I just spent a good hour searching through the aforementioned topic looking for the cheeky monkey removal discussion, but I can't find it... I admit that I didn't look through all 69 pages though, but I thought my scanning method was reasonably good... can anyone confirm which pages focussed on this topic?

Yep, it really stands out by the shooter lane.
The old backglass with everyones back facing you is weird, sort of rude and not interesting. The new one highlights the german clothes and beer that adds to the theme more. The old looks like a busy mess from a short distance and can't tell whats going on immediately. There were no focal points.

Understood, but the liking or disliking of this is objective of course... personally I liked the backwards facing people, especially these two ladies... but the whole 'queuing to get to the bar' feel of the initial art was good for me... more busy than what's there now, yes... it's a busy game... Oktoberfest is a busy and chaotic place... tied in nicely therefore...
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I preferred the original art and American Pinball should let customers have the option since it’s a matter of taste.

Couldn't agree more!

How very cool!

I haven't been to the one in Munich since the 80's so I don't know about tickets there, but in the US most large festivals and fairs sell tickets for beer,food,and rides so only one place is collecting cash rather than at each tent/ride.
Also some states have weird laws about selling alcohol at open air events so they sell tickets which are redeemed for beer so they technically aren't selling the beer.

Has anyone else had issues with updating the code? I updated and it is stuck on the loading screen.

67FF1DF6-970A-4B24-B4CD-9C5E309EEDF3 (resized).jpeg

I see... I thought this was probably the case... thanks for clarifying.

That's just plain nuts, but also believable! Reminds me of pachinko parlours in Japan where gambling is illegal... you can't win money, because that's gambling, but you can win prizes... I saw a guy exchanging his won balls for about 30 identical watches, then he left the parlour and sold the watches back to the parlour through a side window for cash... madness.

I emailed you the solution.

Because American Pinball wants to be a good steward in the pinball community, we must consider everyone. Therefore, the original backglass will never be available from us.

That original backglass was one of the things that made me pull the trigger on this game... I didn't even know there was an alternative... what exactly was the issue with the old one? I understand that some people thought the monkey was touching someone's butt, but he was clearly reaching for a sausage... ok, there was an innuendo there, as there are in the callouts, so it matches the game... was there any other issue with it?

Thanks Barry

We would tell you but company policy and the sealed court order prevent us from discussing it publicly
(that was a joke btw)

This topic was debated ad nauseum about 10 months ago. Start around here on these threads:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/joe-balcer-confirms-oktoberfest-as-american-pinbals-next-pin/page/31#post-4666612

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-do-you-like-or-dislike-about-oktoberfest/page/2#post-4657436

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/beatles-vs-oktoberfest/page/2#post-4658533

I have a lot of respect for American Pinball, I very rarely buy NIB pins, but this game drew me in... the quirky artwork being part of that... but I have to say that the above quote is pretty contradictory, you have to admit... how is considering everyone to not make the artwork of the original glass available to anyone?? It's basically saying that the people who want that artwork are no-one... they don't count as anyone... the game has 'adult' callouts which you can turn on and of... here you HAVE considered everyone because he who wants it can turn it on, and he who doesn't can turn it of... everyone happy... using the above logic, however, removing all non-family-friendly call outs is the real way to consider everyone... can you see how this simply doesn't make sense... by not making the original artwork available you are not considering everyone at all, you're only considering those that don't want it... bearing in mind the game ships with this new artwork anyway, how is refusing to sell the original art to those who want it considering anyone? Those who don't want it will simply stick with what was sent with the game, but those who do will be totally un-considered... I don't get it... can't you consider me, as a customer... please...?

I saw a few posts in those topics touching on the subject, but did not detect any ad nauseum elememt to them... just a lot of downvotes to those suggesting the monkey is bad... seems like AP are not considering those downvotes opinions even though they're in the majority...

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Believe me, between the various threads as well as most (if not all) podcasts at the time, this subject was covered ad nauseum.

American Pinball is also wise enough to realize that the vocal monkey art defenders on Pinside don't necessarily represent the majority of their customers' views or what the right thing was to do in this case.

But they do believe that considering everyone means not considering those that prefer the original backglass by making available to purchase through their website.. I really don't see the wisdom in that or how it considers everyone...

Hahaha! That crazylevi guy with the comment on molestation started a thread bragging about playing Hugh Heffners personal playboy pin and seeing his chair! What a hypocrit. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/nib-never-played-hefner-playboy

It's not a matter of considering what some people would like to see. It's current applicable social standards. Agree with them or not.

