Oktoberfest
American Pinball, 2018You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider zablon.
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You guys realize that if a monkey does it, it's cute. It's only assault if you do it. Lighten up. It's a pinball game.
Why is this discussion spilling over into a buy thread anyway? There's already a Oktoberfest bashing thread. No need for 2.
LMAO really, SJW in a pinball thread? Go google women being groped by monkeys. There's plenty of it out there who clearly are not going to take the monkeys to court. Are you another one of those people just looking for something to rage against? Look, I get it, you don't like it, but the people trying to make it into some offensive thing women would balk at are clueless. My wife laughed when she saw it. Now, as to whether it belongs in the theme? No idea. Much like the people complaining about the girl with the moustache had no idea that was a big part of Oktoberfest...so I mean, as usual the vocal few are trying to make it sound like they are the majority.
I've changed my mind. They need to remove the balls from the game. We wouldn't want to offend those without. Better yet, all new pinballs should have artwork similar to Supreme, there's nothing to be offended about there. And no sounds, because we wouldn't want to offend deaf people. I could go on, because once you start, it never stops. EVERYONE is offended by something.
At this rate many 70's/80's pins should be burned for their subject matter and artwork.
Quoted from TheLaw:Yet I'm still typing with only one hand so...really whom's to blame?
I appreciate after 3 years you've just now started coming on the forums and learning what they are like. You're going to be amazed.
LOL, yea, I should know. I'm not new to forums. Heck you should see the cat fights on my wifes' quilting and cross stitching forums. Gets brutal.
Quoted from PinMonk:You can enjoy beer without being alcoholic. I rarely drink it, but always enjoy it when I do.
Well, you can enjoy a monkey's hand on your rear without being into beasti-....wait...n/m.
Quoted from Dragon:I didn't think pinball players were politically correct , thats why i like them folks, political correctness is mind control . enjoy your mind control
being nice and kind and empathetic is one thing, but the pendulum is swinging knee jerk into a wall and being welded there. It's getting crazy. I agree, the internet is ruining the world. It was much better when only the geeks/nerds were part of it.
Quoted from Bublehead:I dont know about you but I am sticking up for my mother, my wife, my sister, my daughters, my nieces, my aunts, my daughters in law, my sisters in law, my mother in law... do I have to go on? Guys who say I am stepping up for women just because I want to gain favor with them, yeah you got me, I am, I am sticking up for all the ones I just mentioned and all the ones I have not you troglodyte. Tell me just WTF is wrong with that? Hmm? Grow up people. Get you minds out of the gutters and off sex and back on the playfields and pinball, ok? Nothing to see here... move this on will ya? This is one Evil monkey I will be happy to forget and not soon enough.
Speaking of growing up, please save the rhetoric. *extreme eyeroll*
Let me school you on perspective. A few years ago I made a virtual pin. I modeled my own artwork loosely on Big Bang Bar. I put in lots of various things happening in the art. In one section there was a T-800 head laying on a table, the Thing (TAF) coming out of a drawer holding a Xenon tube. The flame demon from LOTR was also on this table spewing fire. Due to the configuration, someone mentioned it looked like the T-800 was smoking a crack pipe. This had never occurred to me. Not one bit. Because people smoking crack are not at the top of my list of things to think about. Perspective. Gutter mind? Probably the people who saw it as monkey rape (which in of itself is laugh out loud silly to even think).
Now that I think about it, BBB must totally trigger some of you.
In this thread we've seen it called illegal and assault, compared to priests touching little boys, etc. I think it is safe to say the extremists are out in full force and regardless what they claim, they were never going to buy this machine anyway. People found something to jump in a mob mentality about (and my guess is it was COMPLETELY misconstrued). Even if it wasn't, it by no means deserved the amount of vitriol and over the top hysteria being shown here.
Quoted from Dragon:make a sticker mod that draws the monkey hand onto the outside of the skirt on the back glass it could be a series of hand gestures too
then again maybe some research and development is in order "Octoberfest 2019"
heres another one a beer stein drink holder or a ice cold frosty beer glass holder w/ led mood lighting
or a pair of monkey gargoyle's with red light eyes, if you motorize it and it can give the finger when you drain or just finish up on its glass of beer
No No, just a big CENSORED sticker 
Quoted from dnapac:My wife, of 25 years, thinks this all is silly. It’s pinball. If you don’t like it, don’t play it or buy it.
