I played both and got the exact opposite impression that you did . Wonka had some type of resin filling in a slot near the lock from something that had obviously been recently changed , ghost images on the inserts that had been covered up with new artwork for changes in rules , modes that were incomplete , didn't make sense ,Not good integration to theme or just not fun , sounds borrowed from WOZ .The movie clips that were used were good but could have been implemented better and the game needs more for sure . The animations created for this game are nothing more than OK . And yeah there is are few clunky shots in the game mainly the shots from the upper right flipper under the Wonka vision . We were clearly playing prototype versions of Wonka at MGC , and if you are happy with what you played there I'm sure you'll be very happy with the finished product , but the game did nothing for me and have no desire to play it again until it is more finished . It may not be a contest to you but it is for others and considering they are in the same price range ( although you don't get the Wonkavator ball lock in the $7,500 version of the game , You have to pay $2,000 more to get that )

Well, I like both, so I'll end up with both. I brought one of the Oktoberfest home with me from mgc. I'm putting it in route tomorrow. Hopefully it will earn decent to let me afford Wonka in a few months when the Limited Edition starts to ship.

I find it humorous how people bash a game when comparing them. Not every game is for every one. Hell, I hate Twilight zone. Should I argue with everyone that rated it high since there opinion isn't the same as mine

Definitely give ACNC another chance. I was very skeptical until I played it at TPF and was surprised how far it has come with the new code. Had a lot of fun on it. Kept going back for more. They had one ACNC in the King Pin booth and two in the Spooky booth. All three games were busy with a line the entire show. Planning to pick up a used one for a friend next week. Pretty excited about getting a chance to play it more in a home setting.

On the flip side, was very excited to play Oktoberfest at TPF for the first time. On the few different machines I played it was very difficult to get it up the ramp on all of them. Some say it could be a voltage issue with so many games sharing AC power at the event.

I can say that compared to ACNC, the art / animations were not nearly as good for me personally. I really didn't have a natural desire to want to play Oktoberfest more after a few games. If I don't ever play it again, I don't think I will be sad about that. It has a lot going on, but didn't do it for me as much as I wanted it to.

Looking forward to playing Wonka. Layout looking good. Not a huge fan of the art, but can't wait to flip it and see where the code goes.

Yes, until they agree with you or cry "uncle".

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and entitled to spend $7000 plus dollars any way you want.

However let me put it to you this way... all pinball games get boring after a while. I think WOZ might be the game that now gets played the least yet still never comes up for sale and when they do they get top dollar and sell within minutes.

Now we see Houdini’s coming up for sale and they fetching about 5500 to 5800 dollars. Houdini is a better theme than Oktoberfest, the artwork on the game looks better, and it comes across as a licensed theme. October fest might be a more fun game than Houdini but in the long run Houdini will keep more value than Oktoberfest because of the relation to an American Icon.

You will buy Octoberfest today for 7400 and you will sell it a year from now for a 2k loss... because of the theme, you’ll lose a great deal of value as the game ages. Whereas I think Wonka is a game that you might sell for less than you pay but it won’t be much. With Wonka you cal sell the game locally on facebook or craigslist and just like for example GOT you’ll fine a fan of the movie/TV show.

Oktoberfest will probably only be hunted down by opportunist pinball buyers. Meaning prepare to take a bath.

WOZ resells awesome because people who don’t buy pinballs will buy it because of the theme.

In the long run lets say 3 years from now Oktoberfest probably sells for about $4000 and Wonka will still sell for 7k plus.

On every single level Wonka is the better investment if you’re looking to buy a new pinball game. Hands down.

I agree Oktoberfest is a fun game, but the artwork and theme are confusing, cgi graphics are average or below average, and the theme is a D at best... I agree the game gets an A for fun but that has nothing to do with what it will be worth after another 6 to 8 new pinballs go up for sale over the next 12 months.

Yes the Wonkas had a nice steady line during show hours . I did clarify 2 posts later the timeframe I was referring to .

At midnight I could have walked up to any of the five wonkas and played them . There was still lines at Oktoberfest at that point.

My statement was not any sort of fabrication at all , Just needed clarification as to what time it was when I saw the open Wonkas and lines at Oktoberfest and I made that clear 2 posts later.

Dammit man - you've gone and sold me on Oktoberfest yet again! AP should be paying you commissions!

Looking more and more forward to owning one!!!

I think the price loss Oktoberfest depends on where you live. California,florida etc maybe. In the midwest it will be sought after greatly in the german beer drinking cities. If there arent many made and non pinball players at bars etc just find out about it years down the road I can see it being a fortune. Wonka will hold its value but will not be as rare.

Oktoberfest is a great game, it just lacks in the animations and sound. Love to own one.