FWIW, many pinheads (including me) would like to see the game offered in a more adult version, but we draw the line at a monkey putting his hand up a woman's skirt.

Where I live the applicable social standard allows a cartoon image of a monkey with his hand up someone's skirt... you see a lot worse than that on advertising billboards by the side of the road! AP are simply not considering everyone by refusing to sell the artwork to people who want it... I believe I am someone, and they are not considering me, like it or not. I bought this game believing this is the artwork I would get... I feel conned if I can't even buy it from the people who made it.

Need I point out that the game is made in the USA, by an American company, and primarily for American customers. It's their product and they have the right to offer artwork variations or not as they see fit.

Regardless, the fact that you feel conned by AP because you weren't aware of a widely publicized backglass change that they made 10 months ago, is on you - not them.

Need I point out that they are selling these games overseas. I don't understand why you have an interest in defending APs decision to not sell a product which was displayed on their game to customers... I get that you want to blame me for not fully researching the situation before I bought in, but I don't get why it concerns you.

LOL

Have a good day!

And about the time of this there were threads on Pinside about all the crap women put up with at leagues and tournaments. Then here is a backglass with a monkey assaulting a woman.

It's our responsibility to make pinball safe for everyone. Like it or not. American Pinball did the right thing.

LTG : )

I can agree that they did the right thing in making the standard glass the glass that goes in the game, but I don't get how selling the 'funny glass' to those that want it in their homes is not the right thing... it's simply not considering the desire of those people. How is it unsafe to please customers who plan to use their product privately in a country where this artwork would offend no-one anyway?? Did you know that in the Czech Republic there is a day when it is obligatory for men to whip the asses of women in the street, and if a woman doesn't get her ass whipped on this day then she'll be very disappointed. Who will is be unsafe for if I'm allowed to buy that glass? I respect everyone's view on this, but at the same time I don't understand what the problem is if I have this in my home...

Check with American Pinball.

It may have nothing to do with the monkey. They may have no desire to sell backglasses. And besides the monkey, Matt Reister and Joe Balcer might not want their likenesses out there.

Let us know American Pinball's response.

LTG : )

The sanitised backglass is for sale on thier website in case anyone with the game with this glass in it already wants to change it for the same artwork.

I have written to them.

Personally I have almost zero desire to have the monkey in the artwork anyway... he's a novelty... my main gripe is the loss of what I consider to be superior attractiveness of certain people in the queue... see above. Two massive figures of Otto and the ticket touting frau don't do a great deal for me... they do some stunning artwork that lure people in and then scrap it for the production games... not good IMO.

If I can't have her on my game, I'll have her as my av.

The original back glass was never in production it was on the prototypes only, there were real people's likeness on it that were never intended to go public, they were prototype only and less than 10 were made. Then add to that the monkeygate stuff...

The final production back glass was the back glass at shows and in all our advertisement.
That being said I believe you are going to thoroughly enjoy the game

Thanks for the explanation... I'm still a bit bummed though that there was such a drastic change... why not just remove the monkey and the likenesses and leave it at that? It looks like a lot of work went into that thing!! It was, to me, a beautiful achievement, more so than the final version...

I'm one of the least politically correct people around and I drew the line on the monkey. I wasn't horribly offended but it's just not appropriate anymore to have imagery of women getting groped without their consent. Not sure there was ever a time when this was appropriate as it's better known as sexual assault.

At a time when we're starting to get women into the hobby we don't need images of women getting groped on new pinball machines. Unfortunately, there seem to be idiots in this hobby that can't keep their hands off women and can't keep from blurting inappropriate comments around women at pinball tournaments and location play.

I have no criticism towards the API artist either. I produced a graphic for a flyer at work. Someone became offended with a small "element" on the flyer and I got a call from the Office of Diversity at my workplace. I had absolutely no intention of offending - but in hindsight I could see how it was taken wrong. I was very embarrassed and recalled the artwork immediately. API did the right thing here and I applaud them for doing so.

There is one company that sells alternative, R-rated translites. You could always approach them to create a sexier translite for Oktoberfest. I would rather see a sexier translite than a perverted monkey.

For me personally, as I stated above, I have almost zero interest in the monkey... I just think the rest of the art package is excellent... I don't need sexier artwork... what's there, withput the monkey, will do perfectly!

As for the tickets. A little weird to place on the translite but I thought Josh may have explained that tickets are a part of Oktoberfest. I just looked it up...

