You bring up the biggest scams out there... let me explain.

I think people do this to fool people, but I think a lot of these manufactures start shipping higher numbers first so it looks like they're selling like hot cakes. Trust me I know they're doing this 110%. I'm not going to name suppliers but I got one machine and it states a super high number and I was one of the first to get the game. Then an entire year later my buddy buys one and he gets number 2 or 3 or something. I think the first numbered games they ship are closer the limit number and they work their way backwards. I'm not saying Houdini did that i'm just saying I think they do that.

Take Black Knight, I'd love to see what numbers people got, they're not going to come CLOSE to selling 500 LE, I bet they sell something closer to 75 but someone probably got #456.

Why would they do that... simple. They want you the LE buyer to think man you just got this just in time. Next time they release an LE buy it fast because these sell out quick. When you open your box and it shows #489, you might think holy cow I got one of the last ones, when in fact they started with a high number and worked back.

I'm telling you this is happening.

Huh? 75?

I have no idea how many they sold or are you having a reading to many words problem again? I was guessing, I think I made that pretty clear, but I forgot you can only read a post if it contains less than 10 words. Black Knight is the WORST selling Stern title in their modern history. I know several people who sell Stern and one told me they didn't sell a single LE Black Knight. I'm guessing like lets say they sold 75 Black Knight LE, and I'm saying I'd bet someone get #432 out of 500. I'm guessing or can't you read?

The point I'm making is some of these pinball companies don't ship out #1 then #2 then #3, they start near the middle or the back and work their way down. You really don't know how many sold based on the plague you get is what i'm saying or again can't you read?

I can read that 114 Pinsiders own the BKSOR LE, which I think is more than 75? Or don't you know how to math?

https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/black-knight-sword-of-rage-le

"Scam" seems a bit harsh but I get your point.

AFAIK Houdini's number has been very straightforward they just started at or around 1000, I heard this from one of their distributors and my pretty-early production game is 1151. We've seen others report 14xx so it stands to reason they were well into the four hundreds, again it doesn't prove anything but all my dealings with the folks at AP make me trust them.

Thank God we have you to explain this little known and understood phenomenon. Well duh, that's been going on in marketing since the dawn of time. Doesn't mean that's how all manufacturers set their serial numbers.

In the Houdini thread people where posting their serial numbers and you could see the progression as sales went up from very low serial numbers. I got mine two months into the run and guys that were getting their machines at the same time were posting in the 1090s and mine was 1098 (#98). Josh Kugler posted the process back then. If serial number is 1071, then 71 heads were created. Didn't mean they were shipped in that exact order but I don't believe there was an attempt to fool customers with some serial number scheme.

Mine was 359 (1359) and was built in June 2018. Got it August 2018.

Time will tell indeed... one major thing that boosts the value of CC is the B/W name behind it of course... AP don't have the huge fan-base as B/W do... that's one major factor that boosts all B/W games... but you never know... AP might start knocking games out of the park with future titles and start to gain massive respect and develope a sound ran-base. Early games like Oktoberfest, with its quirky animations, could thetefore be highly sought after... one thing's for sure, the gameplay and layout don't let it down, and neither do the looks of the game IMO.

First off Mr Law, I own games and sometimes I've put them into my collection accidently as a pro when I have an LE, or I entered an LE when I have pro. So you can't take that number is religion and even if that number is accurate I didn't take the time to look it up I was guessing, so now you're saying its 114, that is still a far cry from 500. That is a FAR CRY from 500... my guess actually wasn't that off. Secondly it wasn't even the point but i know your intelligence is a bit on the lower side so I'll explain it to you again... I'd love to see from the 117 people who bought Black Knight LE's what numbers are actually on their machines. If only 117 people own the game, and someone out there has number 378 that would prove my point. You're just trying to be an ass as usual ... I don't care how many Black Knight LE got sold but I know for a fact it isn't 500. So wouldn't it be interesting to prove my point that we could find some Black Knight LE owners with plaque that reads 412? That was the point. But you knew that you just play dumb on purpose I think.

BTW I'm not saying they sold them out of order I'm saying these pinball companies 110% do exactly that but you more or less confirmed it with your opening line. I think its a marketing tool honestly start high so people think wow you got one when plages 1-300 are just sitting in a drawer. LOL

I should have said marketing ploy, or something like that I agree its not a scam, but its definitely intended to fool people into thinking the game is selling faster than melting butter on a hot summer day.

