Sucks.

It's all about having money in hand, no job to worry about rushing away from at any given moment, and access to a pin haulin' vehicle.

He actually said he had an offer on it for $1K and if I wanted it I could have it for $1,050 if I came today. I said no thanks I am not interested in driving almost 4hrs to get it..

this thread's bummin' me out...

small enough community in MI... You guys should be able to out this guy with a little detective work.

Yep. The fact that it's a "Champagne" edition should make it easy to track.

Chalk up to lessons learned. I've learned to always take more cash than what you and the seller agreed on because it's almost inevitable that someone has offered more money.

But even if you find this buyer, you really don't have any beef with him. You just don't know the story, and you never will except the one thing that's probably safe is to point the finger at the seller.
For all you know the buyer just called, asked to come look at a game, showed up, and that was it. You don't know if the seller mentioned he had someone coming, already promised, etc.

So the buyer got a game, leave it at that. The seller did you wrong.

Wrong. If the seller is that kind of a tool, I'd rather not do business with them in the first place.

Anyone buying a game from me does not have to worry that I'll jack up the price once they arrive.

Show some honor and integrity. Be a man of your word. If I say that the deal is done, that's all there is to it.

Pete

If I ever sell, other than at a show, I would be more worried about the buyer trying to low ball once there............
Hard for me at least to judge a pin by pictures!

Totally feel for the OP. Seller got greedy and broke his word, it'll come back to bite him someday I believe.

Take away is: Don't count your chickens before they're hatched. The table wasn't sold to you, no matter what agreement was made over email/phone until money and machine change hands it isn't 'sold'.

Yes, there are plenty of jerks out there, but if you are a straight shooter there is a good chance that you'll do better in the long run. Even if you don't, your integrity and reputation are worth more than any pin. Plus, you'll make a lot more friends and have a better support network in this hobby.

Recently sold my WH20. Delivered it at TPF. It was one of the better looking ones and it was also the cheapest. I never even entertained the thought of trying to get more for it. I enjoyed repairing it and playing it for half a year and I made a few hundred bucks. I did well and gave someone a good deal when I got rid of it. There are still a lot of people like this in the pinball community. We just don't always need a vent for our elation like we do for our frustration. Keep your head up OP, good things come around sooner or later.

Sounds like the seller's definition of "he hounded me" is "he kept offering me more and more money."

"Chicken of the Cave" sir!

WTF?
I'd be going home, cash in hand, no game, pissed off. Not going to pay more than an agreed deal.

Its never a good idea to lock in a deal over the phone...

especially from a seller perspective. people play games and you will block out other buyers waiting for them to show up.

that is even if they do show up....

then when they do alot are tire kickers or want to complain about every nick and scratch and knock off value, its a total waste of time and some dont even show up or they show up hours late.

I believe in the first come first serve principle. Let a buyer come out, play the game and pay. Best way to do it.

I know most on here would lock in a deal and follow thru with no problems, but craigslist is different and there are alot of funny people out there.

just my 2 cents and this is based from experience.

It's never a done deal till its loaded on the truck. That being said, I've had a couple sellers push my buttons recently.. Remember, It's just pinball.

I have had this happen a few times. It sucks, but now I do not believe a game is mine until it is in my truck.

Anytime I have somebody offer me more money after I have told them it's sold I just put their name in the "never to sell list". I think it's sneaky snaky to try and pull a game out from under somebody.

What people always say is true, it's not a done deal until it's in your hands. I only trust a very few people to hold to their words. A friend told me to start pushing people to take a deposit if I was agreeing to buy a game from them that I couldn't get immediately. I've pissed off a few people by insisting they take some money from me when we agree to a transaction, even if it's just $50. They get bent and say I don't trust them and things like that, but in a way it's business....

LOL.

weather it's cars or games I have made deals over the phone to sell and get either full asking offer or atlease more than what we agreed on. I say every time you are number (blank) in line and I will call you if it falls through or if it sells I will send the buyer your info in the rare case he/she wants to make a super quick profit. I know I end up losing money but my DB rating stays a bit lower

For me I found I contact buyer and leave immediately. I don't setup a time later, I go right now.

I am not second guessing you. I called him sunday morning and that is what he told me. He kept my number and was going to call me if the deals fell through. Not sure the story but $850 was way ro cheap for that game. I suspect someone offered him 1400 to take it away. We will find out who it is when it shows up on cl or ebay for $4k

Edit. I like jamespin the seller prolly changed the story between the time I called and jamespin did the deal. Regardless the seller is a complete prick!

If somebody is selling a game too cheep, then it is in the car and pick up imediately

Who posted one for sale on CL in Grand Rapids MI. right about the time this thread started?

grandrapids.craigslist.org link

((from CL ad)) "The game is still boring and turd-like just the regular edition"

Wow. That's some review.
-mof

I agree with you. I sell for what I agree with the buyer on but when u deal with non pinheads who are selling a machine on CL they most always get bombarded with offers after the deal. Would rather pay a little bit more and still get a deal than miss out on it.

That sounds great, but in reality the saying is that you shouldn't cut off your nose to spite your face.

If you had a deal with someone to buy their HUO Tron LE for $3500.00 and you showed up and they said "sorry, someone else offered me $4k, if you want it for that, it's yours", walking away from that deal out of "principle" probably isn't the smartest thing to do. And chances are the seller didn't have a clue to begin with anyway.

