(Topic ID: 250070)

Oktoberfest vs Willy Wonka


By GrandFireball1

6 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 143 posts
  • 52 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 months ago by Billy16
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Topic poll

“Which is better? ”

  • Oktoberfest 95 votes
    48%
  • Willy Wonka (standard) 90 votes
    46%
  • Stern Fanboy alert! 11 votes
    6%

(196 votes)

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There are 143 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
#1 6 months ago

Two very different games with a variety of opinions.
Oktoberfest is definitely the more unique, whimsical, and deep game with tons of interesting strategy.
Wonka has a bit more flow, and a classic theme, but not as much going on rule wise.

Let’s say WW standard so the price is close

-1
#2 6 months ago

I’ve seen used Oktoberfest for $6000-6300. That’s the better value

#3 6 months ago
Quoted from Coz:

I’ve seen used Oktoberfest for $6000-6300. That’s the better value

Where? Please pm me.

#4 6 months ago

Assuming the playfield doesn’t chip like a mother, a $7500 Wonka is the best value in NIB pinball. Great game!

#5 6 months ago
Quoted from ChippyWonka:

Assuming the playfield doesn’t chip like a mother, a $7500 Wonka is the best value in NIB pinball. Great game!

Your username goes perfectly with this quote lol

#6 6 months ago
Quoted from GrandFireball1:

Your username goes perfectly with this quote lol

My username was born from the sadness that comes with owning a chipping Wonka.

#7 6 months ago
Quoted from Vino:

Where? Please pm me.

Here on pinside.
C37AF47E-BEC3-43D3-889F-8777393D64D6 (resized).png

#8 6 months ago

Both are disappointments although Wonka takes the cake considering that one should have been the game of the year. Now it's a wait to find one cheap and standards already at 6800 or less.

Octoberfest was done from the start.

Anyone spending more than 6300 on Octoberfest is not paying attention. COZ is spot on

I would vote for neither. Too bad there isn't that option.

#9 6 months ago

After owning both, Oktoberfest wins here. Wonka was too repetitive and plagued with issues. Oktoberfest is a fresh design with great strategy and plenty of modes.

#10 6 months ago
Quoted from Coz:

Here on pinside.
[quoted image]

Thx Coz - haven’t been paying attn.
Wow, hope some of these deals land out west!

#11 6 months ago

Played both games quite a bit and I'd say WW is way better than Oktoberfest. People are quickly dumping their Oktoberfest's soon after buying them. They feel clunky and just plain weird; artwork is very cheesy and gameplay can be a bore. WW has a lot more going on and smooth flowing shots.

#12 6 months ago

Wonka will chip

-1
#14 6 months ago
Quoted from PokerJake:

After owning both, Oktoberfest wins here. Wonka was too repetitive and plagued with issues. Oktoberfest is a fresh design with great strategy and plenty of modes.

Definitely agree with you here. Wonka to me is nothing unique and kinda boring. Oktoberfest is a little clunky, but has tons of interesting shots and awesome rules. So many ways to play it and funny modes.

#15 6 months ago

They can’t give away Oktoberfest at this point :p

#16 6 months ago
Quoted from GrandFireball1:

Definitely agree with you here. Wonka to me is nothing unique and kinda boring. Oktoberfest is a little clunky, but has tons of interesting shots and awesome rules. So many ways to play it and funny modes.

Hate to say it, but Wonka is too smooth. The ramps are easy and easily repeatable, there isn't a difficult shot in the game. Plus there's only 4 factory modes that really matter, when you're playing through them for the third in the same game, it's kind of boring.

#17 6 months ago
Quoted from PokerJake:

Hate to say it, but Wonka is too smooth. The ramps are easy and easily repeatable, there isn't a difficult shot in the game. Plus there's only 4 factory modes that really matter, when you're playing through them for the third in the same game, it's kind of boring.

Exactly. Besides, Oktoberfest is ~$500 cheaper. Wonka is more like a playfield with Wonka art thrown on it. Oktoberfest is a festival under glass

#18 6 months ago

Haven’t played either but am really curious about Oktoberfest. Even though I love Wonka as a theme I have no interest in owning the game. For a good price I could see myself owning Oktoberfest at some point.

#19 6 months ago

Oktoberfest!

I like WW too though.

Quoted from f3honda4me:

They can’t give away Oktoberfest at this point :p

They can give me one. And ... I'll pay them to boot!