I'm NOT saying don't trust anyone I just know these companies do in fact do exactly what I suggested... as I pointed out my friend gets #2 of an LE machine an ENTIRE year after I bought mine and I have number I don't even know I'd have to go look but guessing like 450. Somehow he gets #2 an entire year later. How does that happen?

LOL

You know people buy and own pinball machines that aren't on Pinside right?
I get your overall point, but it's not what I'm focusing on because there is too much crazy around it.
Is this an act or not? Are you really this weird or do you just post like hopped up on pills or something? I think we all would have more respect for you if you just like to party post which is totally cool.

You do know that many (I don't know if they all do this) allow you to choose your LE "number" if it's available, right? I was given this option when I bought my WOZRR and didn't really care but I still threw a number out there, turned out is wasn't available so I took what I got. Personally though if I'm buying an LE and I find out the whole run didn't sell out that means mine might, just might, be actually collectible down the road.

Yeah actually if you’d learn to read you’d know I’ve been pushing that the whole time... you just now figured that out? I’ve made the point only like 100 times when people bash on say Willy Wonka. I’ve made the case I don’t know 500 times that if you look on this site it shows only what 1000 people own Adams Family when we all know over 20k was built. I basically say over and over again that this website is NOT THE INDUSTRY. In fact I’ve said 100 times that this site might only represent 5% maybe 10% of everyone who buys, or plays a game so therefore maybe just maybe a game like Willy Wonka be a game that a lot of people will buy off a showroom and people like you don’t even know it happened. Bottom line the only people who are weird around here are clowns like you who think you know everything, and if you don’t like someone’s opinion you chime in. Personally I think you’re an idiot, who spends 24 hours a day posting on every thread on the site. You only have close to 10,000 posts... do you do anything else all day but bitch, whine and complain about everything.

If you love ramps, go with WW. That game has actual flow where OKT is an absolute clunkfest. WHY DOESN'T AP DO WHITEWOODS? Cuz if they did then they would know their games have zero flow. One of my biggest issues with Houdini while I owned it was that the damn milk can shot was only makeable by accident. Played a few dozen games of OKT and while I commend the effort for originality, it just wasn't any fun. Both ramp shots are barely makeable.

Am I the only one imagining all of drfrightner’s posts being screamed by a drunk guy swaying at the bar?

Oktoberfest is not a clunkfest! Houdini maybe yeah. Oktoberfest doesnt have flow nor was intended to. I'd hate to see your review of black knight and alice cooper, same thing.
Yes the beer barrel and coaster are difficult to make but thats the point and why its satisfing to play. Just like destroying the castle in midevil madness. I wouldnt own this game if I made those shots all the time. Boring. But some people like to smack the ball around through wide lanes, ramps and make everyshot. Then they pat themselves on the back as if no one else can do it. Thats my problem with Wonka, it is like that and fun for about 4 games and got boring because it was makeable and nothing was challenging?

Not after making that post.

Flow does not equate to good. That's just your preference right now. When your skills improve you may come to appreciate tighter shots like the lock shot on Houdini.

In a home environment I'm sure things can be done to improve this...

I voted for Oktoberfest after putting about an hour on both games. Wonka was a beautiful game to look at, but to me, it lacked clear direction about what was going on while you were playing. I felt lost most of the time trying to figure out what the hell I was supposed to do.

Oktoberfest was very straight forward. I almost always knew what I was supposed to shoot. There were a ton of different modes that were more than just shoot the 5 shots. They all seemed very unique and were enjoyable to play. Were the animations cheesy, yes. Were the callouts cheesy, yes. But to me, it seemed to be designed that way for a reason.

I just didn't get that feeling from Wonka.

Were you on the newest code? They implemented a fix for the left ramp shot. I played for about an hour yesterday and had no issues shooting the left ramp. The ramp shot fed by the upper right flipper was a different story. That shot kicked my a$$, but when I had the magnet release timing correct, I could hit it.

Rollercoaster ramp is easily hittable. I'll get coaster MB usually once per game. I'll usually hit beer barrel ramp twice per game and it holds the balls between games. Once it's dialed in, the games difficulty is right on for home use. Just difficult enough to tease you and keep you coming back for more. It's the opposite for Wonka.