You guys up in michigan are an interesting crew.

I'd be going home with a pin, satisfied as long it was still a good deal, game loaded up in the back of my truck, and happy. Life is too short to be pissed off over something so trivial.

Hmmm. Here's the ad:

----------
Williams 1987 FIRE Champagne Edition pinball machine - NICE (Grand Rapids)

1987 Williams Fire pinball machine. This is the RARE 'Champagne Edition'! The game is still boring and turd-like just the regular edition, but the Champagne Edition looks like a beaut with gorgeous brass plated accents.

I don't have this in-hand yet, but it should be arriving this afternoon. If I haven't sold it by the time it gets here, I'll get some pictures here. I'm told it's absolutely beautiful, and remember it's rare!

Get in touch with offer (cash) and get this before it's gone. Again.
----------

I think it's interesting how they claim they "don't have this in-hand yet ...". This could very well be the same game, and they are just trying to throw people off the scent.

Wait...are you (RobT) telling me that if you and the seller agreed to the game for $3500, and you showed up with $3500 in hand ready to go, and once you arrived at the seller's home - and the seller jacked the price up to $4000 - you'd be all right with him breaking his word and pay up to the new price of $4000.....?

Just asking.

I don't think he implied that he'd be cool with it, but he's also not an idiot. A Tron for $4,000 is better than no Tron LE at all.

If the game being purchased was Tron LE (or BBB or MM), then yes, any of us would grudgingly pay the $4K and load the game as quick as possible and get the heck out of there. (Of course, you wouldn't take advantage of anyone and do this at a yard sale.)

If the guy was that willing to sell it out from under you after he had agreed to sell it to you and refused a deposit, there's a good chance it wasn't as advertised anyway. Seems pretty clear that the seller had a fair degree of "moral flexibility" and refused your deposit so he could trawl for better offers. Sounds like he got one. Maybe he's on hard times and needed the money or maybe he's just a douche. Hard to say... It hasn't been established the buyer even knew. Might have simply been told the price had gone up when he called. Who knows.

EDIT: I'm talking about the OP's situation here, not the Tron LE hypothetical. Just sayin'.

For a Tron LE?

You are damned right I would be "all right" with it. And I would be damn excited about leaving there with a HUO Tron LE for $4k.

Why the hell would I be upset about that??

Some people just don't see the big picture I guess.

Actually I would be cool with it.

If that happened, it just tells me that the guy didn't know the value to begin with. I don't see why I should be upset with him under those circumstances.

Well, you are a lawyer so not a surprise.

0911_saul_goodman01.jpg

I'm not following your logic. (Forget it's a Tron LE) As a buyer, if you have a deal with a seller for $3,500 for a game and when you show up he says it's now $4,000, that's ok and you'd shell out the extra $500??? I'd walk away too. I don't bring extra money to the transaction.

But the situation with the OP is that the game was gone. He didn't have a chance to get the game for an inflated nonagreed price.

I've had one situation where I sold a game to someone and before they arrived I was offered $600 more. Out of integrity and principal l sold the game to the original buyer for the previously agreed on price.

The seller owes you more than the lame excuse he provided.
I'd like to know how many miles you drove before finding out it had been sold. Surely you called him right before leaving the house, or soon after...?

While I'm a firm believer in the equity of the deal, I also think a deal has to be conscionable. If someone was trying to sell me a Tron LE for $4K, I'd make it plain it's worth more like 8K-10K and give them a chance to re-think the price point. Paying on the low-end I'm fine with, but at less than 50% fair market value I'd have reservations.

_{Post edited by swf127: Cleaned up the wording a bit.}

Um, the big picture I see is someone quoting you one price and then jacking the price up once you arrive, knowing he can take advantage of you if you pay up.

So, let's take Tron out of the picture and just make it "Pin X". Say it's a pin that you're ok with paying $3500 for, but that price is on the cusp of what you're willing to pay for it. Then he totally jacks the price up right in front of you. You going to feel the same way?

That's what I was getting at. Yeah, sure, of course if it was something like MB, MM pre-2014, AFM, or any other A-list title - of course nearly anyone would pay up.

What I normally do when I see a pinball machine I want for sale on Craig's List (or anywhere else) I send an email something like this. "If your machine is not already spoken for I would be interested in it and would be willing to pay between $--- and $--- for it". Then I make them a "fair" offer in the price range pin is worth to me depending on condition.

Sometimes I offer less than asking price - other times I have offered as much as 4 or 5 times the asking price. I base my offers on realistic prices for a title. I believe in being fair with sellers and am willing to pay a fair price for machines I want to buy. I am sure at times sellers thing I am an ass for low prices I offer on some machines (but that is all their machine is worth to me) and at other times I have had sellers that were shocked I offered double or triple their asking price.

I sleep well at night knowing I have been fair with every seller. I don't doubt there are times sellers have had machines promised to other people then backed out of a deal when I made my offer. But all I did was make them a "fair" offer on something they had listed too cheap. If seller backs out of a deal they had made already that is on them not on me.

PS - I don't live anywhere near your Fire so it wasn't me!

I concur 100%

If I was the OP here, I would have no reason to believe anything the seller told me after he didn't keep his end of the deal. Trying to blame his greed on a third party only makes him more of a DB. IMO