#20 6 months ago

This question posed is obviously a set up! Anyway Oktoberfest is not clunky at all, you are! All pinball games are headed in this direction like Alice Cooper. Get with the times. Easy flow looper Stern games are a thing of the past. Wonka was fun but the scoring and rules were boring after 5 games. Hit gobstopper and thats the main source of points.Whoopey!
Oktoberfest is fun and challenging with 14 different tents with challenges you have to brave through. There is no way to master all of them. Wonka rule set is too simple in comparison. But if you just play to keep the ball alive than I can see Wonka being your thing.

#21 6 months ago

Wonder how hard it is to change the region and voltage for American Pinball games?

#22 6 months ago
Quoted from GrandFireball1:

Oktoberfest is a festival under glass

Damn when you put it like that it makes me want to own one

#23 6 months ago

Wow! This is nearly split down the middle.

#24 6 months ago
Quoted from Daditude:

Wow! This is nearly split down the middle.

That is really surprising.

-1
#25 6 months ago

There shouldn't even be a debate here WONKA all day long. Amazing theme, incredible detail, great shots, wonderful artwork, all from a classic movie.

Octoberfest is a very confusing theme, the CGI FX on the screen are below average, the playfield is cluttered, and the theme just doesn't resonate. I predict 150 of these machines will be sold when its all said and done... so maybe over time it becomes rare and desirable. Its not a bad game but as a collector I can't get into the theme at all.

I really like American Pinball and I'd like to see them, license something like Halloween, Friday the 13th, Airplane, don't really care just something niche and try to sell 1000 machines.

I'm rooting for American Pinball, but this game won't take them to the promised land. Wonka is a home run theme from a collector standpoint and in the end will probably sell over 2,000 machines.

Wonka all day long is the winner here.

-2
#26 6 months ago
Quoted from Daditude:

Wow! This is nearly split down the middle.

LOL there is no split down the middle... what people on pinside don't seem to realize is one thing... sales is the only way to judge success.

Polls mean nothing what matters is sales right? People on this site defend and like Black Knight, yet it will end up being the worst selling game Stern's ever produced. People like the game but not enough to buy one. So if people wont pony up 9k for an LE or even $5700 for a PRO the game is a failure. A lot of people bash on Ghostbusters to no end, yet that is one of Sterns best selling games EVER... SUCCESS! If I was going to guess on Ghostbusters over 3,500 units maybe 4,500 units. So people on pinside can hate on Ghostbusters all day, numbers don't lie... huge SUCCESS!

People like Octoberfest but not enough to buy one, maybe go play it inside of a location but not plunk down $7400 for it.

The only way to measure success is sales... I predict Wonka will sell 2000 copies over the next 3 years. Octoberfest will less less than 300 over three years. Wonka could generate over 15 million in sales for JJP while Octoberfest might generate less than 2 million..

I more realistic question is which game will create more sales Jurassic Park or Willy Wonka.

The mass majority of JP will be at the $5700 level, while the mass majority of JJP games will be at the 9500 mark. Those two could run neck and neck Octoberfest isn't in the conversation.

JJP Pirates sold about 1000 copies, Wonka is going to fly past Pirates. I think Dialed In is sitting around 1500 copies and again Wonka should fly past that number as well. The big seller for JJP is WoZ some estimate as many as 5,000 copies... so that is a big league success. From JJP point off view Pirates can be looked at as a failure even though people here on pinside love the game. See the point?

From a business point of view you look at numbers and nothing else.

#27 6 months ago

Fest has tons of unique modes and great use of shaker in the pops and knocker bang in the shooting games,ramps are challenging and satisfying and very makable,no quality issues and like jjp code is a priority,fest has two physical ball locks
Lots of adult humor if you want and seems to have that one more game feeling,

I have not spent a ton of time on a ww but I find the ramps way to easy and not enough mods,but have not been able to hear much of the sounds and call outs in an arcade,it is of corse top quality and a notch above ap

#28 6 months ago
Quoted from drfrightner:

From a business point of view you look at numbers and nothing else.

The OP didn't ask about the business view - he just wants a good game.

#29 6 months ago

I'm surprised I'm saying this, but from the limited time I've had them both machines I enjoy Oktoberfest more.

12
#30 6 months ago
Quoted from drfrightner:

If I was going to guess on Ghostbusters over 3,500 units maybe 4,500 units.

