(Topic ID: 240640)

Oktoberfest - Wonka Discussion


By konjurer

38 days ago



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  • 96 posts
  • 51 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 13 days ago by TheFamilyArcade
  • Topic is favorited by 9 Pinsiders

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#1 38 days ago

Wonka SE looks awesome for the money and some people were quick to take jabs at Oktoberfest over in the Wonka thread. It does look like a great option. Wonka has better art and animations but, feature-to-feature, it appears that Oktoberfest has MORE stuff and new ideas in the mechanicals.

Here's what's in the Fest:

Ramp that raises and lowers
Rollercoaster Shack physical 3 ball lock
Upper Flipper
180 Ramp that feeds into lock
Beer Barrel physical 3 ball lock
Bar Toy that you bash to open then hit into bar and drop into the toy, Otto head spins (hmmm... functionally similar to the Goobstopper toy)
Two VUKs to some of the most interesting wireforms - clearly more interesting that Wonka wireframes
PROST bank of 5 slim line targets
OKTOBER bank of 7 slim line targets in crescent formation
FEST bank of 4 slim line targets also in crescent formation
3 Duck Targets
Full RGB LEDs on playfield and GI
4 Magnets
MagNab with 3rd button next to right flipper - right hand only mode
3 lanes into a 3 pop bumper nest
6 speaker audio plus 8" sub

I may end up with a BKSoR or a Wonka but I'm not going to dismiss Oktoberfest either - ton of stuff on that playfield and I love the beer and brats atmosphere of the Fest. Having not played it I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see anything revolutionary in Wonka. I think Balcer pushed the envelope just a bit more that Lawlor.

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#2 38 days ago

No Flame, dying to play both.
Great time in pinball right now, so many choices.
Thats why I picked up a WOZECLE today. So stoked!

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#3 38 days ago

Oktoberfest very fun pin . I like it !

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#4 38 days ago

Only one upper flipper?

12
#5 38 days ago

Played Oktoberfest last night. Me and my wife can’t get past the repetitive music and art and animations. It plays decent but should not be $7400 for what you get. Wonka SE is better in every measure.

-3
#6 38 days ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

Played Oktoberfest last night. Me and my wife can’t get past the repetitive music and art and animations. It plays decent but should not be $7400 for what you get. Wonka SE is better in every measure.

So convince me. You provide no facts. Not trying to troll here. Compare feature to feature. Oktoberfest has more on the playfield.

The cabinet art is lazy shit. Ugly ass black legs. Clipart on the backglass and playfield art. The music is repetitive as hell - sorry way more repetitive that Oktoberfest. I'm just saying the hype didn't live up to expectations.

#7 38 days ago
Quoted from konjurer:

So convince me. You provide no facts. Not trying to troll here. Compare feature to feature. Oktoberfest has more on the playfield.
The cabinet art is lazy shit. Ugly ass black legs. Clipart on the backglass and playfield art. The music is repetitive as hell - sorry way more repetitive that Oktoberfest. I'm just saying the hype didn't live up to expectations.

Seriously? I agree with you that Wonka did not live up to the hype but cmon now - Octoberfest poor animations, art and music alone is enough to give you an idea of why. Couple that with the undeniable smooth lawlor gameplay and jjp quality and features and it's a no brainer NOW that standard jjp is the same price

You're talking AAA vs the big leagues with the same price point and I personally like the way Octoberfest is laid out and shoots with the exception of that right flipper and the apparent left ramp that doesn't hit as expected.....

#8 38 days ago

Oh by the way,he’s not trying to troll here.lol

#9 38 days ago

I may end up buying a Wonka SE after playing. I'm just trying to be objective. Clearly there are more interesting mechs in Oktoberfest compared to the SE. Not saying it shoots better or has better art or animation. I've been extremely critical of the art and animations on Fest - BUT at the same time Wonka has some serious short comings in those areas too.

I posted my data on Fest... go ahead and compare. No one has taken me up on doing a fair comparison. Inform me. Personally, I feel let down by the reveal.

11
#10 38 days ago
Quoted from konjurer:

I may end up buying a Wonka SE after playing. I'm just trying to be objective. Clearly there are more interesting mechs in Oktoberfest compared to the SE. Not saying it shoots better or has better art or animation. I've been extremely critical of the art and animations on Fest - BUT at the same time Wonka has some serious short comings in those areas too.
I posted my data on Fest... go ahead and compare. No one has taken me up on doing a fair comparison. Inform me. Personally, I feel let down by the reveal.

