-D on Outhole-Relay" to "my 14 or 15 or 16": The Test-Light will light-up as long as the Outhole-Relay is pulling - does it in Your pin ?
(((The written above test You may do - or You do not do)))

In the JPG here I made "huge, big, rosa-pink X" --- one or more place(s) the fault(s) is/are.

From the manual Solids N Stripes I take: "Outhole-Relay-Switch-D-wire-red-white" runs to "Ball-Index-Relay-Switch-B". From this switch-B then runs wire-red-orange to "Extra-Ball-Relay-Switch-D". From this Switch-D then runs WIRE-ORANGE-RED*** ---

What we see in an schematics is "abstract - drawn beautyful" --- in reality it is more like in the JPG here - see upper right corner: The wire from the Extraball-Relay runs to a Score-Motor-Switch - and from the Score-Motor-Switch hops a short wire over to the other cam / wheel - Switch.
So WIRE-ORANGE-RED*** coming from the Extraball-Relay MAY arrive at Score-Motor-Cam-1-Switch-B or it may arrive at Score-Motor-Cam-2-Switch-B (or any other cam - any other switch on a cam --- we do not have the schematics, YOU MUST look-up in Your pin) - a short jumpering wire of any color (maybe even a bare/naked wire ?) connects the two switches on the two cams - from one cam (probably cam-2-switch-B) runs a straight wire (hopefully***) to "Step-up-Coil on Ball-Count-Unit", from the other cam (probably cam-1-switch-B) runs a straight wire to "Switch-D on 2nd.-Coin-Relay".

You must locate the cams (cam-1 ? cam-2 ?) and the switches on the cams (B ?) - and the connecting wires - soldered-on ? contact-points on the switchblades clean ? switch (probably SCM-1B ?) closing when the running motor actuates the switch-stack ? Greetings Rolf

P.S. - hopefully***: Remember, schematics are drawn abstract - the wire may run to "Switch on 2nd. Coin-Relay" - and then "Switch on 2nd. Coin-Relay" is connected to "Step-up-Coil on Ball-Count-Unit".

0Strike-Zone-Work-03 (resized).jpg

#8 2 years ago

I was able to test the outhole using the test light and it worked fine. I took a closer look at the score motor and saw that the back side of the switches (where the wires attach) were all bent at different angles and looked like some might be touching. I straightened those out and adjusted all of the switches as best I could. I turned it on...and it worked! Once I got it going, I had a bunch of other lamp issues and minor fixes that I was able to get through in a couple hours. It now works great and I am finally getting to play it for the first time. Thanks so much for your help! Rolf, I see your posts all over and I'm sure that there are dozens of working EMs out there thanks to you. Also thanks to HowardR for chiming in.

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