Quoted from drfrightner:

The only way to measure success is sales... I predict Wonka will sell 2000 copies over the next 3 years.

Quoted from drfrightner:

Octoberfest will less less than 300 over three years.

Quoted from drfrightner:

JJP Pirates sold about 1000 copies, Wonka is going to fly past Pirates.

Quoted from drfrightner:

I think Dialed In is sitting around 1500 copies and again Wonka should fly past that number as well.

Quoted from drfrightner:

The big seller for JJP is WoZ some estimate as many as 5,000 copies...

And finally--

Quoted from drfrightner:

From a business point of view you look at numbers and nothing else.

All guessing and "I think" which is all speculation. I understand that this forum has tons of speculation but your go on as if it's true and actual production numbers.
Fact is no one in company has documented the production numbers of these particular machines.

It would seem lately that the only company to show production numbers would be Spooky Pinball as they set a production limit to fulfill.

-Mike

#31 6 months ago
Quoted from drfrightner:

LOL there is no split down the middle... what people on pinside don't seem to realize is one thing... sales is the only way to judge success.
Polls mean nothing what matters is sales right? People on this site defend and like Black Knight, yet it will end up being the worst selling game Stern's ever produced. People like the game but not enough to buy one. So if people wont pony up 9k for an LE or even $5700 for a PRO the game is a failure. A lot of people bash on Ghostbusters to no end, yet that is one of Sterns best selling games EVER... SUCCESS! If I was going to guess on Ghostbusters over 3,500 units maybe 4,500 units. So people on pinside can hate on Ghostbusters all day, numbers don't lie... huge SUCCESS!
People like Octoberfest but not enough to buy one, maybe go play it inside of a location but not plunk down $7400 for it.
The only way to measure success is sales... I predict Wonka will sell 2000 copies over the next 3 years. Octoberfest will less less than 300 over three years. Wonka could generate over 15 million in sales for JJP while Octoberfest might generate less than 2 million..
I more realistic question is which game will create more sales Jurassic Park or Willy Wonka.
The mass majority of JP will be at the $5700 level, while the mass majority of JJP games will be at the 9500 mark. Those two could run neck and neck Octoberfest isn't in the conversation.
JJP Pirates sold about 1000 copies, Wonka is going to fly past Pirates. I think Dialed In is sitting around 1500 copies and again Wonka should fly past that number as well. The big seller for JJP is WoZ some estimate as many as 5,000 copies... so that is a big league success. From JJP point off view Pirates can be looked at as a failure even though people here on pinside love the game. See the point?
From a business point of view you look at numbers and nothing else.

When your game is losing in a poll to Octoberfest..... you must have a real winner on your hands!

#32 6 months ago
Quoted from drfrightner:

I more realistic question is which game will create more sales Jurassic Park or Willy Wonka.

Jurassic Park, hands down. When it’s between Oktoberfest and Wonka, I’m bored. I don’t want to play either of them ever again and I hope I never have to in competition. But JP was fun and intriguing to play. That’s the stuff that leads to better sales.

#33 6 months ago

Ignoring the Stern option (IMDN was the last Stern I had, and it left after about 3 months), I have to agree that Wonka is too easy. It’s fun, but after playing it a few times on location I knew it wasn’t a home game for me.

Oktoberfest is indeed PACKED with stuff. It’s easily as
Complicated as POTC although the theme may not resonate as much. As usual, a really well coded game too.

#34 6 months ago

Wonka doesn’t do anything for me at all. If forced, I’d buy an Octoberfest. But like others have said I don’t like either one enough to buy one. There are too many other better choices. Those are both games to fine on location.

#35 6 months ago
Quoted from drfrightner:

There shouldn't even be a debate here WONKA all day long. ...

For you. You also stated that you can't get into Oktoberfest's theme so there you go.

To each their own though Doctor. Greater mass sales numbers do not necessarily translate into one game being "better" than another.

#36 6 months ago

One thing I should point out is that yes, I’m sure WW will sell more than Oktoberfest. JJP is the bigger company and have a good theme out with a good reputation. American’s first game wasn’t awesome, and so that won’t help Oktoberfest sells.

All I’m asking is what is the better pinball. Not which one is better on location or which will sell more. Which is the better package?

And to the people who think Oktoberfest is confusing... it’s not. It’s not that hard to follow. It’s coded by 2 guys who have been into pinball for a long time and really understand rules and the player’s perspective. They also are super into the community and answering questions and taking suggestions to better improve certain aspects. Granted, no company has to do that, but it does give them some respect.