Does Oktoberfest still have the screens where the text doesn't fit in the space that's made for it? Everything in Okt is campy, and as such I can rationalize that most of it is supposed to be cheesy. But there were some screens that were just broken. I think they were either the mode screens or the steins? Super basic font that overlapped the edges of the text box.

That said, my wife and I both really enjoyed Okt and are waiting until the price comes down a bit more to pick up a used one. It's easy to see the price of these bottoming out, so I'm taking my time looking for one.

Agree! Houdini is a difficult machine. Difficult doesn't equal "not fun." Oktoberfest is also difficult. But was you get better at learning these machine they really open up. I've had some epic, epic games on Houdini.

BTW, I really don't think the lock shot is that difficult. There are easily as difficult shots on most new Stern games. Not sure why people freaked out over that particular shot. I hit it on 40-50% of my attempts. For some reason, the only time I can't seem to find it is during timed modes like the Bullet Catch.

Houdini had many screens that were not complete or "placeholders." Nearly all of that has been resolved. I'm sure there will be many more releases of code for Oktoberfest over the next year.

I do not know which screen(s) you're referring to -- perhaps something from the prototypes at last year's Expo? -- but I do not know of any such screens in any recent code release of Oktoberfest. If you or anyone spot such a thing in current code, please don't hesitate to DM me with the particulars and it'll get fixed.

One of the things that makes me proud about working with American Pinball and the Oktoberfest team: we're all here for you. Barry, Dan, Josh, myself, we hang out on Pinside, TiltForums, etc regularly. We listen to feedback about the game and try to make it better. Barry hands out his cell number for anyone who has problems, dang near 24/7. We've had major Oktoberfest code updates (check the release notes!) roughly every other month, and the next one should be on about the same schedule. We want our games to be right.

that's a good point, i really appreciate that
and i (still) dont have a AP pin !

I played them back to back at the show in May, and was more intrigued by Oktoberfest. Is it a better game? I'll need much more time to know. It seemed like a more interesting game after studying each one for 15 minutes.

-mof

Costco loves Oktoberfest!

ofest (resized).jpg

You couldn't make one shot on the game and that ruined it for you?

Shots were so tight it was more frustrating than fun. I'm not a very good player so that probably has something to do with it.

I found every shot on Wonka within the first couple balls I played. Unless the game is a pure adrenaline rush (GOT,ACDC), which Wonka is most certainly not, I’ll get bored pretty quick.

Can’t wait to play OF again here soon with new code.

Octoberfest is a fugly clunkfest.
This thread is only somewhat viable because octoberfest winning by default, due to wonka crappy clearcoat.
If you really have the itch to Buy a nib. Hold on for spooky/ap's next and hope for better, or wait and see if jjp/Stern survive long enough to have their shite-products sorted.

your out of your mind...get lost

That comment makes me regret loving and owning Saabs.
Yes it has very little to do with this topic just like the pins you mentioned.

Good point. That shot is tight, but I'm pretty sure the Rocket shot on Guardians is tighter. You never hear people saying that layout is "broken".

I didn't notice anything when I played it the other night.

That had absolutely nothing to do with my vote.

Today - Right Now - Based on PF quality alone: Oktoberfest all the way

Saab in their later years wasn't good or interesting cars. In their early days with free-wheel drive, first with turbo etc they were very innovative.

So it's just a coincidence this thread coming up just a little while after the playfields issue?

I also don't understand the hostility. It's not personal, it's a forum for toys for grown ups.

CANDY IS DANDY BUT LIQUOR IS QUICKER

Actually its very relavent right now. Have you seen the pinside map of each with owners and wishlist? These 2 are running neck and neck! All the people saying Oktoberfest wont sell as much as Wonka pro better think again. Only time will tell.

I'm surprised that they sell any wonka at all, since it comes with a manufacturing defect.

This thread is basically would you Buy a BMW running on three cylinders, with imminent engine breakdown or a skoda.?
Using the afore car analogy

Man, what is with all these "Dr's" on Pinside? Or has Dr.F suddenly moved to Sweden and learned to shorten up his goofy posts by typing them in broken Swedish before converting them to English?