(Topic ID: 88139)

Old Relay Mods

By beadwindow

10 years ago


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  • 12 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by beadwindow
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#1 10 years ago

The game ( '66 Capersville) plays normally with the exception of keeping track of the number of times a player lights all the portholes on the super bonus reel but I feel that's not related to the relay mods.
The 3 coils in the pic from top to bottom are the ball return relay, hold relay, and the anti cheat relay.
The new blue wire has been added and so has the orange wire from the hold relay to ball return relay. I cut the orange wire but when I got the game it was intact and I've since reattached it. These 3 relays don't have the ground (im guessing that's what it is) or common wire like all the rest. Should they? Also the ball return relay has a center lug that once had a wire attached. Where would this have gone? All the other relays that have a center lug have a black wire coming off of it that goes to a NC switch on that specific relay. I can't see an obvious attachment point-maybe the entire switch was removed. Any help is greatly appreciated!!!
image-138.jpgimage-138.jpg

#2 10 years ago

To me, the blue wire jumper looks out of place. The orange wire jumper looks like it replaced the bare braid that was probably cut when they replaced the ball return relay coil above.

Without a schematic to look at, its hard to tell.

#3 10 years ago

Thanks, CJ. I do have a schematic but I'm not the best at reading them. For example on a Gottlieb schematic, there's info about each relay with its number and type of switches. I don't see this on a Bally schematic but I'm gonna go look again. Any idea what the center lug is for on the ball return relay?
Thanks much.

#4 10 years ago

Pic of the ball return relay on schematic. I can't infer from this what the 3rd lug connects to...image-626.jpgimage-626.jpg

#5 10 years ago

If it were me I would just have someone snap a picture of those 3 relays for you.

There are 10 Pinsiders who own Capersville you could email so the chance of you getting a picture is very good.

http://pinside.com/pinball/archive/capersville/owners

Ken

#6 10 years ago

The 3rd lug is not normally there, it is most-likely the wrong coil. Correct coil is 85Ω KK -331.

The coil you have is a dual wound coil 88Ω, but it should be just fine anyway.
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/K-33-1880_33-32

I think cutting the orange wire is NOT correct. Both the hold RE and Ball return RE are interconnected on the return side of the coils. See schematic Hold RE 34 and Ball return RE 41, both connected to the same wire (orange wire).
The blue wire maybe also correct. My schematic is of poor quality, can’t read if the RE SW I can see is the hold RE, I think it is. if you can scan your Schematic sections 14, 34 and 41 then post here, it would help. You have already done the 41 section, I see.

#7 10 years ago

Here's sections 14 and 34.
image-386.jpgimage-386.jpgimage-578.jpgimage-578.jpg

#8 10 years ago

The bit I can’t read on my schematic is “Bounce”, and I’m not sure what the Bounce SW is. So the blue wire is not meant to be there.

Look at the bit of schematic you have uploaded (Thanks for that). The anti- cheat coil has to connections on one side. One from the Scr Motor and one from the Anti-cheat RE (Hold SW), both are White/grey wires. There is NO connection to the coil of the Hold RE. If you look at the Hold RE, there are a total of six SWs that can power the coil, none of them are the Anti-cheat RE.

My guess is the blue wire is there because, one may except the tilt Sws to power the anti-cheat RE, but going by the schematic they don’t directly power the Anti-Cheat coil.

If this was a bomb, Cut the blue wire, NOT the orange wire!!

#9 10 years ago

Thanks for all the info, Chrisbee. I'll remove the blue wire and see if I can get everything sorted out.

#10 10 years ago

The Bounce switch and the Shut off Switch are normally those weighted tilt switches or possibly the "kick off" switch that feels the underside of the cabinet bottom. As you can see, they are normally closed and allow the Anti-cheat relay to hold in once either the left flipper button or a score motor function (like coin drop) has begun.

I forgot what game a few of us were working on (anothher older Bally) that DID use 3 lug coils for certain functions where you wanted a quick response and then a reduction in hold power (used EOS switches). I think they were feature relays on the playfield. Like Chrisbee said, more than likely, someone just robbed it from another game to replace a burned out one.

#11 9 years ago

Thanks, I may end up replacing the coil in question with a new one of the correct specs. Today I'll be able to look at another Capersville and so I'll compare those coils. Hopefully everything in that same area is still like it was when it left the factory. Overall though, if game play is original then I'm not too concerned. Originally I thought these changes were the reason or part of the reason why the porthole sequence wasn't resetting.
Anyway, I'll post what I find after I get a chance to compare.

#12 9 years ago

Here's the pic of those relays in question. Its actually from another Capersville I picked up and it looks like everything is still in factory condition.image-496.jpgimage-496.jpg

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