My friend Jeremy of Pinball Mayhem did a lot of filming at MGC. he has posted a Wonka video

https://www.facebook.com/PinballMayhem/videos/1491289784341571/

I suspect that he will be uploading Oktoberfest soon BKsor is posted

Wonka is a great theme but the game play looks and sounds like a cross between WOZ and DI. Two of my least favorite games. Not a huge fan of the octoberfest theme, but the game looks more fun and much more bang for the buck. AP has really scored a win.

I can't wait until people start rating games that haven't even been announced yet.

I've played both. I like WONKA better.

I have only played oktoberfesr, but I liked it a lot. Wonka looks nice, but...as several have said already...I wasn't blown away by it. I also have heard that wonka could use more coding.

Having said that, I woukd have to give oktoberfest the early lead. That could change, however.

Im sure both games are fun. We are really blessed to be in the midst of the 2nd golden age of pinball.

My wallets safe. I would not buy any of them.

It's missing "custom" mechs things that haven't been done before. Everything in Wonka has been done to death, screen on star wars and even Pat's gobstopper (on Oktoberfest). Wonka has no drops no real bash toy no levitating monkey mech no pop up goblins no awesome hologram spinners or drones, no rocking upper playfield ("cool shit"). I'll play it eventually and decide. I'm not dissing Wonka, just calling it like I see it. magnets alone and some saucers is back to basics.

I understand and appreciate the sentiment but “balls” don’t make good playfield layouts. “Balls” don’t help a poorly designed upper flipper shot work. “Balls” don’t interest me as much as a layout with great geometry and overall design even if it has plenty of elements I’ve seen before.

There aren’t a lot of surprises in a Steve Ritchie layout but I don’t care, I almost always like the layouts. Same with Lawlor.

AP is going to have to get layouts right if they are really going to be able to hook players and buyers and so far they are 0-2.

Sounds like you havent flipped either of these pins.

Given what you said your criteria is for purchasing one, I really recommend you play them both first.

I like Oktoberfest. I played it at the reveal at expo, tpf, and mgc. It plays slower than even Wonka does. Lots of waiting for the ball to get back to you. It's a cool layout. Side by side, it's not really close. Wonka shoots better, quality of JJP, and looks great (although if we are talking standard you could go either way).

Maybe it's just me, but when I play I look at the playfield and the backglass display. I dont look at the side of the game. From the front and everything you see playing, Wonka is gorgeous.

I played both machines and my first impression is:

For the moment Wonka plays a little worthier and Oktoberfest is a little funnier. Bottomline I liked both games, but don´t understand this really boring rocktheme from Oktoberfest, which has nothing to do with the music played in Oktoberfest tents. Btw the word "FÜD" (Frenzy) doesn´t exist in Germany, that´s funny somehow. Does this word have a meaning in the US?

With the final codes both games will find a place in Pinside´s Top 100.

No idea what fud is supposed to stand for. Agreed on the music, bad choice on AP’s part.

Fudd beer is the most popular beer in Shelbyville which is the direct rival of Springfield’s Duff beer.

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Gameplay alone (removing sounds and art) I have to admit I had more fun playing Oktoberfest at Allentown
but i only had 2 short games on Wonka - with more time on both machines this opinion is subject to change

I can't think of anything more boring than a game based on a beer festival....so to make an interesting and fun game from something so dull is a testament to the talent involved. The Wonka team didn't need to work as hard having been gifted a home run licence, and they delivered a pleasing but familiar game.

Neither game blows me away but OFT has a more interesting design.

Have you played either? Because if you haven’t this thread is stupid.

Safe to say... you need more time on them. Wonka is so much better!

Give okturdbeerfest a year and it will be selling for sub5k just like houdini does.

I thought Oktoberfest was great at expo, got better at Texas and I didnt get to play in allentown.i would like to own one for sure.

Wonka will be great too, give it sometime, the JJP crew will do a great job.

Not so sure about that , Wonka could be a better game at some point , but the Wonkas that I played at MGC were not .I did play more games on Wonka than Oktoberfest but I enjoyed Oktoberfest much more and would like to own one . Wonka I will play it again in like 6 months and see If it’s better , I know it will be but what I will really be looking for is something to capture my interest . Wonka is easier to shoot for sure (but easy doesn’t really do it for me ) I could combo the ramps on Wonka all day long but what’s the point ?give me a reason to shoot something and make it interesting this is what Oktoberfest does so much better than Wonka . I’m sure Wonka will be a better more interesting game 6 months or a year from now than it is now .But will it be better than Oktoberfest? Time will tell and maybe I will change my mind but at this point Oktoberfest is the clear winner between the two for me .