I like what I see on Wonka. Not blown away

I’m excited to get my $7k delivered Ocktoberfest

#11 38 days ago

did you mention the very steep near impossible left ramp on as a feature on Oktoberfest.

I think I can say, without playing - that Wonka will be smoother and a better shooter

#12 38 days ago
Quoted from romulusx:

Oh by the way,he’s not trying to troll here.lol

Honestly I'm not. I really want to like Wonka. I've been pretty harsh on Oktoberfest over in that thread. I'm a value shopper. I just want to get the most fun and bang for my buck. After the reveal I spent some time reviewing the Oktoberfest stream and the feature matrix and I'm kinda shocked at how much more there APPEARS to be in Fest than Wonka. If you think my analysis is wrong I'm all ears.

#13 38 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

I think I can say, without playing - that Wonka will be smoother and a better shooter

I think you're likely right. At the end of the day, I want fun for my $$s. And I haven't written off ACNC yet either. I played it Expo and it sucked but the machine was having major issues so I want to give it another chance.

#14 38 days ago

I think theme wise I also like Oktoberfest better. I'm a big fan of Wonka but Oktoberfest seems more manly for my man cave. I resonate with beer and brats more. I also like the Oktoberfest sound track MUCH better.

Thinking about the Wonka theme... I was disappointed that it wasn't more dark. Wonka is a dark movie. Kids drowning and getting mutilated. Creepy Slugworth. Scary river ride. Wonka was super harsh, almost verbally abusive on Charlie.

One other minor annoyance on Wonka was the sound effects. I have the same issue with Dialed In. It sounds like a room full of redemption-style arcade games.

#15 38 days ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I like what I see on Wonka. Not blown away
I’m excited to get my $7k delivered Ocktoberfest

7k delivered is a sweet price. Hmmmmm remind me again, when are those animations getting fixed? Maybe I need to revisit this game haha

#16 38 days ago
Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

did you mention the very steep near impossible left ramp on as a feature on Oktoberfest.
I think I can say, without playing - that Wonka will be smoother and a better shooter

That ramp shop has been tweaked to fix that issue

Hopefully I’ll have mine next week

#17 38 days ago

I played Octoberfest at TPF and I found that to be better than any other new game at that show IMO.

I agree with the OP that at least in terms of reveal info (Wonka) Octoberfest prob a better bang for your buck for the price.

Wonka seems like a great shooter (awesome geometry) but very underwhelmed by the mechs/gimmicks. Wonka seems like a back to basics pin (like how Stern did with Iron Man - great game, but no crazy wow factor stuff). This is the first JJP game that to me, is MISSING "crazy wow factor" stuff. Every other JJP pin had cool shit, this game doesn't seem to have that. Again, underwhelmed.

#18 38 days ago
Quoted from konjurer:

So convince me. You provide no facts. Not trying to troll here. Compare feature to feature. Oktoberfest has more on the playfield.
The cabinet art is lazy shit. Ugly ass black legs. Clipart on the backglass and playfield art. The music is repetitive as hell - sorry way more repetitive that Oktoberfest. I'm just saying the hype didn't live up to expectations.

He may not have provided "facts" for his subjective taste but he has one major leg up on you, he's played both! Have you played either one?

#19 38 days ago
Quoted from Jojo1111:

I played Octoberfest at TPF and I found that to be better than any other new game at that show IMO.
I agree with the OP that at least in terms of reveal info (Wonka) Octoberfest prob a better bang for your buck for the price.
Wonka seems like a great shooter (awesome geometry) but very underwhelmed by the mechs/gimmicks. Wonka seems like a back to basics pin (like how Stern did with Iron Man - great game, but no crazy wow factor stuff). This is the first JJP game that to me, is MISSING "crazy wow factor" stuff. Every other JJP pin had cool shit, this game doesn't seem to have that. Again, underwhelmed.

I enjoyed ACNC much more than Oktoberfest at TPF. I also find it odd how a game with diverters and magnets everywhere is "back to basics". I think people need to play them all and pick the one they enjoy the most but I find it fascinating people are trying to start a talking point that Wonka is missing mechs.

#20 38 days ago

Played Oktoberfest at TPF and it was cool. Really dig the theme more than I thought I would.

Need to play Wonka to see how I really feel about it. Way over hyped for what it is. The lower price and SHITTY art package is ridiculous. No new features I see that have not been done before....yeah the camera but not a game feature I can PLAY. That’s the game changer I am looking for and it still has not evolved from ANY manufacturer.

