(Topic ID: 194082)

Old Chicago advice needed


By Boise_D

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 7 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Mopar
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 2 years ago

I'd like to get an issue fixed, but also learn some new things too.
The issue is that Bally Old Chicago won't advance the ball or player on a multi-player game. It will advance the ball fine on a single player game.
Ball index holds after points are scored
Player up coil tests good (about 10ohms), but does not fire.
It seems that if I manually activate the player up coil my game would work correctly.
Questions:
How and where exactly can I attach clips to manually fire the player up coil?
how can I figure out from the schematic which motor switch I should check?
What is a good way to get at all the score motor switches to inspect and clean them?

Thanks for any advice

#2 2 years ago

Step 1: find the player unit step up coil on the schematics. It's around column 6-7.

To make any coil fire, you need voltage to reach both sides of it. Looking at that coil, we can see one side is attached directly to the thick horizontal 80 wire, and the other end goes through some stuff to the 30 wire. So to fire it with clips, you just need to bypass all those switches and hook it straight to the 30 wire.

Similarly, for it to fire normally, all those switches need to be closed to make that same connection. If you make a list of the switches, you'll see there's one on the player reset relay, one on motor drum 4B (the one in a circle), one on the extra ball relay, one on the ball index (playfield valid) and one on the outhole. That all makes sense. If the ball's not in the outhole you don't want to go to the next player. If the playfield is invalid you just kick the ball back out. If the player has an extra ball you stay on them.

To take a brute force approach, you could just examine and clean all of these switches and it'd probably fix your problem, assuming the relays they're on are all firing properly (if the ball index relay was never turning on then adjusting the switch on it isn't going to help and you'd have to go look at that). You can be smarter though and maybe save some time by looking at what else these switches control. you'll note that the player unit reset is on the same line, only the player reset relay switch is different. So if it goes back to player one from player 4 properly, then you know to check the player reset relay switch first, as it's the only one they don't have in common. If the ball count unit step up solenoid to the right works properly, then you know it can't be the extra ball, ball index, or outhole relays.

However, you have two problems. Your ball count is also not stepping up on multiplayer games. Does it not advance even if you manually move the player unit to the last player? If so then the ball count problem is just a symptom of the player unit problem and can be ignored. If not you'll note that it goes through the Coin Unit (which is really the player count), and you might want to make sure that stepper disc is clean and the wipers are making good contact.

As for adjusting the score motor switches I don't have many suggestions. Usually they hinge up so you can get a more direct side on view of the switches. Turn the game off and spin the motor by hand, trying to watch the contacts open and shut. Get a switch adjuster with a 90 degree end to stick in between the stacks. If necessary remove the whole bottom board so you can get your eyes right up next to it.

#3 2 years ago

Here's the circuit to check for the Player Up unit stepup solenoid

Pinball (resized).png

#4 2 years ago

Does this mean the motor switches are not involved? Or is that what the 4B in the box indicates? Sorry, another question. How do I access those motor switches to check and clean then?

#5 2 years ago

Hi Boise_D +
Williams and Bally pins have something rather strange --- but it is normal: In a ONE-Player-Game when the pin steps to the next ball: JUST BEFORE stepping to the next ball: The Player-Unit-RESET-Coil fires --- see " HowardR - snippet - enriched, blue line". Big question - when You play a ONE-Player-Game: Does this coil fires ? Greetings Rolf

0Howard-O-CH (resized).png

#6 2 years ago

Hi rolf_martin_062,
Did you mean the player reset relay? Yes, that one fires after each ball.
I'm learning, a little. In the schematic, the circled 3A SCM indicates the score motor switch changing state, #3 closest to the bottom. I inspected and cleaned that one today, but the same problem persists. Another interesting clue perhaps? If I start a 4-player game and then manually advance the player unit in the back to player 4, and then add some points (so the ball index will activate), and then activate the out hole relay, the player reset relay activates, but they player unit in the backbox does not reset. So, it means that neither of the player unit coils are firing, not the increment or the reset. I will look at that unit closer. I wish I knew how to jumper and fire those coils.

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from Boise_D:

It will advance the ball fine on a single player game.

Okay, that pretty much tells us that the contacts in the Extra Ball Relay, Ball Index Relay,
and Outhole Relay are doing it's job. It could be the make/break contact in the Player Reset
Relay, but I'm more leaning toward the 4B set of contacts off of the score motor's cam which
is in the 4th stack of switches from the front, 2nd to the last set of contacts from the bottom.
It always a good idea to first make sure that the stack screws are tighten. I know that it's
a little pain to squeeze in between those score motor switches with a small file and/or
contact adjustment wrench, but with patience, you'll get there..
Your ball step up problem when on more than one player could also be in the Coin
and/or Player Up Unit disc from poor contact. It's a good idea to clean and lube those
disc (wiper boards). I go through all machines before plugging in which illiminates much
of the problems..

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