I think Wonka is a fine game. I’ll play around on it here and there. Animations are great. Quality is high. Butter smooth to shoot. But it’s not the better pin.

#37 6 months ago

Finally got a chance to play WW today! I’ve got an hour on the machine and it’s a fun shooter. It’s really early for me to say one is better than the other but after an hour on each game I feel Oktoberfest is more fun.

There’s just not a lot in the game compared to Fest. Fest is packed cool stuff to do and better mechs. Hands down better mechs than WW. Not even a contest.

Three things stand out in Fest:

1. Two physical ball locks that do something really fun with the balls when released. The rollercoaster and the keg drop on the beer stein magnet. I like those two mechs better than any toy on WW.

2. The bar bash toy is slightly better than the WW secret machine. You can bash to open much like the secret machine. And Otto the bartender interacts.

3. Targets. Lots more to shoot for. I counted at least 20 Stand-up targets on Fest. The crescent shaped banks of targets are “swipe-able” - something I’m not sure has been done before.

As for the theme, Wonka is a favorite movie having seen it a dozen times. But I don’t want that theme in my man cave. I’m not 12 anymore. For me Oktoberfest just makes me happy when I played it. The beer festival/carnival game atmosphere is a better fit for me.

I just bought MBr SE last week so I probably won’t be buying an Oktoberfest this year but it right at the top of my wishlist.

#38 6 months ago

Oktoberfest has the better code. Not sure that’s up for debate. I’d also say better mechs. I just find it too clunky of a shooter and wish it shot like Wonka.

#39 6 months ago
Quoted from GrandFireball1:

One thing I should point out is that yes, I’m sure WW will sell more than Oktoberfest. JJP is the bigger company and have a good theme out with a good reputation. American’s first game wasn’t awesome, and so that won’t help Oktoberfest sells.
All I’m asking is what is the better pinball. Not which one is better on location or which will sell more. Which is the better package?
And to the people who think Oktoberfest is confusing... it’s not. It’s not that hard to follow. It’s coded by 2 guys who have been into pinball for a long time and really understand rules and the player’s perspective. They also are super into the community and answering questions and taking suggestions to better improve certain aspects. Granted, no company has to do that, but it does give them some respect.
I think Wonka is a fine game. I’ll play around on it here and there. Animations are great. Quality is high. Butter smooth to shoot. But it’s not the better pin.

Are there any official numbers on "sold" machines available yet?

#40 6 months ago
Quoted from phoenixpin:

Oktoberfest has the better code. Not sure that’s up for debate. I’d also say better mechs. I just find it too clunky of a shooter and wish it shot like Wonka.

It needs to be set up pretty perfect. If not, yeah, not gonna be so fun.

-1
#41 6 months ago
Quoted from cooked71:

The OP didn't ask about the business view - he just wants a good game.

I agree but look at the thread it goes in 50 different directions as does everything on pinside. One of my points was to another comment and I stand behind it that Pinside doesn't decide what is or isn't a good pinball machine. The public at large who buys the games decide. Pinside is NOT even close to the majority of people who buy or play pinball games. What it is honestly is a group of people who've got unique perspectives some based on decades of playing pinball. Things change.

Quoted from Grizlyrig:

All guessing and "I think" which is all speculation. I understand that this forum has tons of speculation but your go on as if it's true and actual production numbers.
Fact is no one in company has documented the production numbers of these particular machines.

Its not hard to find out. You just have to do some digging. The best selling in modern pinball history for Stern is ACDC, Metallica, Pirates, and Ghostbusters. Also a lot of these pinball companies get parts from the same company, not hard to find out how many parts are ordered, and companies do talk about things with people. True I don't know the FINAL number on Houdini but i pretty good guess is around 400 machines. Octoberfest will be fewer than that. Pirates JJP is at or near 1000, Dialed In is at or near 1500 and I believe Wonka will end up at or around 2000 games sold. My point is Wonka will sell more for a good reason because its the better game! So yes I answered that question because I'm saying it will sell more because its better.

It would seem lately that the only company to show production numbers would be Spooky Pinball as they set a production limit to fulfill.

Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

For you. You also stated that you can't get into Oktoberfest's theme so there you go.

To each their own though Doctor. Greater mass sales numbers do not necessarily translate into one game being "better" than another.