#21 38 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

7k delivered is a sweet price. Hmmmmm remind me again, when are those animations getting fixed? Maybe I need to revisit this game haha

Well Delt, I only need to see the beer getting filled up on the screen to satisfy me.

The rest is gravy

-1
#22 38 days ago
Quoted from konjurer:

Honestly I'm not. I really want to like Wonka. I've been pretty harsh on Oktoberfest over in that thread. I'm a value shopper. I just want to get the most fun and bang for my buck. After the reveal I spent some time reviewing the Oktoberfest stream and the feature matrix and I'm kinda shocked at how much more there APPEARS to be in Fest than Wonka. If you think my analysis is wrong I'm all ears.

Wonka shoots better too. I like the playfield on Oktoberfest but there are some aspects that feel clunky or not well planned. My wife played one game of Oktoberfest and was like meh not for her.

-1
#23 38 days ago
Quoted from konjurer:

I think you're likely right. At the end of the day, I want fun for my $$s. And I haven't written off ACNC yet either. I played it Expo and it sucked but the machine was having major issues so I want to give it another chance.

ACNC was working great today. It was cool. Not my cup of tea but some of the shots were very smooth. Others were a bit off. Upper PF was neat and loved the ball lock.

#24 38 days ago

You can fill a game with mechs and stuff and toys. But if they aren’t cohesive, thought out, or well implemented, then what’s the point? Food for thought.

#25 38 days ago

I'm keeping out of the subjective part of this discussion, because 1) I am part of the Oktoberfest design team so it's not fair for me to take sides, and 2) I haven't played Wonka yet. However, I have a few factual clarifications about Oktoberfest...

Quoted from konjurer:

OKTOBER bank of 7 slim line targets in cresent formation

There's also an 8th standup target, full-size, in that bank, labeled as "?".

4 Duck Targets, actually. (Next to scoop, between right ramp/right orbit, next to the bar, and in the pop bumper cluster.)

Oktoberfest also has a captive ball that can sense different strengths of shots, and a drop target protecting a VUK.

I'll also point out that Oktoberfest's Beer Barrel has locks that can be stolen across players and, optionally (by adjustment) across games.

Oktoberfest also comes with a real backglass, and art blades.

Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

did you mention the very steep near impossible left ramp on as a feature on Oktoberfest.

If you're talking about the ramp leading to the roller coaster lock, I can confidently say -- having had an Oktoberfest in my house for two months -- that not only is that ramp quite possible, it can actually be back-handed. It might be that the game you played wasn't set up quite right, or that the flipper coils had heated up after a ton of play at a show. (We will be exploring tweaks to how we drive the flippers to minimize the latter concern.)

#26 37 days ago
Quoted from Waxx:

people are trying to start a talking point that Wonka is missing mechs.

Nobody in this thread said that. Just comparing the mechanical features and I simply made the case that Fest has more mechs and, in my opinion, there's more innovative and interesting mechs in Fest. But admittedly, I haven't played either yet.

#27 37 days ago

Well sadly I don't have any technical coil counts or specs comparisons but after a day playing WW and Octoberfest I gave JJP a check for a new WW. We simply enjoyed every element of WW from animation to game play and it was fun. The animations even though not complete looked like something Disney would have put out and the art was spot on top to bottom. Did it have more wire, coils, or switches? Don't know as we were just having fun playing it which is all I consider in a pinball investment. Don't see that either game was bad just a different choice which is a good thing to see in the pinball market. Just happens that WW was much more fun all around.

-10
#28 37 days ago

Wonka is so much better than Oktoberfest that this whole thread is just plain silly. Seriously, this thread should just be drained. I feel dumber for even commenting TBT. May god have mercy on you soul.

#29 37 days ago

this thread is difficult for me because i cant decide which is better, chocolate or beer?!!!

#30 37 days ago

Wonka’s code is way too early , it has potential but in its current state it is not very good . Last night at MGC the wonkas were completely open ,no one playing them and there was still lines to play the 3 Oktoberfest games .

#31 37 days ago
Quoted from trilogybeer:

Wonka’s code is way too early , it has potential but in its current state it is not very good . Last night at MGC the wonkas were completely open ,no one playing them and there was still lines to play the 3 Oktoberfest games .

That’s surprising. It was the opposite Friday and Saturday at least during the day.

#32 37 days ago

At midnight I could have walked up to any of the five wonkas and played them . There was still lines at Oktoberfest at that point.