I'm another member of the Oktoberfest club. It kills Wonka for me. Wonka is just same old rehashed Lawlor trying to reclaim his glory days. The ship has sailed. Oktoberfest is the new kid in town and he's winning.

American pinball is liable to go out of business and i know people who are afraid to buy a Oktoberfest because of that. and i played it at allentown with low expectations and they weren’t met. the game felt super clunky when i played it. the flippers don’t feel nice and the game isn’t too fast. the art it absolutely dreadful. the header is ugly in the shape of it. the animations are terrible as-well. the inserts look really bad and the light show wasn’t good. i wouldn’t be in for one and would easily take a Willy Wonka SE or a BKSOR premium for the same price.

mjr

I don't think so. They are building for a good future. New building. Two lines for them. One line for other people or projects.

They plan to be around.

LTG : )

I tend to agree. While NO company will ever make a pin for Everyone API seems to be doing the right things with a deep bench of talent and commitment to see it through. No company can be expected to hit grand slams right out of the gate but they seem to be well set for a long future.

I weighed this pretty heavily when considering Houdini (which I love) and after seeing that most of the electronics in the game are P-ROC or relatively easy to source my fears were assuaged. The fact the developers are so active here also helps as I think they would continue on with support / development if they could. Any company could go out of business and pinball has certainly seen that happen but with the backing API has I feel like even if they did shut down the pinball operations their contract manufacturing side could still produce enough stock of the custom bits that owners of their games would be in pretty good shape. That said I sure hope they're around for the long haul because I like their games and what they're doing, Oktoberfest is a lot of fun and I could absolutely see me owning one.

I am glad some people like Oktoberfest and I hope there are enough sales to keep AP afloat.

For me, I find the layout very fun and different. Unfortunately the fun ends there. The upper ramp shot is really bad (not sure if just flipper issue, but appears to be the geometry combined with flipper strength). The code is really drawn out (so much talking and so little shooting) and too PC for the theme.

I actually think they have a basis for a good game, but the polish is not going to bring it together. Maybe that is my disappointment as I had high hopes for this one but I knew it was over once the monkey grabbing a butt got scrubbed.

it was supposed to be on ghostbusters but was replaced by center target and captive ball

mjr

I have about 30 plays on Oktoberfest and I thoroughly enjoy it. The left ramp is easy; the right ramp is challenging but not more than it should be. Being challenging keeps me coming back. I love the them and art. The music was not a problem at all; I expected it to be annoying after watching streams. The animation will not attract anyone to this game, but I think they were going for what they got. Finally, there are so many unique aspects to this game that it may get me to pull the trigger on it.

I initially liked Oktoberfest better than ACNC, but after playing each between 20-30 times I decided that the animation and music was so much better in ACNC that I think I'd rank it a little higher now. In any event, the takeaway for me was that I cannot judge a game based off a stream; I have to play it. I was thoroughly disappointed with Oktoberfest after watching, but love it after playing.

Oh yes that happens, looks totally different on stream vs playing it!

I played both at Allentown. Both good games, in different ways. Oktoberfest playfield is terrific, with some cool toys and ramps. Playfield art kinda sucks and animations are disappointing. Shots seem fine. I only played one game. I like the theme and the overall vibe. A nice “world under glass” In this game. The art/animation would not dissuade me from buying, but I’m confident better art would result in higher sales #s.

Wonka playfield should have more toys for all the hype, but the layout is solid, and I think if the movie assets are used correctly, the theme could be awesome. Wonka is a nice looking game, but the art is pretty tame. I played the standard, and the cabinet Art was much better than we saw in reveal pics. Did JJP change it?

These two games, combined with Munsters Premium, really demonstrate the nice variety in the hobby right now. Both visually and in terms of design. I’m still waiting for someone to hit the grand slam though. These games are solid doubles. Will Deeproot deliver?

For god’s sake will a major player please make the Matrix, and do it right?

Oktoberfest is the best game for a home owner. It is chalenging and very deep, if you want to be a better player this is the clear choice. Wonka is fun but the upper right action is blinding and the rules are not modes but confusing? I'll trade animations for good game play anyday.

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Fyi the Wonka rating

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I’m a big fan of JJP games but Wonka is the one I really don’t get and don’t like.

JJP means great the integration, but not this time. JJP also means deep rulesets, not this time either.

Overall and after at least 50 plays, there isn’t much to do and much to come back for.

I haven’t played Oktoberfest yet but I’m definitely looking forward to it.

American Pinball to me has proved they have the most enjoyable code in pinball - both Houdini and Oktoberfest are loaded with lots of modes, moments, mini wizard modes, and fun multiballs. Unfortunately the layouts just don’t shoot well enough to me to make me want to own one just yet. I wish those guys coded other games out there whose layouts I enjoy more.