Well this is true because sometimes as in the case of a movie like Big Lebowski great movie bombed at the box office same thing with Caddyshack. Somethings are discovered later on in life... either way though I don't think we'll be talking about Octoberfest 5 years from now. I doubt its going to be the new Alien, Big Lebowski, Cactus Canyon, Big Bang Bar... its just a game that's okay.

Wonka pinball will never fade away for several reasons... the original movie will continue forever. Furthermore there are rumors that Universal Studios is going to build a Willy Wonka attraction in Orlando based on the original movie.

Willy Wonka isn't going anywhere but Octoberfest well we can always think about it every October. LOL

Willy Wonka is the better game even without the movie tie in... lastly and again I'm a fan of American Pinball but they need to stop doing these types of themes and get in the game. It's time for them to stop messing around, license something, hire a better CGI artist and start kicking in the doors!

These guys can do it but they need to license something so they'll have a chance at selling 1,000 units or more.

#42 6 months ago
Quoted from Daditude:

Are there any official numbers on "sold" machines available yet?

American pinball will never release sales figures.

#43 6 months ago

drfrightner Would you trade American doing a good licensed theme for the loss of money going into mechs and features?

#44 6 months ago
Quoted from GrandFireball1:

drfrightner Would you trade American doing a good licensed theme for the loss of money going into mechs and features?

I'm not sure I understand the question. But if you're saying would I trade them doing an original theme, with more bells and whistles than doing a license and spending less on bells and whistles. Is that what you mean?

Why does it have to be one or the other? I can tell you right now they could license Halloween for 50k, and I could design that blindfolded, and add features NO ONE has ever done or tried before. I design attractions for a living, and we do a lot of video FX, you could build Myers house and add small TV's in the windows and make it look like he's walking around the house. Wouldn't that be bad ass?

Anyway ... its not about dummy down the machine, its about upping the game. Octoberfest is just frankly an awful theme, it just is! I don't know who came up with that idea, but the owners of American Pinball need to see some outside guidance. Then they want to consider Robin Hood are you kidding me... every single Robin Hood movie BOMBS we don't need Robin Hood pinball.

If they made Halloween, and announce the following:

We licensed Halloween and there is only ONE model and each game is 7k and limited to the first 1000 orders. Overnight 1000 games are going to sell, because that franchise has more than 1000 fans let me tell you. So instead of messing around with Octoberfest and selling 300 games at a struggle... pre-sale 1000 Halloween games in 60 seconds. Then turn around and license Friday the 13th, or Three Stooges easy to obtain license and do it again.

You could do even more mechs because you're making MORE MONEY!

Its not an either or thing, its you're either ALL IN or you're NOT! Don't compete with Stern or JJP for the license to Matrix, go to Airplane, Ferris Bueller Day Off, Bill and Ted Excellent Adventure, Halloween, Army of Darkness, whatever... heck get the license to Def Leppard you could get that. Pour some Sugar on me baby...

If you do games like Octoberfest and Robin Hood you're just spinning your wheels in the mud!

#45 6 months ago
Quoted from Coz:

American pinball will never release sales figures.

It's a small community people within that group KNOW... they order parts, they order cabinets, screens, etc.

From what I've been told Houdini is at or around 300 to 400 machines. The theme almost seems licensed when its not. He's a public figure who's in the public domain. I think that gave that game a sales boost.

Octoberfest will end up I think slightly less between 250 and 350 probably.

Speaking of Public Domain Wizard of Oz is public domain someone could technically make their own version of that pinball game believe it or not. You couldn't use things from the movie, but rather the book. Dorothy for example in the book had silver slippers, if you used red you could get sued. But you could a pinball game based on many famous things including almost everything Disney has ever done including Snow White, to Peter Pan.

With all the things in the public domain why Octoberfest? Again I like American Pinball its time for them to PONY UP and license something COOL!