#33 37 days ago
Quoted from trilogybeer:

Wonka’s code is way too early , it has potential but in its current state it is not very good . Last night at MGC the wonkas were completely open ,no one playing them and there was still lines to play the 3 Oktoberfest games .

That is because Oktoberfest is an extremely long playing game.

#34 37 days ago

Wonka has nice shots, but the thing I didn't like was the feel. JJP games have this weird feel to them, it's hard to describe it. The flippers feel very different. I've never been able to get over it. The theme also does zero for me. We stood in line at the after show for Octoberfest, the GF loves it. There is definitely a lot going on.

#35 37 days ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

That is because Oktoberfest is an extremely long playing game.

This is true Good point , but the fact is people were still waiting to play them.

#36 37 days ago

I played Octoberfest yesterday at a retailer location. Played 5 or 6 games.
There is a LOT to like and appreciate. Game was pretty smooth and that steep left ramp I made it 80% of the tries.. Had two balls locked up top but never got the corkscrew multi ball started.

Haven't seen or played Wonka yet but I had a choice, most likely would prefer Oktoberfest over the basic Wonka. I just not a WW movie fan..

And I own Houdini, WOZECLE and DialedIN LE...If one of those three had to go first, it would be Houdini.

Do I like Oktoberfest more than Houdini? Can't make that call yet.

Will I be buying an Oktoberfest or WW? Probably not...

Maybe in the used realm one day...

#37 37 days ago

Played at a show today Alice cooper, Wonka le and Oktoberfest.

Oktoberfest is a fun pin for sure but the two ramps are difficult to shoot and the music, call outs and animations are not that good. But for a second Pin a great job done but man, hire someone to do proper animations and call outs.

Wonka is much easier to shoot for sure. Mix of WOZ and DI. Animations are great although the clip use till now didn’t overrun me ...

Alice was a pleasant surprise and by far the best pin from Spooky to date. It finally looks good and shoots good (like a stern )

At the end of the day it is all about how important is a theme for you and the music and call out. Playfield wise they are all great although I see Alice as place three here. The difficult ramps cause Oktoberfest to get second place. Art and looks and display goes to Wonka.

Overall package Wonka would take the price home with me.

However, I also played Munsters LE. Man, what a beautiful pin and the lower playfield is fun to shoot. Theme wise this also better clicks with me as Wonka.

Difficult choice

Lucky enough at current pricing (Alice and Oktoberfest and Wonka are like 9Kusd over here and MunsterLE 11Kusd) I don’t need to stress as they are beyond my pay grade

#38 35 days ago

I have not played Wonka but have one on order . I can honestly say the more I play Oktoberfest the more I enjoy it . Forget the music and focus on the code . There is a lot in this pin to do and it keeps me coming back .
I am glad I bought it . Loved Houdini but with this one I think American Pinball keeps improving .
Did someone say there was a ramp adjustment coming from American Pinball ?
I can hit the Keg lock but it is not easy even with flipper power up . The corkscrew ramp is also steep . I think the way the corkscrew multiball starts is brilliant watching the balls loop around. For the money a great buy . IMO

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#39 34 days ago

Being someone who is also torn on these two, I played them both at MGC last weekend. Wonka's flippers were under powered for sure. I asked about this and they said it's normal for a beta/prototype. So I was underwhelmed at the game play. Flow was good and the art/lightshow were amazing (almost Houdini like IMO). The call outs were a bit repetitive, but not being able to progress well due to the flippers being weak, and being beta code I think it's going to be expected. On the Oktoberfest side, I love this theme...I want to love and buy both games, but can only make one a reality. Here is my concern on Oktoberfest, every machine had an issue of some sort. While I was in line, all three had some minor issue and play had to be stopped while someone serviced them. All very minor issues, and a lot of that is due to quick setup and people beating the hell out of the machines (do you really need to slap the cabinet on every shot?!?!). But I am concerned on the quality control from American Pinball. Feature wise, I was impressed with both. Four flippers vs three, gobstopper with a trap door, bartender with barrel bash and it opens. A lot to compare. I think the story of Wonka and most JJP pins make them different than Sterns and others out there. But bang for buck with flippers, ramps, spinners and a magna save I think the value is in Oktoberfest. Both need refinement in code and a true setup side by side to review further. My two cent novel. Cheers!

#40 34 days ago

Yeah, maybe, but does Oktoberfest have "Kid Multiball"?

#41 34 days ago

I put up this score on Oktoberfest at MGC . I am really liking this game .