That's not how the world works these days. If anyone is remotely teeny bit offended by something they start a crusade to stop it. Because they think they are better than everyone else. Tolerance is what they ask for, but they do not give. I'm all about respecting women, but this fiasco is crazy wanna be rage. Tons of things wrong in the world that are way more important than some little art piece on a pinball machine, but I'm not brainwashed and entitled.
Quoted from nwpinball:True enough. American has said the art is being changed, people need to stop whining about. Play it or don't, buy it or don't. It's a done deal, no reason to keep beating a dead horse. Or monkey, as the case may be
This moved beyond this pinball machine and this piece to what we can expect in the future. Say goodbye to original themes, and any sense of humor. The precedent has been made. People are offended by everything, and they will make sure they tell you. People with common sense know that you can just not buy the product if you don't like what it portrays. Instead the crazies want to shut everything down, and yes, they are crazy if this offended them. I hope that in removing it, those people all go out and buy it, but we know the majority won't, because that's not how they work.
Anyway, I've said my piece...a time or two too much I'm sure.
I hope this pinball does well. It looks really fun and once I can actually try it out I might buy it.
Quoted from Aurich:You sound hysterical. SAY GOODBYE TO ORIGINAL THEMES AND ANY SENSE OF HUMOR. Dramatic much?
I designed a new translite for ACDC featuring a big pair of scantily clad demon boobs with erect nipples, I'm not a prude, and I don't think breasts need to be banished from all pinball art. But I think the monkey is dumb and gross, I don't want to watch it grabbing women's asses either. They should go back and redo a lot of the art while they're at it, it's obviously not a home run with people.
You can be down with this: [quoted image]
And be amused by blowjob jokes in Scared Stiff, and think that women being butt grabbed by a monkey is gross. Chill out.
Eh, it's not so much hysterical as pretty much proven in other areas where things like this has happened. Companies are not going to take chances and push boundaries if they are afraid they are going to get rick rolled over it. To me it's not about the monkey being there or not, but what it represents. I understand that someone could see it tacky or in bad taste if interpreted as it has been, that's not what bothers me.
Quoted from MonsieurCS:You're not getting it. Your marginalizing the very real statements of actual pinball playing woman, who aren't just "remotely teeny bit offended by something", but reminded of traumatic experiences in their lives.
Unless you're some sort of sociopath who doesn't care about your fellow human beings, it doesn't seem to make a whole lot of logical sense to fight a battle (for comedy?), where people end up feeling hurt. And all just for a laugh?
Everyone, including the monkey (at this point an avatar for American Pinball), should lead by example; it's why some people even "start crusades", as you said, to do the right thing.
And when you're speaking of people not showing tolerance, you just mean you want them to be tolerant of the fact that you get laughs from a monkey grabbing a woman's butt, regardless of the fact that you know it makes people upset. Think about the cruelty in what you're saying. And why some people might be "intolerant" of that way of thought.
I really was done on this topic, but let me ask you it this way:
If 1 person is offended by something, then should it be banned/removed?
Is 1 persons opinion greater than everyone else's?
If not 1 person, what is the magic #?
If it isn't the majority, then should everyone be expected to cater to the more vocal minority when they have no actual stake in it?
Unfortunately, this subject is too nuanced to solve over a web forum, and in no way am I trying to offend or belittle anyone's experiences or feelings. I do feel the person has some responsibility in cases such as these. You can choose not to buy the product. Plain and simple. A monkey on a backglass is not going to cause sexual assualt any more than a car causes people to road rage, etc. Bad people are going to do bad things, with or without. The mentality that you are going to stop bad things because you stamp out ideas (movies, music, art, games, tools) is fruitless. The idea that everyone should be without so you don't feel uncomfortable is selfish. You might say it's selfish to think that way, but again, I refer to the above questions. There has to be a limit, or it is just a constant downward spiral.
For one, I don't think black lesbian females are represented enough on this machine and it offends me. Should I go get a group who agree with me and plaster their fb and demand they be represented? Discuss.
Quoted from konjurer:you can be sexy without being offensive.
API has handled this very well. You apologize and move on.