#46 6 months ago
Quoted from drfrightner:

I'm not sure I understand the question. But if you're saying would I trade them doing an original theme, with more bells and whistles than doing a license and spending less on bells and whistles. Is that what you mean?
Why does it have to be one or the other? I can tell you right now they could license Halloween for 50k, and I could design that blindfolded, and add features NO ONE has ever done or tried before. I design attractions for a living, and we do a lot of video FX, you could build Myers house and add small TV's in the windows and make it look like he's walking around the house. Wouldn't that be bad ass?
Anyway ... its not about dummy down the machine, its about upping the game. Octoberfest is just frankly an awful theme, it just is! I don't know who came up with that idea, but the owners of American Pinball need to see some outside guidance. Then they want to consider Robin Hood are you kidding me... every single Robin Hood movie BOMBS we don't need Robin Hood pinball.
If they made Halloween, and announce the following:
We licensed Halloween and there is only ONE model and each game is 7k and limited to the first 1000 orders. Overnight 1000 games are going to sell, because that franchise has more than 1000 fans let me tell you. So instead of messing around with Octoberfest and selling 300 games at a struggle... pre-sale 1000 Halloween games in 60 seconds. Then turn around and license Friday the 13th, or Three Stooges easy to obtain license and do it again.
You could do even more mechs because you're making MORE MONEY!
Its not an either or thing, its you're either ALL IN or you're NOT! Don't compete with Stern or JJP for the license to Matrix, go to Airplane, Ferris Bueller Day Off, Bill and Ted Excellent Adventure, Halloween, Army of Darkness, whatever... heck get the license to Def Leppard you could get that. Pour some Sugar on me baby...
If you do games like Octoberfest and Robin Hood you're just spinning your wheels in the mud!

All good points, and I would love a Halloween game. But enthusiasts of B themes generally aren’t going to throw down $7k on a pinball machine sight unseen. Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t see it. I don’t fault American trying to get into more unique themes, but I really do hope their next game will be a stronger hit. They have everything going for them besides demand, and that could easily be because of theme.

#47 6 months ago
Quoted from GrandFireball1:

All good points, and I would love a Halloween game. But enthusiasts of B themes generally aren’t going to throw down $7k on a pinball machine sight unseen. Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t see it. I don’t fault American trying to get into more unique themes, but I really do hope their next game will be a stronger hit. They have everything going for them besides demand, and that could easily be because of theme.

I agree with you. However on the 7k front I mentioned 7k because they're trying to sell Octoberfest for 7400... I was suggesting lowering the price.

Maybe if they license something they should do the two model approach which is what i think Stern should do ... $5800 and $7200 or something like that.

But doing Robin Hood is going to spell doom for this company, or any title like that going forward. I suggested they do a Beach theme, with Shark attacks, if you're going to stay in the original lane. I would go for something like Halloween or Friday the 13th. I think both would be HUGE!

#48 6 months ago

I find both of these to be snoozefests.

Makes me want to play the new Black Knight that I don't really like either.

-1
#49 6 months ago
Quoted from drfrightner:I agree with you. However on the 7k front I mentioned 7k because they're trying to sell Octoberfest for 7400... I was suggesting lowering the price.
Maybe if they license something they should do the two model approach which is what i think Stern should do ... $5800 and $7200 or something like that.
But doing Robin Hood is going to spell doom for this company, or any title like that going forward. I suggested they do a Beach theme, with Shark attacks, if you're going to stay in the original lane. I would go for something like Halloween or Friday the 13th. I think both would be HUGE!

Not sure how real the rumor was, but at some point I heard American had plans to do contract games, such as that Nightmare before Christmas custom game. Now THAT would be cool. They could crank out a recognizable B theme with tons of features and have a separate line for contract pins. Sounds too good to be true, but it’s possible

#50 6 months ago
Quoted from GrandFireball1:

Not sure how real the rumor was, but at some point I heard American had plans to do contract games, such as that Nightmare before Christmas custom game. Now THAT would be cool. They could crank out a recognizable B theme with tons of features and have a separate line for contract pins. Sounds too good to be true, but it’s possible

I will tell you this... either these guys have more money to pour down the drain or they have some big plans we don't know about. Here is what I mean...

1) They just got a new big factory. Why? They don't need it making 2 to 3 hundred games per new release. There is no way this company is making money, they have to be losing money hand over fist. I heard they're part of a big company, so they must be in it over the long haul. Why would you buy a bigger warehouse? What you're stating could be true...

I'll throw out another rumor for you... are you ready for this? They start making games for Chicago Gaming!

Remember you heard it here first... this would explain the need for a bigger factory. Chicago Gaming use to have Stern make their games until they had a falling out I could see Chicago Gaming partnering with American Pinball to make their games going forward or a combination of Chicago making some and American Pinball making some.

I'll bet you 100 bucks that gets mentioned very soon!

This is only logical because I'm not trying to be mean but there is NO NEED for American Pinball to invest that kind of money into a bigger space, when they have no track record of selling many games.

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