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#42 34 days ago

I have not played either one yet but after watching countless videos of game play Oktoberfest is by far a superior game and at least they aren't adding some different powdercoat, shaker motor, and invisaglass then charging another $5000 for it Just my opinion though please don't moderate me again for disagreeing against JJP

#43 34 days ago
Quoted from konjurer:

But admittedly, I haven't played either yet.

So start a thread about it....

#44 34 days ago
Quoted from Captain-Flint:

So start a thread about it....

What's your point? I can't start a conversation about the relative merits of both machines because I haven't played either yet?

#45 34 days ago
Quoted from konjurer:

What's your point? I can't start a conversation about the relative merits of both machines because I haven't played either yet?

I played both... and if you played both you would understand the quality build of Wonka versus Oktoberfest. You would understand the mess that is the artwork, the slow game play, the underwhelming animations, the uninteresting tent modes, and yeah you can keep the 3 ball lock roller coaster. There is no part of Oktoberfest that makes you super excited, and wants you to come back for more. And this is coming from a guy who was so excited about Oktoberfest. I mean I was all in. But after playing it for the first time at MGC. I was crushed. I really got bored after my 7th game. I really really wanted to like it.

Wonka has the 27" screen, the 7" Wonka vision screen. The pretty Rad 3 ball mech lock Wonkavator which stays locked even after your game ends. The Secret machine that works like a charm and is fun to shoot versus that damn barrel in Fest. You get unbelievable Pat Lawlor flow versus the clunky Oktoberfest. 7 magnets, 4 flippers, very beautiful animations (that isn't even finished yet), new smaller LEDs that look great all lit up. It is an absolute blast to play.

It truly isn't even a contest. I am sorry you get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!

#46 34 days ago
Quoted from Captain-Flint:

... It truly isn't even a contest. I am sorry you get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!

So it's Oktoberfest for you too then eh?! Prost!

#47 34 days ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

So it's Oktoberfest for you too then eh?! Prost!

Ha ha ha ha... Hey I am selling a pin that was originally going to fund Oktoberfest... but now that is going towards a Wonka. I am happy with the decision. I hope you guys are happy with Oktoberfest. By no means is it a bad game. I just liked Wonka better. It is better than the Pro edition of Black Knight SOR.

#48 34 days ago

I haven't played Wonka or Octoberfest yet but clearly BKSoR, which I also haven't played, is the better game.

#49 34 days ago
Quoted from konjurer:

What's your point? I can't start a conversation about the relative merits of both machines because I haven't played either yet?

That's correct. In fact it's the definition of stupidity when you create a thread called this game is better than that game and your basis is that you haven't played either?

Wow.

#50 34 days ago
Quoted from konjurer:

Yes, I am trolling just a bit but... Wonka SE looks awesome for the money and some people were quick to take jabs at Oktoberfest over in the Wonka thread. It does look like a great option. Wonka has better art and animations but, feature-to-feature, Fest has has MORE stuff and new ideas in the mechanicals. Prove me wrong.
Here's what's in the Fest:
Ramp that raises and lowers
Rollercoaster Shack physical 3 ball lock
Upper Flipper
180 Ramp that feeds into lock
Beer Barrel physical 3 ball lock
Bar Toy that you bash to open then hit into bar and drop into the toy, Otto head spins (hmmm... functionally similar to the Goobstopper toy)
Two VUKs to some of the most interesting wireforms - clearly more interesting that Wonka wireframes
PROST bank of 5 slim line targets
OKTOBER bank of 7 slim line targets in cresent formation
FEST bank of 4 slim line targets also in cresent formation
3 Duck Targets
Full RGB LEDs on playfield and GI
4 Magnets
MagNab with 3rd button next to right flipper - right hand only mode
3 lanes into a 3 pop bumper nest
6 speaker audio plus 8" sub
I may end up with a BKSoR or a Wonka but I'm not going to dismiss Oktoberfest either - ton of stuff on that playfield and I love the beer and brats atmosphere of the Fest. Having not played it I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see anything revolutionary in Wonka. I think Balcer pushed the envelope just a bit more that Lawlor. Flame on.

Yeah Balcer has more balls than Lawlor between the 2. He really pushed the envelope on Oktoberfest and wasn't afraid to try something entirly new even though it is taking time to make adjustments to the ramps. Wonka looks cool but is the same layout as judge dredd and the "gobstopper"mech looks sort of gimmicky. Granted I havnt played that one but would have been just as happy with drop targets that drop and reveal a hole behind it. The beer barrel seems more interesting to shoot for than the simple Wonkavater. Oktoberfest wont win any awards for art but probably game design.

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