But see that has been my point all along. You can't. Someone will be offended by cleavage, etc. It's just a matter of if they feel like being vocal about it. The post about the AC/DC translite is an example. It objectifies women, and guarantee if the right person saw it and/or he was an actual company, there would be people with pitchforks demanding something change. Most likely the majority of women wouldn't have a problem with it, but the last few years have shown us it only takes a small vocal few to turn things upside down over little of nothing.
I agree AP handled it well. It will be interesting to see what the real fallout of this will be. You can guarantee other pinball companies have been watching this play out and decisions going forward will be impacted by this turn of events. I think many have misunderstood my argument though, I don't really care if the monkey is there or not. It's more about the over the top reactions to something harmless (that is being perceived as harmful) and the precedent.
It is why I made the comparison to Big Bang Bar, and someone else mentioned Scared Stiff. Those would not fly in today's environment and anyone who has an issue with this is hypocritical if they don't have an issue with those.
Quoted from Bublehead:There is pulsing of the magnet, so you control how long it is on. Hold it longer to get more magna save like action, or pulse it to redirect ball path. AP rep said you dont need to use the magnets to advance so you can ignore the extra buttons if you want.
is it the 3rd button, or the normal flipper buttons? does one button control the 2 player controlled?
Quoted from Yelobird:It was a third button granted I was to focused on the 2 and failing but as I didn’t know where the magnets were I wasn’t sure when to control them.
I'm a sucker for magnets lol. It was the main thing that attracted me to this pin. I don't really drink, but I do like original themes more than licenses.
Quoted from adol75:And next is the outrage at the outrage at the outrage. An ongoing outrageous story !
Free press is free press. You KNOW they are going through the art with a fine tooth comb now. Dissecting every hidden gem to determine if someone will freak out over it.
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:I have some wild stories about this Lady, Cynthia was her name, she was from Texas, from 1987....
VIVA OKTOBERFEST!
[quoted image]
Please tell me you didn't put your thingy in that box.
Quoted from Procrastinator:Amen.
I don’t necessarily care for the art. I think overall it’s ok, but nothing I find super appealing. I also respect people’s opinions that don’t like it, and the people that love it. The issue isn’t having an opinion, the issue is the ridiculous outrage.
Outrage is the Facebook comments, accusing a monkey of sexual assault (WTF?), rolling consent and rape into the convo, and blaming it on “white privilege”. You don’t like the art? Fine, express your opinion however you’d like. Just don’t be surprised when you use progressive buzzwords to justify your opinion that you will get push back.
A simple, “I don’t like the art and won’t buy because if it, I hope they change it” is reasonable.
“How tone deaf in the time of metoo that shows a monkey committing a crime of assault. Here again, white old male privilege rearing it’s disgusting head reminding women they aren’t welcome and basically condoning sexual assault. They better change the art or I will make sure everyone I know understands how vile and misogynistic AP is”, is unreasonable.
(Obviously a lot of comments rolled into one, but you get the point)
Words have consequences and if more people were selective about how they express themselves, it would be a great service to everyone. You may be pleasantly surprised with how many people agree with you. However, when the most extreme examples are used right off the bat, you’ve instantly pushed some people away with your outrage.
...or lastly, do whatever you want. It’s a free country. You want to scream until your red in the face about drug dealing, alcoholic, castrated serial rapist monkey? Have at it, just don’t be surprised when your mocked relentlessly.
That's the problem with these type of things though, you are either with them or against them and then they will try to demonize you to get their point across. They don't believe that everything is not black and white and that 'freedom of choice' is a huge thing. This can be seen by the quick jumps to comparisons of priests and children and the 'think of the children' syndrome. It's not a step backwards as someone stated. A step backwards is stifling others because you don't agree with it.
Quoted from nwpinball:No, you don't get to get lie about my post. I said if the art showed a priest grabbing an alterboy, you'd probably be grossed out by it. My point was women are grossed out by this art, here's something similar that would gross you out, maybe this will help you understand how it is for women. Or not, maybe you don't understand an example or a comparison in an argument to help you learn to have feelings and empathize.