Admittance to the 14 tents is free but really hard to get into. Like a Disney Fast Pass, you can buy "reservation tickets" for parties of 10 or more. This serves two purposes; you're guaranteed a spot in a tent and you can redeem the tickets for food and beer once you get inside. Reservation tickets are also very hard to come by. I'm guessing this is what API had in mind with the tickets.

This is one of the things I like about API's art packages... there is a lot of detail and history that goes into the artwork. Almost like "Where's Waldo?" You can spend a lot of time finding little Easter eggs.

I think that's a good suggestion... of course you're right, they are 100% free to sell whatever they want to whoever they want, and I'm also free to moan about it if I can't buy what I thought I'd already bought The thing that got my back up a bit is that they said above that they want to consider everyone, and that's why no-one can buy this art from them... the two parts of that statement don't connect... how is it considering the person that wants what they won't sell... if they don't want to sell it, OK... but to say that they are considering everyone by doing that is not strictly accurate is it... if you get my drift... fixated on sexualised cartoon images or not... which is probably a by product of playing too many pinballs from the 80's

That's OK, I needed a slap in the face to calm down... thanks for providing it

Where I live, pins in the wild pretty much don't exist, and if they do they're usually things from the 90s that operators are barely keeping alive... so for me to play a new game, the only real choice is to buy it!! I can't go buying every pin I like the look of, so my choice is tough since there are so many tempting titles out there, each with its own fan-base saying why the game they love is the best... based on this and watching streams etc I can only imagine how I'd feel to play the game... it's tough, but Oktoberfest, which I never imagined I'd be interested in based on the theme, ended up ticking all the boxes... I certainly don't want to put any downers on the game just because of some backglass art that's for sure... was just a bit miffed that the art I saw when checking the game out wasn't part of the deal, but also strictly not available... I hope the characters in the pop bumper cars come with the game...

You made a good decision. You are getting a great game and I'm sure you'll enjoy it. It's a lot of fun.

I'm sorry to be the one to let you know. Being in another country might be hard for you to know the pictures you see might be prototypes or not. The characters got in the way of the wireforms and were left out of production games. Fortunately you can add some if you like. Yelobird ( themodcouple.com ) has a modest monkey you can get :

https://themodcouplepinball.com/collections/api-houdini-custom-mods-collection/products/api-houdini-q-the-robot-illuminated-custom-mod

Ebay would be a source for a small yellow duck in liederhosen. I forget what the other character was.

In other news the roller coaster framework on the left side is really cool. They did make that better.

LTG : )

Noooo! I did see some pics of empty cars, but for some reason I thought the characters that sat in them were optional in the game, and that particular owner decided not to install them... thanks a lot for the pointers of where to track stuff down... not sure if the comment of finding a plastic duck in leiderhosen was a joke or not, sure doesn't sound like an item easy to find on ebay

You'll be telling me that they removed the characters on the cabinet artwork next!! I've seen versions with no characters there... I'm hoping that was the prototype and they added them for the production game, but I have a sneaking suspicion it's going to be a case of wishful thinking there... moustache woman is still there no... she also got negative comments...

I just saw in the thread related ads that appear at the bottom of this page... you can scroll through there and find the complete game... have a look at it... attached below... strange that this is being advertised for sale when you obviously can't buy what's seen there... I guess that means by by to the Otto side art...

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The final (sales version) Oktoberfest game:

https://www.american-pinball.com/games/oktoberfest/

You're welcome!

I think the third bumper car driver was a sausage type thing. The removal of the bumper car drivers is a big disappointment. I don't love either of the backglasses, both just okay to me.

It is pretty easy to find pretty much any type of themed rubber ducky that you could imagine. Finding the right size might be tricky though. I suspects if somebody could sell a lot of drivers if they could produce them in a size that didn't mess with the game.

As for mustache girl, she was moved to another plastic.

No. American Pinball really digs into the obscure with their games. Like the band aid on the monkey crotch ( from Houdini ) the toy ducks in Liederhosen. Apparently a lot of people attending Octoberfests carry around these small ducks dressed up in liederhosen.

So American Pinball uses it on art work and stuff.

LTG : )

I'm fully aware of that now, thanks... I'm just pointing out that the stupid amongst us, such as myself, may be fooled into thinking that the game displayed in the ads which appear below this topic's pages may actually exist.

You're welcome.

So there is hope, thanks!

Yep, they were another feature that drew me in! My advice to AP is that they make these as an aftermarket mod... they've got all the necessary sizing info and did it once for the proto's, so it should be relatively straight forwards for them...

When you contact them, be sure and ask about this.

LTG : )

I will... only after my attempts to ween from them the desired backglass art have come to a conclusion... don't want to overload them with requests...