No one is telling you what you can't do or can't say. People are telling you how they want to be treated. Women don't want to be treated like objects, they don't want to be grabbed without consent. It happens at pinball tournaments and at shows and they feel this reinforces that's OK. Women tell you this, fellow men tell you this... and your and other's reactions is to lie and call them names, to get angry, to kick and scream that their opinions aren't valid. You look childish, angry, unable to deal with adult conversations. The art has been changed, you need to deal with it. Grow up, grow as a person, stop being so mean to your fellow humans, and stop making yourself look so childish. Be an adult and deal with it.
I did not lie about what you said, you made the comparison, therefore equated it to it. You can't pick and choose as you see fit. I understand SOME women and SOME men are offended by this, that has never been the issue and I've made that very clear, as well as I do not condone any such things and this certainly should not be happening at events or anywhere. We both have opinions, the difference between us is that I'm mature enough to let people make their own choice rather than try to condemn them and make them out to be 'unempathetic <insert noun here>' as has been stated and insinuated by a few multiple times. I have said people are insane to be offended by it and I stand by it, because only insane people look at this and are traumatized.
So I guess in closing, maybe you should look in the mirror and take your own advice, because mature people could have this conversation without that nonsense and look at it a bit more obtusely.
Quoted from nwpinball:Come on dude, it's great you are trying to reel in your crazy, but you were just calling everyone pansies, lying, exaggerating, and being a straight out jerk and still calling people insane that disagree with you. You are acting like a child that isn't getting things their way. The art was bad, the art has been changed, the company apologized, and it got changed not because it was sexy, but because it depicted non-consensual grabbing. Stop saying people are offended by it, the art is dumb and sends a bad message. The only people that are offended are you people that can't handle the change. It's funny when the people that are always calling people pansies and snowflakes act like exactly like the names they throw out. Grow up.
I think you must be confusing me with someone else. While I'm strongly opinionated regarding the overall subject, I don't care one way or the other about the monkey (as I've stated). People ARE(were) offended by it, so why not state that? Are you trying to pull a Trump here? It's funny when people over react to things that aren't a big deal, and throw out names, yes it is true....so while I'm not directing that at you, it is a huge part of this because it was coming from the other side of the fence. People calling peoples characters into question because they didn't find it offensive and this happened many times over the course of the thread. I'm afraid you are confused. I was initially surprised by the spite in this thread regarding the subject and yea, I called out SJW, but that's exactly what it was. Those are the extremes, rather than someone clear headed thinking about both sides of it.
Quoted from stumptown:Man... Nothing like a thread on Pinside about controversial art to remind me how much of this scene is a dumpster fire of the worst humanity has to offer. Not that pinball is alone there, but wow.
Oh trust me, this place is mild compared to some. People here have for the most part have kept civil.
Quoted from nwpinball:Consider that while it means nothing to you and doesn't seem like a grey area or misogynist to you, that may because you grew up as a man. It may have cause a completely different reaction to the women in our community. Personally I think it's the very first pinball art I've seen totally cross the line, it just took things way too far. And for perspective I've been playing pinball since the 70s and collecting for 25 years. For those that don't get it, I'd say, stop talking for a minute and listen to your community. Grow. And listen and talk to the women in your lives. You will be a better person for it.
Maybe that's the difference, I respect that older white males have that stance, because many that I know are bigots, racists and misogynistic. However, the women I've talked to about it (which range from 20's-40's) have no issue with it, and yes, some of those ladies have had bad experiences in their past. What I ask is you and others quit making it sound like 'all the women have an issue with it' because they don't and that because people state that they don't see a problem with it, they are emotionless pigs, because they are not.
Quoted from o-din:Look no further than one of the recent pinball clowns.
https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/8070842/kiss-gene-simmons-accused-sexual-battery-lawsuit
That's kind of funny because I was going to bring up what are all these stand up people going to do with their rock/metal pinball machines when their favorite bands go through the current #metoo phase. Then their tolerance and integrity will be tested.
Quoted from Eryeal:It still amazes me that so many here see absolutely no difference between a monkey reaching under a skirt and scantily clad women.
It still amazes me that so many people make this assumption after all this back and forth. There's a point being made. Many people are missing it.
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:Where does this fall?
[quoted image]
If we use the money way of comparison (for inflation):
child porn put out by entitled white males in a rape culture.
At least...that's what it feels like these days.
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